Money is worthless

For feedback on the game code and design. Feedback on server rules and playstyle belong in Policy Discussion.

Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers

Does the OP reflect your experiences

Yes
8
44%
No
5
28%
I don't know
0
No votes
Abstain
0
No votes
Joke answer
5
28%
 
Total votes : 18

cacogen
 
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
Byond Username: Cacogen

Money is worthless

Postby cacogen » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:53 am #524248

Assistants get too little, everyone else gets too much. The only time I've ever cared about it was as an assistant wanting to buy a specific jacket from the clothing vendor for 50 credits, or a wrench or something from the YouTool in primary tool storage. Otherwise I've either never needed to buy something, or had so much money the cost didn't matter. Without proper scarcity, and sensible pricing (i.e. based on gameplay utility, not fluff) the money is worthless. I would like it to have leverage. I would like it to feel good to hoard wealth. I'd like people to actually fight over money, outside of when it's left outside the luxury shuttle.



User avatar
Sandshark808
 
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:56 pm
Byond Username: Sandshark808

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Sandshark808 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:34 am #524266

The whole station was designed not to have money, and things that require it are just being tacked on over time. The whole ingame economy is fucked from bottom to top and mostly exists to support cargo (but since stocks were removed that took out like half the utility).
Image

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Money is worthless

Postby oranges » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:49 am #524300

it takes a long time to introduce new systems to the point where they're baked in, specially without a dedicated coder or paid team.

you'll just have to have faith in the long term vision.

User avatar
Tarchonvaagh
 
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 9:30 pm
Byond Username: Tarchonvaagh

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:34 pm #524324

Coders getting paid? HahaHaHaHAHA
"You cannot defeat what lives on in the heart, and soul, of every TG player" - Birdboat
Image
Image
Leave thought-provoking posts at my thread!

User avatar
Shadowflame909
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Byond Username: Shadowflame909

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:45 pm #524338

Botany has to pay for their strange seeds and contraband seeds.

It's not worthless for them at all.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

User avatar
wesoda25
 
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm
Byond Username: Wesoda25

Re: Money is worthless

Postby wesoda25 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:39 pm #524346

It becomes more worthwhile by the day. I agree though, money matters to no one but assistants, so maybe certain jobs pay could be scaled back?

cacogen
 
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
Byond Username: Cacogen

Re: Money is worthless

Postby cacogen » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:38 pm #524607

Shadowflame909 wrote:Botany has to pay for their strange seeds and contraband seeds.

It's not worthless for them at all.

That's true. I remember that being annoying more than anything and thinking they were underpaid though, similar to what I said about Assistants in the OP. I haven't played it since budget cards were removed though and I think salaries were changed to be a percentage of the department's budget rather than a fixed amount so it might've gotten better.

User avatar
peoplearestrange
 
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:02 pm
Location: UK
Byond Username: Peoplearestrange

Re: Money is worthless

Postby peoplearestrange » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:56 pm #524716

I like the Idea that only heads and security get decent wages. Thus creating an actual paygap. It be nice if there was a sort of "mugging" mechanic, maybe a way to hack someones account (besides the vault draining).

A lot of things also require role participation. I.e. a bartender or cook actually charging for food and drink.

A fun object to put in could be a tip jar, somewhere visually to store credits and has the risk of being stolen etc.
/tg/stations' Forum Mother
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:singulo.io is the center point of rational and calm debate, where much of tg's issues are worked out in a fun and family friendly environment

miggles wrote:it must have been quite the accomplishment, killing a dead butterfly

WeeYakk wrote:If you take a step back from everything watching the community argue janitor related changes is one of the most surreal and hilarious things about this game. Four pages of discussing the merits of there being too much or too little dirt in a video game.

Operative wrote:Vote PAS for headmin! Get cucked and feel good getting cucked.

TheNightingale wrote:I want to get off Mr. Scones's Wild Ride...

NikNakFlak wrote:Excuse you, I was doing intentional bug testing for the well being of the server. I do not make mistakes.

Fragnostic wrote:stop cucking the first shitshow ever that revolved around me.
This is my moment, what are you doing?!

Anonmare wrote:Oranges gestures at the thread, it shudders and begins to move!

Saegrimr wrote:
callanrockslol wrote:all you have to do is ban shitters until the playbase improves/ceases to exist, whichever comes first.

