/tg/Station 13

Reinforced windows made out of glass are tougher than reinforced walls made out of plasteel. Also simple mobs take way longer to destroy windows than reinforced walls, it makes no sense.

Yeah, I see what they were going for but they really overdid it

sounds like we should make reinforced walls harder to disassemble then

oranges wrote:sounds like we should make reinforced walls harder to disassemble then

Why

did they buff the hp AND make them harder to disassemble?

why though, the entire point was to benefit people who had tools.

simplemobs breaking walls faster than windows has always been an issue.

oranges wrote:sounds like we should make reinforced walls harder to disassemble then

Would it be so sad if we just removed damage reflection, made them a bit weaker, and removed one or two construction steps? This stuff also actively fucks over construction projects. I agree stuff should be stronger, but this seems like a bit too much.

my biggest gripe is the first step, the Weld one. it's got to be the single longest construction step of any (de)construct-able object in the game. you have to sit there with your thumb in your ass for basically a whole minute

PKPenguin321 wrote:my biggest gripe is the first step, the Weld one. it's got to be the single longest construction step of any (de)construct-able object in the game. you have to sit there with your thumb in your ass for basically a whole minute

It's pretty dumb that HEATING A COUPLE OF BOLTS takes longer than slicing your way through solid sheet metal.

Mechs can oneshot walls while windows take an age and a half to smash down. I don't even think Gygaxes can smash down windows with any amount of reliability either, the damage nerf seems to have forced them to only smash walls unless they want to waste bullets on the window.

Reinforced walls have 7 deconstruction steps not including removing the girder.
They take:
instant
4
6
10
4
10
10
seconds in that order.
This gives a theoretical fastest possible deconstruction of 44 seconds.
Most players are not capable of instantly switching tools as soon as each action finishes, so if you add 7 (1 second for each step, very generous) you end up with it taking 51 seconds, if you add 14 (2 for each step, more reasonable) it takes 58 seconds, nearly a full minute, easily brung up to a minute by getting rid of the girder.
Currently reinforced windows have 5 steps, which take:
18
8
5
3
5
seconds in that order.
This gives a theoretical fastest possible deconstruction of 39 seconds, add 7 and you get 45, etc.

It's definitely not faster but it's a bit more comparable of a time than I intended. I was under the impression that rwalls took more like a minute 30 (was targeting about half that of an rwall) but never actually did the math to check.

Breaking is a little too tough and will likely see a very small decrease, but don't expect anything major.

EDIT:
the intent was making rwindows more serious of a barrier. Previously any changes made to b&e in ways besides touching windows would be completely ignored because the easiest way into a place was just beating down the nearest window, of which there are plenty of everywhere because closed off boxes doesn't look good on maps.

The first action having such a long timer is intentional, it's massively front loaded so that someone can see you doing it and come interrupt you. It's also semi-related to a planned change of making some tool noises play continuously, but I thought worked fine without it.

The first action having such a long timer is intentional, it's massively front loaded so that someone can see you doing it and come interrupt you. It's also semi-related to a planned change of making some tool noises play continuously, but I thought worked fine without it.

I dislike this, if you catch somebody halfway through deconstructing something you should expect to have to repair it, not just shove them and their 59 seconds of welding is magically undone.

A related true story: I've had to repair half deconned armory walls as the CE before and it led to a pretty interesting gameplay. The traitor was somewhere nearby in a space suit but I wasn't sure where. There was a good deal of tension as I tried to repair it while sec fucked off assuming I would handle everything. The traitor had a stake in coming back to stop me, because if I undid what he had done so far it would require him to do it all over again. He did try to come back and we did some heated space wrasslin', but that's really the gist of it.

I think part of the reason it worked out is because r-walls have visual feedback for each step of deconstruction. You can pretty much know that they're being actively sabotaged at a glance, which doesn't presently work for r-windows. In the story above, if the traitor had just been interrupted before finishing the super long first step, I never would have been called to fix anything and he would have no reason to not just leave and come back whenever.

Tl;dr: Remove the super long first step, make sure you can undo destruction steps so you can repair interrupted sabotage, add visual feedback to each r-window decon step. Much better gameplay that feels better to do and is a lot more interesting.

I've had this idea I can't possibly sprite, which is a rework of windows like when we made em fulltile. this time, turn the "windows" used on most of the station into walls built with windows placed in them. adding rods to a girder would make it a slatted wall, can add whatever kind of glass you want into the slats. slatted walls are the same as regular walls to decon but with wirecutters instead of a welder, and you have to remove the glass first. could just solve "reinforced areas can't have windows" by adding slatted reinforced walls there and filling them in with glass.

confused rock wrote:I've had this idea I can't possibly sprite, which is a rework of windows like when we made em fulltile. this time, turn the "windows" used on most of the station into walls built with windows placed in them. adding rods to a girder would make it a slatted wall, can add whatever kind of glass you want into the slats. slatted walls are the same as regular walls to decon but with wirecutters instead of a welder, and you have to remove the glass first. could just solve "reinforced areas can't have windows" by adding slatted reinforced walls there and filling them in with glass.

Couldn't you just re-use the sprites we have already? Make the last step be adding glass to the girder or whatever and it turns into a fulltile window.

Current windows have their own benefits- I’m not sure removing them to leave only singletilers is a good idea. Also, I’d have to sprite the sladded shit. Wall sprites scare me.

confused rock wrote:Current windows have their own benefits- I’m not sure removing them to leave only singletilers is a good idea. Also, I’d have to sprite the sladded shit. Wall sprites scare me.

Adding rods to a girder to make a reinforced girder has a sprite with rods on it. Arguably you could reuse that and change the last step. Then making windows and making walls is the same, but the last step is adding glass or plasma glass instead of metal.

now that I think about it I think my entire idea is "what if we made grilles the strong part instead of the window part" and that makes me feel less smart with my idea.