CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:07 pm #538765

SkeletalElite wrote:I think passive tools that are much less efficient than the active work of a doctor is a good way of doing that. One way this could work would be to make cloning take much longer. That way when the bodies pile up the cloner works to get people back in the round as secondary tool while doctors actively revive other bodies much more quickly than the cloner can. In a non crisis situation using the cloner would be a bad idea because you can just revive the body yourself faster, but if you have a lot of bodies to revive having the cloner revive one while you work on others could help the station recover. In the event you do have the medbay dream team, they can work faster without the cloner. This adds a bit of a saftey net though, something too fall back on if medbay is to swamped to handle everything or all the doctors get killed.

Ive said a few times already, but there are a few problems here.
1: Making cloning take longer doesnt scale, since you can just make more cloners.
2: Even if it takes a long time, we have to balance everything else around that process and even if we do that perfectly it will always be available as the path of least resistance.
3: Cloning doesnt require doctors, which is a problem. With cloning available every non doctor can throw someone in the cloner and be done with it, in the process stealing medbays gameplay. And if you make cloning an active process, you arent solving what you presented as the issue in the first place.

SkeletalElite wrote:edit: Oh and also it helps in the case of escalation, where without cloning, theres a bit of a grey area on what to do if you kill someone you start a conflict with.

This isn't grey at all. Dont kill someone you started a conflict with, and if you do then take the consequences of having killed someone.



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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:25 pm #538768

SkeletalElite wrote:Medbay needs a way to deal with crises, sometimes shit happens and the bodies just keep piling up. I think even with cloning this was a problem, but is even worse without it. A good medbay team could probably effectively deal with this with the tools currently in place, but it will require the competence of numerous people in medbay all working effectively, which is rare. I think some way of medbay to deal with a crisis is necessary, especially if the goal is create an environment where people try to fix problems first instead of call the shuttle when something goes bad.

I think passive tools that are much less efficient than the active work of a doctor is a good way of doing that. One way this could work would be to make cloning take much longer. That way when the bodies pile up the cloner works to get people back in the round as secondary tool while doctors actively revive other bodies much more quickly than the cloner can. In a non crisis situation using the cloner would be a bad idea because you can just revive the body yourself faster, but if you have a lot of bodies to revive having the cloner revive one while you work on others could help the station recover. In the event you do have the medbay dream team, they can work faster without the cloner. This adds a bit of a saftey net though, something too fall back on if medbay is to swamped to handle everything or all the doctors get killed.

edit: Oh and also it helps in the case of escalation, where without cloning, theres a bit of a grey area on what to do if you kill someone you start a conflict with.


A bypass surgery takes 30 seconds, and you can almost always defib straight after (if they have brute or burn damage a patch or injection from the kit will take care of it). Medbay is just inexperienced right now. It'll pass.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby cacogen » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:44 pm #538774

Critawakets wrote:Cloning removal only really works on Manuel where there is no murderboning.

braindeath
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Taraiph » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:40 am #538820

Sheodir wrote:
SkeletalElite wrote:snip.


A bypass surgery takes 30 seconds, and you can almost always defib straight after (if they have brute or burn damage a patch or injection from the kit will take care of it). Medbay is just inexperienced right now. It'll pass.


A bypass surgery takes 30 seconds. Organ replacement takes two minutes, not counting the appendix in which case add another thirty seconds. Brain surgery takes thirty seconds assuming the brain isn't dead to begin with. The actual revival surgery can take around 30-ish seconds. Note that I'm not even counting actual tissue damage or blood loss, which can take several minutes to heal at worst. For an experienced medbay player it can take a while to revive one single body from death, and that's in the best circumstances with a stocked fridge and competent non-traitor teammates. In the worst circumstances suiciding mid-surgery might actually be a more effective use of your time because the dude you're operating on already fucked off to become a xenobio spawn and the R&D dude is too busy fighting robotics over points, if there's an R&D dude at all.

80% of my time in medbay is now spent trying to bring people back to life instead of doing fun stuff and giving out cool surgeries. For all the focus on surgery and improving that end, most of them go completely unused. This, in the long run, will ultimately hurt medbay, because there's nothing interesting to do once you've learned the revival flowchart.

