/tg/Station 13

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I just want something that is useful for when you have about 0-20 damage that is easy to use and make.

CPTANT wrote:I just want something that is useful for when you have about 0-20 damage that is easy to use and make.

i have decided to retroactively implement your suggestion through irony magic: you can now quickly heal small amounts of health via eating warm donkpockets with omnizine, healthy foods with vitamin, food in general with nutriment, and a new chem called 'granibitaluri' that tops off low amounts of health, included by default as 60% of most mixes in medbay such as aiuri/libital sprays, syriniver syringes, and normal patches.

also libital and aiuri are excellent for small damage healing, a single patch or spray will never harm you enough to do anything of any real amount, unless you like, forgot you welded open 3 walls before taking an aiuri pill

Please for the love of God, increase the healing rate on tend wounds, it is agonisingly slow even in ideal conditions

Anonmare wrote:Please for the love of God, increase the healing rate on tend wounds, it is agonisingly slow even in ideal conditions

Yell at sci to upgrade your shit. It goes plenty fast enough for me. The only time it's slow is if you're trying to fix 150+ wounds with basic tend wounds.

carlarc wrote:

CPTANT wrote:I just want something that is useful for when you have about 0-20 damage that is easy to use and make.

i have decided to retroactively implement your suggestion through irony magic: you can now quickly heal small amounts of health via eating warm donkpockets with omnizine, healthy foods with vitamin, food in general with nutriment, and a new chem called 'granibitaluri' that tops off low amounts of health, included by default as 60% of most mixes in medbay such as aiuri/libital sprays, syriniver syringes, and normal patches.

also libital and aiuri are excellent for small damage healing, a single patch or spray will never harm you enough to do anything of any real amount, unless you like, forgot you welded open 3 walls before taking an aiuri pill

Food in general pretty sucks for healing. With the exception of warm donkpockets yes.

Granibitaluri is way too hard to craft for something that has such abysmal healing. I requires several heating steps and 4 layers of subcrafting.

Anonmare wrote:Please for the love of God, increase the healing rate on tend wounds, it is agonisingly slow even in ideal conditions

Ideal conditions would be experimental tend wounds with alien surgery tools, which I can assure you is quite fast.

CPTANT wrote:

carlarc wrote:

CPTANT wrote:I just want something that is useful for when you have about 0-20 damage that is easy to use and make.

i have decided to retroactively implement your suggestion through irony magic: you can now quickly heal small amounts of health via eating warm donkpockets with omnizine, healthy foods with vitamin, food in general with nutriment, and a new chem called 'granibitaluri' that tops off low amounts of health, included by default as 60% of most mixes in medbay such as aiuri/libital sprays, syriniver syringes, and normal patches.

also libital and aiuri are excellent for small damage healing, a single patch or spray will never harm you enough to do anything of any real amount, unless you like, forgot you welded open 3 walls before taking an aiuri pill

Food in general pretty sucks for healing. With the exception of warm donkpockets yes.

Granibitaluri is way too hard to craft for something that has such abysmal healing. I requires several heating steps and 4 layers of subcrafting.

Granibitaluri isnt supposed to be made, it is a filler chem for the meds in medkits so people dont use more of the cat2 chems than needed. before the dosages were too much and people ended up going blind or killing their liver after using 2 patches.

Seriously please rename chems back to what they used to be called, the new names are just stupid.

Dr_bee wrote:

CPTANT wrote:

carlarc wrote:

CPTANT wrote:I just want something that is useful for when you have about 0-20 damage that is easy to use and make.

i have decided to retroactively implement your suggestion through irony magic: you can now quickly heal small amounts of health via eating warm donkpockets with omnizine, healthy foods with vitamin, food in general with nutriment, and a new chem called 'granibitaluri' that tops off low amounts of health, included by default as 60% of most mixes in medbay such as aiuri/libital sprays, syriniver syringes, and normal patches.

also libital and aiuri are excellent for small damage healing, a single patch or spray will never harm you enough to do anything of any real amount, unless you like, forgot you welded open 3 walls before taking an aiuri pill

Food in general pretty sucks for healing. With the exception of warm donkpockets yes.

