Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

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Juninho77
 
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Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Juninho77 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:17 pm #57912

Hello.

By now, you should all be aware of the recent changes on the stun system. But in case you are not, here are our changes:

Old System:
Code: Select all
-Taser Guns had 5 charges. Each shot would stun the target.
-Energy Guns had 10 charges. Could be used in stun mode or laser mode, with stun mode stunning after one shot.
-C-20R, Riot Shotguns, and Detective's Revolver would knock down with one shot.
-Energy Crossbows would stun with one shot.


New System:
Code: Select all
-Taser became Hybrid Taser: 2 stun shots, 10 disabler shots. [b]Disabler shot lower your stamina. It takes 4-6 shots (depending on armor) do "stun" someone, with each successfully landed shot slowing the target a bit.[/b]
-Energy Guns lost the stun mode: it now has 20 disabler shots or 10 laser shots.
-Detective's revolver, riot shotgun, and C-20R all lost their instant knockdown: now they cause brute damage, as well as stamina damage.
-Energy Crossbows still stun with one shot.


The First Problem:
Code: Select all
-Energy Shields block all energy shots (tasers, lasers, disabler beams).
-Riot Shotgun takes 6 shots to knock down a hardsuited syndicate operative.

In case syndicate operatives rush a station, all of them with C-20Rs and Energy Shields, there will be ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that security can do to stop them. Perhaps the clown will be more effective with his PDA, assuming they didn't get no-slippers.

Tasers, disablers, and lasers don't go through an e-shield, sometimes even being reflected back to you. Riot Shotguns can carry up to 7 shells, and it takes 6 of them to stun ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE. Not to mention that the shotgun is bulky, needs to be pumped after each shot, and is impractical to reload (unlike the syndicates' shotguns). In the meanwhile, the operatives have automatic shotguns and submachine guns.

And don't fucking tell me "you can always run them down with stun batons," or "use flashbangs." If you honestly think you can beat five slightly robust syndicate operative who are charging you with a C-20R by "throwing flashbangs," go play security because I need to learn from you.

The riot shotgun needs a buff, notably against armored people. Honestly, who ever uses them unless you're facing energy shields?

Also, the energy shield could use a nerf. Being immune to all projectiles is cool when you're using a double-bladed e-sword: you're restricted to melee attacks, after all. It is not so cool when you can carry a shotgun on your other hand.



The Second Problem:
Code: Select all
-Energy Bows did not get nerfed.

It's a thing about game balance: everything you change will impact something else. If you nerf the taser gun - now a hybrid taser - because it can stun with a single shot, you need to nerf the other weapons that can stun with a single shot too. It happened to firearms, it happened to the e-gun. But nobody nerfed the e-bow. Now you have a self-rechargeable, single-shot stun that deals damage which ignores armor. It needs a nerf, whether it is increasing its cost, removing the single-shot stun, or increasing its size.

Edit:
Saegrimr wrote:Costs ammo now, 10 shots. But you can pick up the bolts on the ground if you have the time somehow and reload it. Or buy more ebow ammo from the uplink.
Last edited by Juninho77 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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420weedscopes
 
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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby 420weedscopes » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:25 pm #57915

push the ebow cost up by 1 point imo.
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Saegrimr
 
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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:27 pm #57916

Juninho77 wrote:The Second Problem:
Code: Select all
-Energy Bows did not get nerfed.


Costs ammo now, 10 shots. But you can pick up the bolts on the ground if you have the time somehow and reload it. Or buy more ebow ammo from the uplink.
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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Snakebutt » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:40 pm #57941

Saegrimr wrote:
Juninho77 wrote:The Second Problem:
Code: Select all
-Energy Bows did not get nerfed.


Costs ammo now, 10 shots. But you can pick up the bolts on the ground if you have the time somehow and reload it. Or buy more ebow ammo from the uplink.

>e-bow
>energy bow
>Energy
>physical ammunition
I'll let you mull over how this is a retarded idea.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Boredone » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:06 pm #57952

Eh, some minor things. The tasers low ammo amount is due to it accidently having the wrong cell, should have 5 taser shots and 20 disabler shots I believe.

And while I'm not sure myself if it was a good idea, E-Bow got renamed AutoCrossbow or similar.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:43 pm #57962

Snakebutt wrote:I'll let you mull over how this is a retarded idea.