Kryson wrote:Stasis beds are not necessary, they are just a magical machine that removes all urgency for medical gameplay.

Do not make the problem worse.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:00 am #538834

Taraiph wrote:A bypass surgery takes 30 seconds. Organ replacement takes two minutes, not counting the appendix in which case add another thirty seconds. Brain surgery takes thirty seconds assuming the brain isn't dead to begin with. The actual revival surgery can take around 30-ish seconds. Note that I'm not even counting actual tissue damage or blood loss, which can take several minutes to heal at worst. For an experienced medbay player it can take a while to revive one single body from death, and that's in the best circumstances with a stocked fridge and competent non-traitor teammates. In the worst circumstances suiciding mid-surgery might actually be a more effective use of your time because the dude you're operating on already fucked off to become a xenobio spawn and the R&D dude is too busy fighting robotics over points, if there's an R&D dude at all.


This is what I mean by inexperience.

If not Non-Functional it's not worth going for replacing the other organs unless you have time to spare. Brains only break after thirty minutes, so you'll rarely have to do brain repair surgery. Plus, if there's one complaint after playing a lot of Medbay post cloning is that revival surgery is pretty much needless - you only need it if the body's so cold it might as well be a popsicle, up to 30 minutes or more. For most, your rhythm is coronary bypass and defib, with tend wounds for 20 seconds n the middle if you used up all your brute/burn kits and the chemist hasn't made more.

If the Organs aren't Non-Functional, even Severely Damaged ones will at best just inconvenience the revived player for a couple minutes before they're healed up to Moderately Damaged, at which point the inconveniences are minimal (mostly flavor text). So in a rush, focus on this process (bypass->heal->defib) and only go for the full fixer upper when you have the time.

This is the kind of dynamic decision making that makes Medbay fun now imo.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby kopoba » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:29 am #538836

Muncher21 wrote:
SpinnerMaster wrote:
Spoiler:
Image

Round ID? I'm super curious about the a lot of context behind this picture, station time, number of antags, number of medical staff etc.

i can bet its 129426 or not but looks similar

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Taraiph » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:26 pm #538864

Sheodir wrote:
Taraiph wrote:judgement cut


This is what I mean by inexperience.

If not Non-Functional it's not worth going for replacing the other organs unless you have time to spare. Brains only break after thirty minutes, so you'll rarely have to do brain repair surgery. Plus, if there's one complaint after playing a lot of Medbay post cloning is that revival surgery is pretty much needless - you only need it if the body's so cold it might as well be a popsicle, up to 30 minutes or more. For most, your rhythm is coronary bypass and defib, with tend wounds for 20 seconds n the middle if you used up all your brute/burn kits and the chemist hasn't made more.

If the Organs aren't Non-Functional, even Severely Damaged ones will at best just inconvenience the revived player for a couple minutes before they're healed up to Moderately Damaged, at which point the inconveniences are minimal (mostly flavor text). So in a rush, focus on this process (bypass->heal->defib) and only go for the full fixer upper when you have the time.

This is the kind of dynamic decision making that makes Medbay fun now imo.


That's not dynamic decision making. That's a flowchart. If the decision-making weren't so binary I'd say it were dynamic. At this point it's just more of the same conveyor-belt mentality that cloning caused, only now you have even more catatonic people than ever before.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:47 pm #538865

Taraiph wrote:That's not dynamic decision making. That's a flowchart. If the decision-making weren't so binary I'd say it were dynamic. At this point it's just more of the same conveyor-belt mentality that cloning caused, only now you have even more catatonic people than ever before.


Did you not read what I wrote?

The dynamic part is the decision of to which degree you treat someone using invasive and busy methods depending on how many people are flooding in and how much work they demand. You can opt for bypass and defib, for a quick multi organ repair (you can put several prosthetics at once if you fill up a fridge ahead of time), which surgeries to go for vs final result. You also didn't comment at all at the much different, faster treatment methods that apparently arose from you misunderstanding the systems at play, which greatly reduce your grievances.