Granibitaluri is way too hard to craft for something that has such abysmal healing. I requires several heating steps and 4 layers of subcrafting.

Granibitaluri isnt supposed to be made, it is a filler chem for the meds in medkits so people dont use more of the cat2 chems than needed. before the dosages were too much and people ended up going blind or killing their liver after using 2 patches.

Well that only makes it even less fitting to my description, doesn't it?

CPTANT wrote:

Anonmare wrote:Please for the love of God, increase the healing rate on tend wounds, it is agonisingly slow even in ideal conditions

Ideal conditions would be experimental tend wounds with alien surgery tools, which I can assure you is quite fast.

I refer to the basic tend wounds with normal tools, which is what you'll be doing 90% of the time because operating tables+computers are at a premium with space, and willingless to make more, being the limiting factor.

The basic tend wounds surgery only heals 5 brute per successful interaction (on unclothed patients, clothed patients only heal a measly 2.5. Dead people heal even LESS so it's often not even good for getting people in defib range.) which is far too low in my honest opinion. Bruise packs and ointment heal more than that and don't take so much faffing about so of course nobody wants to willingly submit to the surgery.

To be perfectly honest, I have half a mind to remove the healing loss from clothing and up the heals to 10. It should be competitive with bruise packs and ointments, especially if we're removing the latter.

Anonmare wrote: Snip

In one of the rounds I played recently as doctor, our captain got shot to hell. He was brought to medical and I decided to do the healing/defib
because cloner was kind of busy. Captain had 200 Brute damage; i declothed, put on stasis bed, started bruise surgery.

I took easily 10 minutes getting it down to less than 100. Now, after this I tried defibbing, and it didn't work: His heart was too damaged.
I had to wait for another perosn to pass me a replacement heart from science, move him to the other surgery area that had all the tools,
replace heart, defib again. After this, blood was too low and he was constantly suffocating; had to go grab an A- blood pack and use the IV.
(The clothes were on the way so getting the drag on the captain to get teh IV working was a disaster). After blood was restored, finally cap
was good again. I took half an hour to heal one guy from death. He was, understandably, VERY angry.

The method of surgery is way too slow. Had I been more careful, I would have done the blood earlier, but I needed him on the stasis
bed because of brute damage. i couldn't do all the steps I wanted at once, and I am glad that some other guy was able to go to sci
to get another heart, if not cap would have been there for far longer. My decision to avoid cloning was, in any respect, a bad one,
and not only that, but it clogged medical with people waiting. Have you all been in a similar situation?

Tend wounds is good when upgraded but it's a pain to get operating computers into areas where you want to do surgery. I feel like a smart idea might be for medical to construct up hallway operating tables and computers to utilize if you want to quickly treat people.

I'm actually pretty happy even with baseline tend wounds. It's really good for recovering bodies for defibbing.

Calomel wrote:

Anonmare wrote: Snip

In one of the rounds I played recently as doctor, our captain got shot to hell. He was brought to medical and I decided to do the healing/defib
because cloner was kind of busy. Captain had 200 Brute damage; i declothed, put on stasis bed, started bruise surgery.

I took easily 10 minutes getting it down to less than 100. Now, after this I tried defibbing, and it didn't work: His heart was too damaged.
I had to wait for another perosn to pass me a replacement heart from science, move him to the other surgery area that had all the tools,
replace heart, defib again. After this, blood was too low and he was constantly suffocating; had to go grab an A- blood pack and use the IV.
(The clothes were on the way so getting the drag on the captain to get teh IV working was a disaster). After blood was restored, finally cap
was good again. I took half an hour to heal one guy from death. He was, understandably, VERY angry.

The method of surgery is way too slow. Had I been more careful, I would have done the blood earlier, but I needed him on the stasis
bed because of brute damage. i couldn't do all the steps I wanted at once, and I am glad that some other guy was able to go to sci
to get another heart, if not cap would have been there for far longer. My decision to avoid cloning was, in any respect, a bad one,
and not only that, but it clogged medical with people waiting. Have you all been in a similar situation?