IM TRYING

Screemonster wrote:hellmoo is the mud for grown adults who main reaper in overwatch

Kor wrote:
confused rock wrote:...its like if we made fire extinguishers spawn in emergency boxes and have them heal you when you put out fires rather than them being in wall storages...


Are you having a stroke

bandit wrote:you are now manually GLORFing

MrStonedOne wrote:The best part about the election is when I announce my pick because I'm just as surprised as everybody else.

PM:[USER]->IrishWristWatch0: Yeah, im make it on but how im make the station to to sun and not go to sun

OOC: Francinum: Five Rounds at PAS's
"You are destinied to defeat Dr. Uguu and his 5 Robot Masters
(All-Access-Man, ShootyBlackCoat Man, ChloralHydrate Man, Singulo Man and TeleportArmor Man)"

I'm a box

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Money is worthless

Postby confused rock » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:31 pm #524718

Oranges being like “think long term” when it’s been months with fucking nothing makes me feel more and more he doesn’t take this seriously
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Mickyan
Github User
 
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm
Byond Username: Mickyan
Github Username: Mickyan

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Mickyan » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:20 pm #524724

You have unrealistic expectations on what an economy system based on hour-long rounds can be without getting in the way of every other aspect of gameplay, which is not a good alternative

But you can start by getting rid of all the excess free stuff that's laying around every map so people have to actually buy the things they need, I'm sure that won't be controversial at all
ImageI play as Swanni, the brain-damaged moth.
Be nice to each other.

User avatar
Shadowflame909
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Byond Username: Shadowflame909

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Shadowflame909 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:40 pm #524726

Metal and Glass are now in a dispenser

You gotta buy it

Tldr: Economy is a dumb idea because it makes you buy things cargos supposed to sell.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

cacogen
 
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
Byond Username: Cacogen

Re: Money is worthless

Postby cacogen » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:42 pm #524748

peoplearestrange wrote:A fun object to put in could be a tip jar, somewhere visually to store credits and has the risk of being stolen etc.

A cash register or something like that would be cool (I think something to charge people is already in the code) but needless given currency is digital.

peoplearestrange wrote:I like the Idea that only heads and security get decent wages. Thus creating an actual paygap.

It makes perfect sense for roles that contribute more or ask more of the player to be paid more to incentivise people playing them. What I'm saying is that money doesn't feel like it has any leverage. From what I've seen assistants are underpaid, while head of staff and engineering roles are grossly overpaid to the point the money becomes frivolous to them. I know fuck-all about economics but that sounds like inflation to me.

peoplearestrange wrote:maybe a way to hack someones account (besides the vault draining)

This would be good. There should be some way of controlling the flow of the station's budget, from the captain down to the department heads, to each individual employee. And then some means of interacting with each account.

User avatar
teepeepee
 
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:21 am
Byond Username: Teepeepee

Re: Money is worthless

Postby teepeepee » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:44 pm #524727

Shadowflame909 wrote:Metal and Glass are now in a dispenser

You gotta buy it

great idea
bonus: miners no longer get a salary, instead they now get paid everytime someone uses or prints ore

nianjiilical
 
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:30 am
Byond Username: Nianjiilical

Re: Money is worthless

Postby nianjiilical » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:03 pm #524901

imo part of the problem is finding ways to make money relevant that arent just taking shit away

the only time money ever mattered to me was playing botanist and having to wait for the funds for my strange seeds and itd suck to go back to that arbitrary wait
human: ramon chivara
ai: shitpost generator
borg: shite-115
clown: LOUD CLOWN until i think of something better

highly unrobust xenobiology/medbay slut

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: Money is worthless

Postby skoglol » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:14 pm #524904

You're worthless, and NT knows. They pay in kind.

cacogen
 
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
Byond Username: Cacogen

Re: Money is worthless

Postby cacogen » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:29 am #524971

I don't think NT values any of its employees, or any of its "top secret" research stations, judging by the shocking death tolls and destruction rates. I like to think NT has so much money that the stations themselves are the experiments, the employees the subjects and that the antagonistic organisations are owned by or bankrolled by NT.