It sure is a lot more decision making than cloning gave us.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby kopoba » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:46 pm #538871

Reviving still take take too much time and i dont see anyone making any steps to fix this.
So cloning removal sucks. :honk: :honk:

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Qbopper » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:06 pm #538876

kopoba wrote:Reviving still take take too much time and i dont see anyone making any steps to fix this.
So cloning removal sucks. :honk: :honk:


this seems kinda needlessly reductive
Limey wrote:its too late.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:18 pm #538882

kopoba wrote:Reviving still take take too much time and i dont see anyone making any steps to fix this.
So cloning removal sucks. :honk: :honk:

Objectively wrong.

For most cases that can't be straight defibbed (Dead within the last 4 to 10 minutes) a bypass and defib with tend wounds OR chem injection from a kit in the middle is more than enough. Assuming basic tend wounds and a fully damaged 200 brute or burn damage body you're looking at about a minute half revival. (healing to the point of defib + bypass + defib)

This is significantly faster than roundstart cloning, which took 3 minutes.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:42 pm #538884

what if they're husked
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:04 pm #538887

kopoba wrote:Reviving still take take too much time and i dont see anyone making any steps to fix this.
So cloning removal sucks. :honk: :honk:


You've downvoted a PR making it easier for doctors to deal with death in the last few days. Begone.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby kopoba » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:11 pm #538890

Sheodir wrote:
kopoba wrote:Reviving still take take too much time and i dont see anyone making any steps to fix this.
So cloning removal sucks. :honk: :honk:

Objectively wrong.

For most cases that can't be straight defibbed (Dead within the last 4 to 10 minutes) a bypass and defib with tend wounds OR chem injection from a kit in the middle is more than enough. Assuming basic tend wounds and a fully damaged 200 brute or burn damage body you're looking at about a minute half revival. (healing to the point of defib + bypass + defib)

This is significantly faster than roundstart cloning, which took 3 minutes.

Its not wrong. Yeh its sounds cool with all that surgery and chems but ITS TOO MUCH TIME. You can repeat your mantra about how cool removing cloning is but from my view and practice as doctor its sucks.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:14 pm #538891

Super Aggro Crag wrote:what if they're husked

Husking got super changed recently. Not only is it much harder to meet a husk outside of ling rounds but making instabitaluri heal husk when burn damage is less than 50 makes it a non issue if you have even a half decent chemist. I've been forcing my Chemists to make a few patches of it every roundstart as CMO and Husks haven't been an issue since.

kopoba wrote:Its not wrong. Yeh its sounds cool with all that surgery and chems but ITS TOO MUCH TIME. You can repeat your mantra about how cool removing cloning is but from my view and practice as doctor its sucks.


I just explained how it takes less time than cloning did. Even upgraded cloning took two minutes, which bypass + defib still takes less than. You've also proven several times in this thread you don't really play much Medical, given a lack of knowledge of even basic medical procedures and common occurences. If you ever played MD it was an eon ago, certainly before Cobbychem became standard.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby kopoba » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:17 pm #538893

skoglol wrote:You've downvoted a PR making it easier for doctors to deal with death in the last few days. Begone.

Probably because removing cloning bad in first place and all that "PR with fix" will lead to cloning removal PR will be merged permanently and i dont like it. And stop spying what im down voting pervert =P

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:20 pm #538895

I check who downvotes because when bad take people downvote my stuff I know I am doing something right.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:21 pm #538896

skoglol wrote:I check who downvotes because when bad take people downvote my stuff I know I am doing something right.

I love you skog but don't become oranges 2.0. Actually engaging with people who disagree with your PRs is one of the thing that sets you apart in a good way.

Kopoba is hard to deal with. He straight up ignores arguments against him when he isn't saying 'no u'.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby kopoba » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:22 pm #538897

Sheodir wrote:I just explained how it takes less time than cloning did. Even upgraded cloning took two minutes, which bypass + defib still takes less than. You've also proven several times in this thread you don't really play much Medical, given a lack of knowledge of even basic medical procedures and common occurences. If you ever played MD it was an eon ago, certainly before Cobbychem became standard.

All other shity procedures will include fixinng ~200-400 damage of brut/burn, printing liver,lungs, heart, replacing them in victim. Maybe printing limbs and attaching them. This shit will take around 10 minutes or more. If i remember right brain also taking damage over time so i think if body lays to long you must get brain from body use mantilol on it and insert it back. +~3minutes to do surgery and get mantitol.
Imagine how many operation you must do to revive one man versus cloning.