This isn't a failure of the system, this is you failing in triage. You didn't have upgraded/experimental TW and/or tools, didn't have replacement organs on hand for the clearly damaged heart(medical scanner tells you the state of organs), then proceeded to try to fix his body on a stasis bed rather than a surgical table. At that point, the most effective method of resuscitation would have been to use the cloner or botany pod, given that you were underequipped to deal with the issue normally.

Sometimes you can't solve every problem the way you want to, that's just tough shit and part of this game.

Sandshark808 wrote:

Anonmare wrote:This is off topic but I want to talk about it. Another thing I feel that medbay suffers from is the dominance of the patch. Patches are just the best means of getting chemicals into somebody, no ifs or buts. Patches aren't blocked by clothing (like pills and syringes are) and can hold more units than bottles and pills. In addition, in the time it takes to apply a patch, a syringe can only inject 5u while a patch dumps its load like a pill does.
I'm probably gonna make more enemies but I feel each application method should be different and distinct enough to make using them worthwhile.

Back when we had trekchem there was a distinct difference between in-blood and on-skin applications of drugs, where some had to be applied on skin with a medical sprayer to avoid ODing people. It's almost like the chem changes weren't very well thought out.

name the chems. Stypic/SS used patches, charcoal used syringe.

I don't think I added any patch-specific chems but I did keep thia (syriniver) which requires injection.

TW (((recently))) got buffed, when you say it's low do you mean post that buff?

Cobby wrote:

Sandshark808 wrote:

Anonmare wrote:This is off topic but I want to talk about it. Another thing I feel that medbay suffers from is the dominance of the patch. Patches are just the best means of getting chemicals into somebody, no ifs or buts. Patches aren't blocked by clothing (like pills and syringes are) and can hold more units than bottles and pills. In addition, in the time it takes to apply a patch, a syringe can only inject 5u while a patch dumps its load like a pill does.
I'm probably gonna make more enemies but I feel each application method should be different and distinct enough to make using them worthwhile.

Back when we had trekchem there was a distinct difference between in-blood and on-skin applications of drugs, where some had to be applied on skin with a medical sprayer to avoid ODing people. It's almost like the chem changes weren't very well thought out.

name the chems. Stypic/SS used patches, charcoal used syringe.

I don't think I added any patch-specific chems but I did keep thia (syriniver) which requires injection.

I seem to recall charcoal also working in pill form, and syptic/SS working as pills/injections as well for healing over time instead of the instant patch heal.

deedubya wrote:
I seem to recall charcoal also working in pill form, and syptic/SS working as pills/injections as well for healing over time instead of the instant patch heal.

You recall wrong for syptic and silver sulfide. pills and injections would cause toxin damage and would disgust the patient.

Charcoal was also changed before its removal to only be administer-able orally, which was a good change. injecting it would turn it into harmless and useless carbon.

Bring back old charcoal. multiver is not fun to use, and the pills of it you get standard only heal a whopping 2 toxin damage. Charcoals downside was that it purged all chems. If you reduce the toxin healing to .5 or 1 a tick it will be a good overall treatment but not something you want to use for major damage.

Dr_bee wrote:

deedubya wrote:
I seem to recall charcoal also working in pill form, and syptic/SS working as pills/injections as well for healing over time instead of the instant patch heal.

You recall wrong for syptic and silver sulfide. pills and injections would cause toxin damage and would disgust the patient.

Charcoal was also changed before its removal to only be administer-able orally, which was a good change. injecting it would turn it into harmless and useless carbon.

Bring back old charcoal. multiver is not fun to use, and the pills of it you get standard only heal a whopping 2 toxin damage. Charcoals downside was that it purged all chems. If you reduce the toxin healing to .5 or 1 a tick it will be a good overall treatment but not something you want to use for major damage.

Just give it a low OD threshold where it makes you puke and purge your chems.