Don't blame me, blame https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/6747
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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby paprika » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:21 pm #57979

but i renamed the ebow to mini crossbow already you silly fuck
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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:53 pm #58067

Juninho77 wrote:And don't fucking tell me "you can always run them down with stun batons," or "use flashbangs." If you honestly think you can beat five slightly robust syndicate operative who are charging you with a C-20R by "throwing flashbangs," go play security because I need to learn from you.

Too bad, I'll tell you anyway. Use a stun prod. Whining about having to use a tool to counter another tool is silly.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby RG4 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:02 am #58069

cedarbridge wrote:
Juninho77 wrote:And don't fucking tell me "you can always run them down with stun batons," or "use flashbangs." If you honestly think you can beat five slightly robust syndicate operative who are charging you with a C-20R by "throwing flashbangs," go play security because I need to learn from you.

Too bad, I'll tell you anyway. Use a stun prod. Whining about having to use a tool to counter another tool is silly.

I don't think anything is scarier than an assistant whose high on hyperzine busting through the doors to stunprod you as an Op.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby lumipharon » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:31 am #58105

It is indeed pretty retarded to have an ebow use physical ammo. Self recharging was the whole point of the the weapon. It would be better if it needed to be toggled to charge though, and can't fire until while charging back to full, to stop it from being a never ending pain in the ass during an extended spree.

Grubbing around for ammo is dumb as shit.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Feretal » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:37 am #58110

please change ebows back guys
please
please
please

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Cipher3 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:35 am #58145

It's also straight up insane to expect people to use melee with no deflection against a full team of armored troops wielding knockdown-guns.
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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Incomptinence » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:13 am #58219

I did caution that picking up bolts worked poorly even for the foam dart. Which is a toy.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby paprika » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:18 pm #58418

If someone can work out a way to load ammo by hitting the bolts on the ground WITH the bow, be my guest. I personally can't because there was a bug with it last time I tried, but it would make ebow loading a lot smoother.

lumipharon wrote:It is indeed pretty retarded to have an ebow use physical ammo.

Good thing it isn't an ebow anymore.
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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby DemonFiren » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:03 am #58448

Well, you fixed the inconsistency, the suckage remains.
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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:11 am #58457

paprika wrote:If someone can work out a way to load ammo by hitting the bolts on the ground WITH the bow, be my guest. I personally can't because there was a bug with it last time I tried, but it would make ebow loading a lot smoother.

lumipharon wrote:It is indeed pretty retarded to have an ebow use physical ammo.

Good thing it isn't an ebow anymore.


Ironically despite all the janitor fuckery that's been going on, this makes it kind of a boon to be a traitor janitor (or at least steal his garbage bag.)

Load em all up right there on the spot.
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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Tsaricide » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:23 am #58460

I would rather the ebow either act how Lumi suggested or it only having one shot stored at a time and then it regenerates, I dislike the physical ammo.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Incomptinence » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:29 am #58557

Picking up stuff into an item by clicking it on the ground with the item? From what I recall the plasma and uranium exo reactors could do similar, well I know the plasma one could. Also mining satchels?

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby paprika » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:05 am #58570

It's not as easy as easy as implementing it like they do.

Anyway, ebows having unlimited ammo was garbage. You can have instastuns or you can have unlimited ammo, not both. What a fucking horribly uninspired weapon.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby lumipharon » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:22 am #58591

Garbage bag works that way. Garbage bag is literally just a military belt with better functionality.
It fits on your belt slot, hold all small items, and can pick shit up with clicks. It's also not that suspicious (especially if you're a janitor). More then once I've been arrested, searched and released, with a garbage bag full of tator shit untouched on my belt slot.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby Snakebutt » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:26 pm #58767

paprika wrote:It's not as easy as easy as implementing it like they do.

Anyway, ebows having unlimited ammo was garbage. You can have instastuns or you can have unlimited ammo, not both. What a fucking horribly uninspired weapon.

An instant, weak stun that doesnt last long enough to cuff someone and does tickle toxin damage, which is laughably easy to heal. Its basically a traitor detective revolver.

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Re: Of Tasers, Shotguns, Energy Shields, and E-Bows

Postby paprika » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:35 pm #58772

Ideally the ebow would be for slowing down security who are chasing you, or temporarily taking out guards like a tranq gun to slip into places. But it's not, it's a murderbone killspree esword wombo combo and shits on people because traitors are unoriginal.
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