You cant beat cloning surrender yourself.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby kopoba » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:24 pm #538898

Sheodir wrote:Kopoba is hard to deal with. He straight up ignores arguments against him when he isn't saying 'no u'.

Its not hard to deal with me i just play alot and feels players pain how i feel it myself.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:27 pm #538902

kopoba wrote:]All other shity procedures will include fixinng ~200-400 damage of brut/burn, printing liver,lungs, heart, replacing them in victim. Maybe printing limbs and attaching them. This shit will take around 10 minutes or more. If i remember right brain also taking damage over time so i think if body lays to long you must get brain from body use mantilol on it and insert it back. +~3minutes to do surgery and get mantitol.
Imagine how many operation you must do to revive one man versus cloning.

This shit is just... wrong.

Again, stop reading git posts and play the damn game. Fixing 200 to 400 burn or brute damage isn't necessary, there is a threshold to defib that is quite fast to heal with Tend Wounds, specially advanced. Printing limbs and organs isn't necessary for revival - organs take a long ass time to break aside from the heart, which only requires a short bypass surgery. The brain needs thirty minutes to break, brain death and mannitol splashing haven't been that common an occurrence for eons. I've explained in detail the new surgeries that'll make most of you time in Medical and you've refused to listen because you clearly don't play Medical.

Some players are making good arguments on bodycount and other such matters that can be actually discussed, but you're just wildly trying to guess whilst getting shit so wrong that it is just sad.

kopoba wrote:
Sheodir wrote:Kopoba is hard to deal with. He straight up ignores arguments against him when he isn't saying 'no u'.

Its not hard to deal with me i just play alot and feels players pain how i feel it myself.


Every time you post you show clearly you don't play the game, at least not anytime this year or in the department we're discussing. I mean, really? Mannitol splashing?
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby kopoba » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:40 pm #538911

Sheodir wrote:This shit is just... wrong.

Again, stop reading git posts and play the damn game. Fixing 200 to 400 burn or brute damage isn't necessary, there is a threshold to defib that is quite fast to heal with Tend Wounds, specially advanced. Printing limbs and organs isn't necessary for revival - organs take a long ass time to break aside from the heart, which only requires a short bypass surgery. The brain needs thirty minutes to break, brain death and mannitol splashing haven't been that common an occurrence for eons. I've explained in detail the new surgeries that'll make most of you time in Medical and you've refused to listen because you clearly don't play Medical.

Some players are making good arguments on bodycount and other such matters that can be actually discussed, but you're just wildly trying to guess whilst getting shit so wrong that it is just sad.

Dude i got 7k minutes as doctor and 3k as CMO i play the damn game
Lets take some round for example https://sb.atlantaned.space/rounds/129426
87 death for 120 minutes on extended
1 death per 1.37 minute
goodluck fixin this death conveyor without cloning

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:47 pm #538917

kopoba wrote:Dude i got 7k minutes as doctor and 3k as CMO i play the damn game
Lets take some round for example https://sb.atlantaned.space/rounds/129426
87 death for 120 minutes on extended
1 death per 1.37 minute
goodluck fixin this death conveyor without cloning


Cloning would literally not solve this "conveyor belt", at best alleviate it slightly. It'd take minutes to spit out each new revived person, still less than a Doctor actually working with surgeries.

Also, I checked the logs and this was a 2 hour shift on event hall of mostly no deaths with a pretty significant shuttle bombing at the end, where most deaths happened. Good try.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby oranges » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:48 pm #538918

argue about how good you are in another thread.

PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:57 pm.
Reason: I will ban you from this forum, do not even test me

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby kopoba » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:11 pm #538925

Sheodir wrote:
Cloning would literally not solve this "conveyor belt", at best alleviate it slightly. It'd take minutes to spit out each new revived person, still less than a Doctor actually working with surgeries.

Also, I checked the logs and this was a 2 hour shift on event hall of mostly no deaths with a pretty significant shuttle bombing at the end, where most deaths happened. Good try.

