Families game mode feedback

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Denton
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Families game mode feedback

Postby Denton » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:30 am #543292

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/49274

Post all your feedback regarding the families game mode here.
I think goofball won't be able to respond since he's forum banned, but this way we can still collect feedback and suggestions.
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PostThis post was deleted by Tarchonvaagh on Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:45 am.
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PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:06 pm.
Reason: complain about the change not the dev

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby oranges » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:06 pm #543366

Complain about the change, not the dev.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby cacogen » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:55 am #543525

Don't like that it divides the station across gang lines. Interferes with the job gameplay. The whole mode seems childish and out of place. I hate the presence of the stars. Why are they visible on the title screen? How do we talk about them IC when they're a UI element? I'm not clear on what you're supposed to do either. The past incarnations of gangs you kill each other and tag territory. Tagging territory was fun. Getting killed wasn't. But at least it had purpose. It wasn't people wandering around aimlessly doing their best black voice.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Fatal » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:40 am #543562

Alright after running a round of this on events last night we got some feedback:

The direction the players are meant to take with it seem rather vague, and I had a lot of players asking me what the fuck they had to do, adding something the players can look at, say, an objective, in their notes, would go a long way to help remedy this

The github page also says it is meant to spawn 3 families, however our round last night spawned all 11, obviously that turned into a shitshow

Mindshielded people cannot join a family? At least it looked that way, that makes sense, however:

Can you mindshield people to remove them from a family? I also saw some family cyborgs which, obviously makes no sense, and the Captain and half of security spawned as roundstart families which I'm fairly sure was not intended, and was rather unfair to the other families

As for the space cops, an hour was too long last night, after about 40 minutes, most of the fighting on the station had stopped and it was just a long wait for the cops to arrive, and it wasn't clear to anyone that their sole objective was to hunt the family members, adding something so that admins can delay or speed up the cop timer would be most useful

The HUD icons are a little hard to see too, but that could have been mostly because we had 11 families and not 3

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Farquaar » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:45 am #543569

This is coming from the perspective of someone who played non-family and security on a couple of families rounds on Manuel.

The Good:
Spoiler:
It can be pretty fun playing security on a gang round if the department is well-staffed. The station is ridden with crime, and the perps are typically regular crewmen without any special edge. If you stand in a crowded place long enough, you'll probably see some arson or murder to deal with. Perma is quickly filled with grizzly crooks before some genius breaks open a window and kills everyone.

Additionally, there's a great degree of freedom on part of how families operate, so you do end up seeing a lot of creativity in how they accomplish their objectives. Rough brawls, suicide bombs and even just dissing their rivals in public- it's clear that there's a lot of room for fun if people want to have it.

Issue 1: Joining a gang doesn't mean much
Spoiler:
Security doesn't really care about gang affiliation- whether you're a member of the Triads, Italian Mafia, or some random greytider, you'll all get treated the same. As for the regular crew, nobody really fears gangsters unless one of them is dragging a tank of welding fuel.

Issue 2: Passive gangsters who don't do anything interesting
Spoiler:
It's common for large proportion of a family to be made up of "passive gangsters". These gangsters go about business-as-usual, paint the windows of their workstation and rarely contribute to anything exciting in the round.

Issue 3: Mechanics don't support interesting turf wars
Spoiler:
It's clear from the mode's design that gangsters aren't supposed to be hidden. Gangsters are encouraged to rep their colours and clearly label their territory. Gangs openly recruiting over common and murdering rivals in the halls is par for the course.

Despite their obvious presence, entering gang territory doesn't feel like you're entering gang territory. Gang turf either flips with no violence, or is inhabited by passive gangsters who repaint their windows whenever they walk by. Any violence that occurs between families is typically over affiliation, rather than turf.

Issue 4: Fluff
Spoiler:
Let's be honest, the fluff only really works as a placeholder. I don't hate the idea of a Space Mafia, but most families should try to correspond to a sci-fi setting. SS13 is a silly setting, so there's a lot of room for fun ideas here.

Recommendations (TLDR):
Spoiler:
Increase incentives for hanging with members of your crew. Families have strength in numbers, and the mode is most interesting when gangsters can flex their influence.