LifeReign
 
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:57 pm
Byond Username: LifeReign

Re: Money is worthless

Postby LifeReign » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:18 pm #525131

I think if you want people to actively use money, you'd have to give every department a vending machine that they can restock easily at roundstart. Building a custom vending machine will likely take up too much time out of a round to have time to fill it when it might not even be used.
Bagil- Eats-Shoots-and-Leaves: Probably the botanist

User avatar
zxaber
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:00 am
Byond Username: Zxaber

Re: Money is worthless

Postby zxaber » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:03 pm #526087

We have a culture of people just helping others for the hell of it. Throwing up vendors for departments doesn't work because no one will bother to stock them when the money is useless, and the money is useless because no one bothers to charge for anything. It's a circle you can't break just by giving players more ways to charge for things.
Douglas Bickerson / Adaptive Manipulator / Digital Clockwork
Image
OrdoM/(Viktor Bergmannsen) (ghost) "Also Douglas, you're becoming the Lexia Black of Robotics"

Dr_bee
 
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:31 pm
Byond Username: DrBee

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Dr_bee » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:37 pm #526092

Remove all the free medkits from the station, including in medbay. Put medical supplies in public nanomed machines for a non-trivial price. Suddenly you have a reason to want money, as well as a reason to go to medbay for healing as they are the only ones who will be regularly making medicine.

cacogen
 
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
Byond Username: Cacogen

Re: Money is worthless

Postby cacogen » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:28 am #526110

Dr_bee wrote:Remove all the free medkits from the station, including in medbay. Put medical supplies in public nanomed machines for a non-trivial price. Suddenly you have a reason to want money, as well as a reason to go to medbay for healing as they are the only ones who will be regularly making medicine.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the specific idea, but this is what I mean by money having leverage. People need health. If the only sources of health are other people doing their jobs (i.e. medbay, hydroponics, bartender etc.) or money, money suddenly becomes a lot more valuable. Which means it can then be used by players to incentivise each other to do what they want. Which should be a natural consequence of a money system where money is scarce enough and can be exchanged for things valuable enough (I mean gameplay value, not roleplay "value").
Last edited by cacogen on Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: Money is worthless

Postby skoglol » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:14 am #526119

Rounds aren't long enough for non persistent money to matter. Money isnt balanced enough to even consider persistence. If things are readily available for money, why would I trade with you? Why would I trade something I might need to you for money that I dont need?

User avatar
Plapatin
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:26 am
Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location:
Byond Username: Plapatin

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Plapatin » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:19 am #526124

money is worthless by design you fool
wesoda25 wrote:i had a dream that me and some friends were like in this tribal village and we were all doing cocaine around this massive bonfire and I kept seeing all these foreshadowing elements that we were gonna die but i just did more cocaine

Kryson
 
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Kryson

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Kryson » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:49 pm #526246

Economy is totally broken after the salary changes, tiders can buy insuls and tools at roundstart, botanists have like 1000 credits by 35 min.

Nerf salaries to the previous levels.

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Money is worthless

Postby oranges » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:42 pm #526282

the dept ratio payout?

okay at this point can we just remove the dept budgets please?

User avatar
teepeepee
 
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:21 am
Byond Username: Teepeepee

Re: Money is worthless

Postby teepeepee » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:30 pm #526298

Kryson wrote:Economy is totally broken after the salary changes, tiders can buy insuls and tools at roundstart, botanists have like 1000 credits by 35 min.

Nerf salaries to the previous levels.

I agree with this post
no matter what job I play, after the first payout I'm rolling in cash
I would love to see money as something scarce so I can have exchanges as something meaningful

User avatar
Mickyan
Github User
 
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm
Byond Username: Mickyan
Github Username: Mickyan

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Mickyan » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:59 pm #526304

Speaking of, why did you think tying individual paychecks to the budget was a good idea when it was widely agreed upon that budgets were out of control

And one general piece of advice I've been meaning to share: stop designing yourselves into holes and clinging to the hope someone will pick up the slack one day. A static value is easy to balance, calculations based on arbitrary values and highly volatile situations are not. Not everything needs to be a deep simulation especially when nobody is willing to put in the proper effort to properly make it as such.
ImageI play as Swanni, the brain-damaged moth.
Be nice to each other.