Sandshark808 wrote:

Dr_bee wrote:

deedubya wrote:
I seem to recall charcoal also working in pill form, and syptic/SS working as pills/injections as well for healing over time instead of the instant patch heal.

You recall wrong for syptic and silver sulfide. pills and injections would cause toxin damage and would disgust the patient.

Charcoal was also changed before its removal to only be administer-able orally, which was a good change. injecting it would turn it into harmless and useless carbon.

Bring back old charcoal. multiver is not fun to use, and the pills of it you get standard only heal a whopping 2 toxin damage. Charcoals downside was that it purged all chems. If you reduce the toxin healing to .5 or 1 a tick it will be a good overall treatment but not something you want to use for major damage.

Just give it a low OD threshold where it makes you puke and purge your chems.

charcoal not having an OD was a problem as well. considering you could just shove 100 units of it in you and be basically immune to poisons. capping the amount of damage it can heal would be a good change as well. making activated charcoal the method for healing toxin damage under 20, for minor exposure to plasma and the like.

Can we get an increase in the amount of actual healing chem instead gran-whateverthefucktherestofthespaghettinameis. When I use a medkit feels like I have to use like every patch to heal my damage because theres like 2 units of actual healing chem in it.

medkits are for healing small bruises and cuts mate

I've used the C2 chems to an extensive degree and here's my thoughts:

Libital is fine, the organ damage is manageable, especially if properly diluted.
Helbital is too incredibly niche to be useful, it only heals brute but it only does so effectively if the patient has non-brute damage, and if they don't it deals toxins. I've had my doctors use it and they agree, it's useless in all but the most situational of situations, there's almost never a time where someone has both brute and enough of the other kinds of damage without being dead to make its use worthwhile.
Aiuri, see Libital
Granibitaluriis mostly fine but it has way too many steps to make for its effect. Would rather just dilute medicine in water than use it as my dilutent.
Multiver is kind of trash, nobody uses it if they have a choice. It's self-purging, which means you need to use an entire bottle to get any worthwhile effect. I know you're supposed to use it with other medicines but why would I waste more medicine on unnecessary treatments? Remove its purging, both self and others, keep its benefit from combining treatments and it'd see a lot more use, especially with cryo where that is the default goal.
Fiziver is much better than Multiver but the OD threshold makes it tricky to use in a pure state. Diluted, it's much more manageable, no complaints with it.
Syriniver is a very powerful anti-toxin, even better than pentetic, but trying to use it outside of a diluted IV is a fool's errand. Would see more use if medbay had some IV bags roundstart as the secret of plastic making seems to be lost to time.
Tirimol is something I only saw used once, surpisingly. best combined with a stimulant like epinephrine or the likes as a dilutant to counteract the stamina damage. Poor mid-combat use, great stabilizer for critical condition.
Convermol is something that desperately needs to be diluted in the O2 kit syringes. A full syringe for someone with severe O2 loss inflicts a major amount of tox damage. Would recommend replacing them, and mediborg's chem, with Tirimol as these syringes are potentially fatally toxic to a high O2 loss sufferer.

Trophazole is fine, decent for low brute by itself. Best used as pills for the tide to munch one between mouthful of donk pocket. Not recommended for doctor use.
Rhigoxane is good, but its additional beneficial effect will see rare use as vapour applicators aren't widespread and without research potentially non-existent. Recommend tiny hand sprayers to be available at roundstart so that it's additional bonus sees the light of day outside burn kits.
Instabitaluri is an odd duck. It's useful certainly but I never see it used because of that toxin damage conversion and the low prevelance of effective anti-toxin treatment is a downer.

Minor requests: A grinder to medbay backroom. I often want to use the medical gels but I have to mess around with water dissolving and time consumingly adding pills to the mix, having a straight grinder to put all the pills in to pour the mix into the gels would save time.

re the grinder, the chem room being mae into a an apocathery for med would fix that anyway wouldn't it (ref time greens changes)

Instabitaluri doesnt heal enough to be worth a damn outside of body repair. Its toxin conversion needs to be at most 33% of the damage, its current 66% is too much.