I think we looking different logs https://sb.atlantaned.space/deaths/round/129426/page/1 . And yes cloning will solve the problem 2-3 cloning pods and we good to go drink tea with catgirls and even 1 fully upgraded will poop clones like cookies and docs can revive other crew with head on right place organs that not rotting and with limbs while bad patients going to cloning.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:25 pm #538931

kopoba wrote:
Sheodir wrote:
Cloning would literally not solve this "conveyor belt", at best alleviate it slightly. It'd take minutes to spit out each new revived person, still less than a Doctor actually working with surgeries.

Also, I checked the logs and this was a 2 hour shift on event hall of mostly no deaths with a pretty significant shuttle bombing at the end, where most deaths happened. Good try.

I think we looking different logs https://sb.atlantaned.space/deaths/round/129426/page/1 . And yes cloning will solve the problem 2-3 cloning pods and we good to go drink tea with catgirls and even 1 fully upgraded will poop clones like cookies and docs can revive other crew with head on right place organs that not rotting and with limbs while bad patients going to cloning.


Fully upgraded cloning heals at 2 minutes. Logs for it were wrong - wrong yesterday night shift, one I was in - but scrolling through roundtime deaths hardly shows that carnage I expected. Most of these deaths were spaced out, with some being due to bombs and thus being 5 or 6 at a time. Difficult to deal with for those, but still faster than cloning 6 people.

You're just showing the kind of crutch behavior cloning incentivized.

I also never checked this resource much before, and 70 ish to 80 deaths in Event Hall seems normal. High population and all that. I do not have any reason to think this was an unusual carnage filled round.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:28 pm #538932

kopoba wrote:And yes cloning will solve the problem 2-3 cloning pods and we good to go drink tea with catgirls and even 1 fully upgraded will poop clones like cookies and docs can revive other crew with head on right place organs that not rotting and with limbs while bad patients going to cloning.


This is why I want cloners to go away. You should have to work to get far gone people back. So far you have made lots of arguments about how one doctor wont have time to bring back the entire crew, and you are correct. One doctor wont be able to do that easily.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:32 pm #538933

skoglol wrote:
kopoba wrote:And yes cloning will solve the problem 2-3 cloning pods and we good to go drink tea with catgirls and even 1 fully upgraded will poop clones like cookies and docs can revive other crew with head on right place organs that not rotting and with limbs while bad patients going to cloning.


This is why I want cloners to go away. You should have to work to get far gone people back. So far you have made lots of arguments about how one doctor wont have time to bring back the entire crew, and you are correct. One doctor wont be able to do that easily.

Even then it is gloriously overestimating how good cloning was, which I'm seeing a lot. It's like nobody noticed cloning didn't actually get used that much in recent Med, which it really didn't.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Mickyan » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:11 pm #538944

Lack of space to treat patients without other doctors and random people crowding around is a big issue, we need patient rooms back and I'd say at least 4 stasis beds linked to surgery computers (since surgery progression is linked to these, they're pretty much required to be effective), two surgery theaters are unnecessary on the other hand

Missing organs not showing up on health scanners is infuriating but I know that's being looked into, disemboweled bodies should probably have specific examine text about that giant gaping hole in their chest

These are the two major outstanding issues I've noticed at the moment, I'd like to see some more stuff to unlock through RnD to keep up with the rising chaos as the round progresses but that's a long term goal
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby kopoba » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:16 pm #538947

skoglol wrote:This is why I want cloners to go away. You should have to work to get far gone people back. So far you have made lots of arguments about how one doctor wont have time to bring back the entire crew, and you are correct. One doctor wont be able to do that easily.