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Money is worthless

Postby oranges » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 pm #526308

Mickyan wrote:Speaking of, why did you think tying individual paychecks to the budget was a good idea when it was widely agreed upon that budgets were out of control

And one general piece of advice I've been meaning to share: stop designing yourselves into holes and clinging to the hope someone will pick up the slack one day. A static value is easy to balance, calculations based on arbitrary values and highly volatile situations are not. Not everything needs to be a deep simulation especially when nobody is willing to put in the proper effort to properly make it as such.

good post, but I felt kind of bad for removing the dept budget cards, so I made it pay out into salaries instead

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: Money is worthless

Postby skoglol » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:54 am #526345

Payout from budgets isnt a terrible idea, but it is a terrible idea on its own without first balancing the budgets. You guys realize science gets 50k on the budget just for doing a research bomb? Medbay gets loads of money for doing nothing in the case of extended rounds? The overall loser is surprisingly cargo, who not only have to do actual work to gain budget money but also has to use their wage base to buy shit for the station. The latter is why I argued against continuing to use cargo funds for shuttle purchase back when economy was added.

Make budgets not generate stupid amounts of money all the time and instead actually gain money depending on how well the department is running. Right now most are running on some passive stat or fixed rate. Then budget paying out wages might be fine.

We are regardless going to have trouble balancing shit around minimal wages when a fucking crate is worth 500 credits. Its time we either up the general cost and wages to be on cargo-like levels, or take a close look at cargo/mineral credits.

User avatar
Mickyan
Github User
 
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm
Byond Username: Mickyan
Github Username: Mickyan

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Mickyan » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:35 am #526355

This is exactly what I'm talking about

You're never going to properly quantify the performance of most departments in code, the gameplay of SS13 is too open ended to allow it. This addition is pointless. You're trying to add complexity to a feature that doesn't benefit from it in any way and only makes balancing it a nightmare


Keep payouts static and leave the money making business to cargo, suddently you can actually balance personal payouts around cargo's prices. Ex: based on their paycheck, a medical doctor will be able to afford a medical crate X minutes into the round.

You already have the perfect system for inter-departmental cooperation with cargo bounties. If you're looking for more opportunities for making money, that's what should be expanded.
ImageI play as Swanni, the brain-damaged moth.
Be nice to each other.

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: Money is worthless

Postby skoglol » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:53 am #526358

If I dont need something from cargo, I do not directly benefit from supplying cargo with bounties. I have no motivation to do so, other than to be nice to whoever asked.
On the other hand, cargo is able to pay out of their budget for bringing crates. The value of a crate is so high it completely bypasses any cost we add to things.

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Money is worthless

Postby oranges » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:12 am #526375

I don't think I understand your point skog

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: Money is worthless

Postby skoglol » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:38 am #526388

Im not sure I do either. Let me Grug it up.

Economy unbalanced. Vending machine costs low, cargo rewards and costs high. Money same type, systems intermix.

User avatar
Grazyn
 
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:01 am
Byond Username: Grazyn

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Grazyn » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:07 pm #526416

Money is an RP tool and it's fine as it is

User avatar
imsxz
 
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:27 pm
Byond Username: Imsxz

Re: Money is worthless

Postby imsxz » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:52 pm #526431

I agree with zxaber. In general it’s just expected that science will do upgrades and research, medbay will heal people, and engineering will fix stuff. If you try to charge for stuff like that you’re gonna get shoved out of the way and get your job done by someone else. Such is life in a positive sum game.

If people didn’t get free stuff from their own vendors they’d be a lot more inclined to charge. There’s other implications of course, but they’d still be more likely to charge.
Image

please subscribe to me on youtube

terranaut wrote:i saw this video before it was posted here
you too can be cool like me if you just subscribe to imsxz youtube channel :shades:



Arianya wrote:no, not the snails, shut up imsxz


Nervore wrote:I am going to will you out of existence, Imsxz.
One day, you will just cease to exist.


Image

User avatar
Shadowflame909
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Byond Username: Shadowflame909

Re: Money is worthless

Postby Shadowflame909 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:12 pm #526433

my take is economy doesn't need to exist.

Cargo is for supplies, you go to cargo when you want something.

If people end up buying supplies literally everywhere else. Then you've just replaced cargo.

Economy steps on cargo's toes or it gives them too much starting money. It should go away.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

cacogen
 
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
Byond Username: Cacogen

Re: Money is worthless

Postby cacogen » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:19 pm #526434

Grazyn wrote:Money is an RP tool and it's fine as it is

You could say that back when it had no actual uses, but not now that the economy system has been introduced.


Return to Coding Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users