I'm not sure this new medbay is worth the effort of learning at this point. Just port baymed over. It'd be less of a hassle than trying to get the fucking janitor to stop for two minutes so I can use unupgraded surgery because AI wanted a shell.

go play on bay then

oranges wrote:go play on bay then

Can you stop shitposting and give good feedback

Timonk wrote:

oranges wrote:go play on bay then

Can you stop shitposting and give good feedback

You already know the answer to that question.

Timonk wrote:

oranges wrote:go play on bay then

Can you stop shitposting and give good feedback

man holding up mirror.tiff

oranges wrote:

Timonk wrote:

oranges wrote:go play on bay then

Can you stop shitposting and give good feedback

man holding up mirror.tiff

Gay sex

Timonk wrote:

oranges wrote:

Timonk wrote:

oranges wrote:go play on bay then

Can you stop shitposting and give good feedback

man holding up mirror.tiff

Gay sex

Although the peanut policy likely does not apply here, this is not relevant to the discussion

On another note, I don't have too many complaints about cobychem so far. Then again, I haven't been one to do the real meta chems so... eh.

Back off topic, Cobby, here's a copypasta I found while browsing round logs out of boredom

Reece1995/(Sergei Bobadev) "Long ago in a distant land, I, COBBY!, the banhappy coder of Darkness, unleashed an unspeakably evil code! But a foolish coder wielding a magic fix stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in time and flung him into the future, where my evil code is law! Now the fool seeks to return to the past, and undo the future that is COBBY!"

Mapping complaint, but I would like to have a stasis bed in a place where fifteen mouth breathers don't push you away to inject your patient with industrial amounts of chemicals.

Lazengann wrote:Mapping complaint, but I would like to have a stasis bed in a place where fifteen mouth breathers don't push you away to inject your patient with industrial amounts of chemicals.

Patient treatment rooms being brought back would be pretty nice, considering how long treatment takes now. Just put the stasis beds in them and they will see actual use.

The biggest problem is that medbay gets completely overrun and unable to function if the station crisis is slightly more than random greytiders hitting people with toolboxes, and that depending on random people who might be antags is always a bad thing. (from a player perspective). You dont know if the doc is going to help you, if he knows what he's doing, or if he's gonna throw you into a turned off cryopod.

Irad wrote:The biggest problem is that medbay gets completely overrun and unable to function if the station crisis is slightly more than random greytiders hitting people with toolboxes, and that depending on random people who might be antags is always a bad thing. (from a player perspective). You dont know if the doc is going to help you, if he knows what he's doing, or if he's gonna throw you into a turned off cryopod.

Thats kind of the point of the medical changes. It makes getting hurt actually a fucking problem instead of a minor issue that can be solved by meme pill use.

I do admit medbay security is a bit lacking with the increased importance of doctors but that isnt really related to cobbychem and probably should be its own discussion thread.

Dr_bee wrote:

Irad wrote:The biggest problem is that medbay gets completely overrun and unable to function if the station crisis is slightly more than random greytiders hitting people with toolboxes, and that depending on random people who might be antags is always a bad thing. (from a player perspective). You dont know if the doc is going to help you, if he knows what he's doing, or if he's gonna throw you into a turned off cryopod.

Thats kind of the point of the medical changes. It makes getting hurt actually a fucking problem instead of a minor issue that can be solved by meme pill use.

I do admit medbay security is a bit lacking with the increased importance of doctors but that isnt really related to cobbychem and probably should be its own discussion thread.

The problem with this is that hurting/killing people is piss easy, and gets easier with almost every patch.

the game has gotten far less lethal

two types of player

If the coderbus is dead-set on going this way, we should expand the food/drink and botany systems to be much better than they are for minor and moderate injuries.

Get toolboxed on the head a few too many times? Don't bother doctors and deal with residual chem damage, smoke a fat doink and eat some donk pockets before a nap.
Tox damage from inhaling plasma? Do a juice cleanse.
Heart organ damage from shitty chems? Drink a bottle of red wine.
We /alternativemedicine/ station now.