Not doctor suffer from this situation but poor dead dudes. Doctors feels okay in ocean of dead bodys and can just ignore them and go drink tea with catgirls.
You asking people to work but no one likes to work only some psyho.
Its like asking officer to arest greitide or engis setup engine or hop work with hopline miners mine scientist research. Most of the time this will be unsuccessful and same works with doctors. :medbot:

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:19 pm #538948

Mickyan wrote:Lack of space to treat patients without other doctors and random people crowding around is a big issue, we need patient rooms back and I'd say at least 4 stasis beds linked to surgery computers (since surgery progression is linked to these, they're pretty much required to be effective), two surgery theaters are unnecessary on the other hand

Missing organs not showing up on health scanners is infuriating but I know that's being looked into, disemboweled bodies should probably have specific examine text about that giant gaping hole in their chest

These are the two major outstanding issues I've noticed at the moment, I'd like to see some more stuff to unlock through RnD to keep up with the rising chaos as the round progresses but that's a long term goal


My proposed changes:

- Have a 'ward' where PMs can drop off patients in a row of stasis beds (4 or so) and normal beds for non emergency patients. separate by drapes and some kind of color coding - so the red ward for emergencies with stasis beds, a yellow ward for serious but not urgent cases (sickness, mass trauma, etc) and a green ward for SSDs and flavor

- Switch surgery beds with stasis beds because why not

- Keep the two surgery theaters but make one less "backup", so they can be rotating surgeries on sets of two and only build surgery computers on the holding area beds

- A freezer to store full bodies and organs on to replace the "smart" freezer

We have the extra space now and Meta could use a rework of its massive morgue.

kopoba wrote:Not doctor suffer from this situation but poor dead dudes. Doctors feels okay in ocean of dead bodys and can just ignore them and go drink tea with catgirls.
You asking people to work but no one likes to work only some psyho.
Its like asking officer to arest greitide or engis setup engine or hop work with hopline miners mine scientist research. Most of the time this will be unsuccessful and same works with doctors. :medbot:


You literally play this game to work. As a Sec main, the greytide exists to give us work during green shifts and is more than welcome. HoPs often relish working the line. (HoP mains anyway, the ones that aren't just "shit didn't roll cap)

This take is bonkers
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:26 pm #538952

Sheodir wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:what if they're husked

Husking got super changed recently. Not only is it much harder to meet a husk outside of ling rounds but making instabitaluri heal husk when burn damage is less than 50 makes it a non issue if you have even a half decent chemist. I've been forcing my Chemists to make a few patches of it every roundstart as CMO and Husks haven't been an issue since.

kopoba wrote:Its not wrong. Yeh its sounds cool with all that surgery and chems but ITS TOO MUCH TIME. You can repeat your mantra about how cool removing cloning is but from my view and practice as doctor its sucks.


I just explained how it takes less time than cloning did. Even upgraded cloning took two minutes, which bypass + defib still takes less than. You've also proven several times in this thread you don't really play much Medical, given a lack of knowledge of even basic medical procedures and common occurences. If you ever played MD it was an eon ago, certainly before Cobbychem became standard.

it took me a real long time to get the chemists to make synthflesh last night
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:34 pm #538956

Super Aggro Crag wrote:it took me a real long time to get the chemists to make synthflesh last night


I'm not gonna deny this can be frustrating. Getting chemists to collaborate can be a fucking pain. As CMO I basically just hang over them like a vulture on roundstart and pester them until I have a few dozen patches. Leaving it for later is always misery.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:55 pm #538969

they were busy dicking around with pipes

CHEMFACTORY YAY

eventually they got it set up nice but still it was frustrating having a husk so early in the shift
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:16 pm #538976

Super Aggro Crag wrote:they were busy dicking around with pipes

CHEMFACTORY YAY

eventually they got it set up nice but still it was frustrating having a husk so early in the shift


Maybe Medbay could have some form of "Spacing Treatment Kit" of some sort that starts with a couple patches amidst random burn treatment and epinephrine medipens. Not a lot, but just something to offset roundstart husks.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:24 pm #538977

i think he might have been changeamaligned there was a lot of people running around as the same persone
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:48 am #539007

Just experienced a highpop round with numerous murderboners, I wasn’t a doctor but had to step in. I really like that state medbay is in right now, it was a challenge and really fun to manage time/resources in order to get the most useful people ressed the quickest. I really think medbay could use more than two stasis beds though, something to throw people on to keep their organs from decaying. Maybe a special type of morgue tray which suspends a person in stasis? We could put a few of said trays on each map to help with overload.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:21 am #539012

You can currently inject corpses with formaldehyde to stop organ decay, but I dont think most people know. While its easy to make, I think it should be easier to administer as well. There is currently a small amount in epi pens, but those are limited stock.
Increasing the amount of treatment space is important too, but mapping is a pain and I havent gotten around to it yet. If someone else is willing to take a crack at it, give me a ping on discord.

I also have been mulling over what to do with the surgery computer, op tables and stasis beds. How they work right now is clunky and messy, and I dont like it much. I dont think you should be reliant on one for certain upgraded surgeries at the very least, and quite frankly I would personally prefer a more permanent solution than just band aiding it once more.

PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:33 am.
Reason: please stop

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Lazengann » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:00 am #539019

You can buy advanced health kits that are synthflesh packed from the vending machine, if you don't have the cash just raid the guy's ID and make him pay for his own treatment

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby skoglol » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:12 am #539022

There are two sprays of synthflesh and the two premium kits in the roundstart vendor. Both contain 60u synthflesh each, so a dehusking from vendor material will set you back 1000 credits in the case of the sprays or 2200 credits if you pick up two kits. Kits of course contain some other stuff too to float the cost.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Dr_bee » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:15 am #539038

An advanced form of surgical drapes that can apply the advanced surgeries anywhere would be a neat way to make medical less reliant on surgical computers.

Also, move one of the stasis beds into the main surgical wing, leaving one in the old sleeper room. Most of the time doctors move the surgical computers into the much more public sleeper room because it makes treatment easier but it also leads to an absolute mess of people pushing each other and stealing things. Having one stasis bed open for regular treatment and another for surgery proper would solve that problem, and also give a little bit of triage conflict over the main surgical wing, as if it is in use you have to fall back on the regular surgical table or use the one in treatment.

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:01 pm #539044

Making operating computers able to be put over walls might clean things up a little

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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:53 pm #539049

Crag also brought up the idea of having a public access 'waiting room' and the rest of Medbay is locked off for Medical personnel only, and further into Medbay than the current doors. This is to try and establish a buffer between the randos and the health personnel - less assistants waltzing in mid surgery. Honestly, this is all coming to mean "removing cloning necessitates remapping the entirety of Medbay".
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Mickyan » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:11 pm #539057

Not a bad idea to tie available surgeries to surgical drape types
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:25 pm #539059

Mickyan wrote:Not a bad idea to tie available surgeries to surgical drape types

I dislike it because the idea was make people do surgery in medbay. If its tied to a drape they can just do it wherever. Making stasis beds the default Surgery beds would basically be enough, although I also added the idea that some surgeries should either be synced to or immediatelly available if wearing nitrile gloves to specialize the role a bit.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:46 pm #539113

Sheodir wrote:
Mickyan wrote:Not a bad idea to tie available surgeries to surgical drape types

I dislike it because the idea was make people do surgery in medbay. If its tied to a drape they can just do it wherever. Making stasis beds the default Surgery beds would basically be enough, although I also added the idea that some surgeries should either be synced to or immediatelly available if wearing nitrile gloves to specialize the role a bit.
theres a plethora of surgical junk in map maintenance, up to and including actual surgical tables and drapes, and i still never see anyone doing surgery anywhere but medical bay. I've never even seen a doctor doing field triage, its often just "drag the bleeding sucker to medbay and then defib them rather than try to save their life"

If advanced drapes incentivized doing the faster healing surgeries in an emergency in the hallway itd be cool
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Sheodir » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:51 pm #539114

Super Aggro Crag wrote:If advanced drapes incentivized doing the faster healing surgeries in an emergency in the hallway itd be cool

This is true, it kinda is incentivized to stay in Medbay by the fact trying to drag the tools out gets you shouted at, but I like that it stays there and would want to keep them there rather than hallway surgery. BUT at the same time I like the idea of it going to the nitrile gloves instead of a better type of drapes, honestly, if we're gonna do it like this.
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Re: CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

Postby Dr_bee » Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:46 pm #539174

Sheodir wrote: Honestly, this is all coming to mean "removing cloning necessitates remapping the entirety of Medbay".


Having played a round with a lot of casualties, yes. Medbay does not have any sort of flow, there is no place to store people waiting for treatment, treating people is done in a high as fuck traffic area because stasis beds are too good not to use.

Medbay needs a remap bad if doctors are expected to actually work instead of being glorified patch dispensers.

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