I think we should also.consider accessible street drugs which should act as temporary fixes for health issues that can no longer be fixed easily without surgery. Can't feel the pain from your mangled leg after smoking pain pills.

The idea is to move away from chemical healing, not add even more chemicals.

MisterPerson wrote:The idea is to move away from chemical healing, not add even more chemicals.

Well you can't surgery someone's toxin damage away.

MisterPerson wrote:The idea is to move away from chemical healing, not add even more chemicals.

The point being raised here is that you shouldn't have to deal with surgery or harmful chems for minor injuries or light tox damage. White kits and donk pockets are currently functioning as minor remedies, but I can't help but wonder when they'll wind up on the chopping block to make way for more surgical solutions.

white kits aren't being changed drastically in their current iteration, if anything maybe a health cap so you have to use surgery for extensive damage, but that falls out of the scope of "minor damage" complaints.

I hate omnihealers though so yes, i'm still interested in toning them down.

Ever thought about letting people do CPR on dead bodies to stave off the organ decay?

not really, is organ decay an issue?

Lazengann wrote:Ever thought about letting people do CPR on dead bodies to stave off the organ decay?

What would this accomplish? You can't do CPR on the move, so it wouldn't work for transporting a stiff to medbay. Once you're in medbay, stasis beds halt all organ decay, so sitting there doing CPR would be pointless.

doesn't formaldehyde prevent organ decay?

Often when bodies come to me in medbay, their heart has decayed just enough to require a bypass to defib, they've been dragged there and lost a ton of blood, and they still have the damage that caused the death. I find that the combination of surgeries needed and the need to use up the blood supply makes it hard to justify not tossing them in the cloner, as it takes a comparable amount of time and doesn't leave them with damaged organs.

Letting people do CPR to prevent organ damage would encourage bystanders to simply do CPR where they lay while medbay staff comes to pick them up. This would solve the blood loss from dragging and allow players to spend less time as a ghost watching medical treatments. A decent amount of people I try to revive end up catatonic before I finish, presumably because they're annoyed by how long things take. That could just be the weird hours that I play though.

If the long term is to have manual revival be at least somewhat comparable to cloning we need organ decay (or at the very least heart decay) to be slower, you cannot keep up with organ decay unless you're using a stasis bed and putting someone back together even in the best of cases takes a considerable amount of time.

This makes triage a nightmare because you only have two stasis beds, once the bodies start piling up anyone that's not on a stasis bed is constantly increasing the time it's going to take to revive them. You end up in situations where you're forced to prioritize the recently deceased while the people who have been dead a while will take too much time to bring back and are not worth prioritizing. Needless to say this sucks for the people that have to watch their corpse rot on the floor of medbay while new patients get treated right away.

On that note the medHUD icon that used to tell if someone could be defibbed is nigh-useless now since it will linger long after most of the patient's organs have turned into mush

Presently working on a bunch of organ/internal damage healers. Ideally to supplement and supplant the existing organ healers. Presently, the following has been planned out but is subject to change.

Name: Haematol
Intended application: Intavenous injection
Positive effects: Accelerated blood regeneration
Side effects: Brute trauma, rare blood vomiting
Overdose effects: Heart damage, lung damage, chance of mycocardial infarction

Name: Intestinol
Intended application: Ingest
Positive effects: Repairs stomach damage
Side effects: Vomiting, weakness
Overdose effects: Liver damage, toxin damage

Name: Pulmonol
Intended application: Inhale? If too niche, any will do
Positive effects: Lung repair
Side effects: Coughing, blurry vision
Overdose effects: Coughing fits (stun), shortness of breath, lung damage (undos healing)

Name: Heparol
Intended application: Any
Positive effects: Liver repair
Side effects: Hunger, drowsiness
Overdose effects: Accumlative stamina damage, liver damage (undos healing)

Why do we need side effects that kick any positive effects to the curb