Claiming territory should be more than just a window decal. Turf should be bought with blood, sweat and tears- otherwise it's just a game of waiting for the other gang to leave so you can paint over their tags.

Scuffles over territory should be incentivized. Broadcasting a notification to an entire family when their territory is being claimed will have a double-effect of creating chaotic, goal-driven fights while also giving clear direction to passive gangsters.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby bandit » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:39 pm #543595

Farquaar wrote:This is coming from the perspective of someone who played non-family and security on a couple of families rounds on Manuel.

The Good:
Spoiler:
It can be pretty fun playing security on a gang round if the department is well-staffed. The station is ridden with crime, and the perps are typically regular crewmen without any special edge. If you stand in a crowded place long enough, you'll probably see some arson or murder to deal with. Perma is quickly filled with grizzly crooks before some genius breaks open a window and kills everyone.

Additionally, there's a great degree of freedom on part of how families operate, so you do end up seeing a lot of creativity in how they accomplish their objectives. Rough brawls, suicide bombs and even just dissing their rivals in public- it's clear that there's a lot of room for fun if people want to have it.

Issue 1: Joining a gang doesn't mean much
Spoiler:
Security doesn't really care about gang affiliation- whether you're a member of the Triads, Italian Mafia, or some random greytider, you'll all get treated the same. As for the regular crew, nobody really fears gangsters unless one of them is dragging a tank of welding fuel.

Issue 2: Passive gangsters who don't do anything interesting
Spoiler:
It's common for large proportion of a family to be made up of "passive gangsters". These gangsters go about business-as-usual, paint the windows of their workstation and rarely contribute to anything exciting in the round.

Issue 3: Mechanics don't support interesting turf wars
Spoiler:
It's clear from the mode's design that gangsters aren't supposed to be hidden. Gangsters are encouraged to rep their colours and clearly label their territory. Gangs openly recruiting over common and murdering rivals in the halls is par for the course.

Despite their obvious presence, entering gang territory doesn't feel like you're entering gang territory. Gang turf either flips with no violence, or is inhabited by passive gangsters who repaint their windows whenever they walk by. Any violence that occurs between families is typically over affiliation, rather than turf.

Issue 4: Fluff
Spoiler:
Let's be honest, the fluff only really works as a placeholder. I don't hate the idea of a Space Mafia, but most families should try to correspond to a sci-fi setting. SS13 is a silly setting, so there's a lot of room for fun ideas here.

Recommendations (TLDR):
Spoiler:
Increase incentives for hanging with members of your crew. Families have strength in numbers, and the mode is most interesting when gangsters can flex their influence.

Claiming territory should be more than just a window decal. Turf should be bought with blood, sweat and tears- otherwise it's just a game of waiting for the other gang to leave so you can paint over their tags.

Scuffles over territory should be incentivized. Broadcasting a notification to an entire family when their territory is being claimed will have a double-effect of creating chaotic, goal-driven fights while also giving clear direction to passive gangsters.


to be fair, a great deal of this applies to irl gangs
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:09 pm #548595

An idea I sort of toyed with minimally would be an evolution web for a gang based off their points, in which the gang leader(s?) determines which way they go. A gang can pursue a more passive route with net benefits for the gang (such as increased pay for gang members), or a more violent route with material strength (weapons and the like). Gangs could use either route in a beneficial or negative way for the station - such as contributing to station projects and gaining support, or terrorizing crew and gaining support that way. Each side has potential and neither is inherently good or bad, which I think is ideal for a roleplaying gamemode?

I haven't put too much thought into it but I think it has potential.
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Nabski » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:57 pm #548952

Someone tried to activate this outside the dedicated game mode and it did not work.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby chocolate_bickie » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:17 am #550125

It can be a little hard to tell who is in your gang. Gangs should have an easier time telling who is in their gang so that they can work together or guide each other. The symbol should only be visible between members of the same gang.

Having a way to check your current objectives would help.

Having a way to check who owns an area would help. Currently trying to spray paint a tagged area dosen't tell you if you own it or another gang does. Would be nice if there was a different message for trying to tag an area you already control.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby trollbreeder » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:28 pm #551854

Families takes too long because the round time was forced to 1 hour 15 minutes minimum. It's a waiting game until the spacepol arrive and shit's naturally fucked due to all the fighting and tiding.

My idea is to make the space cops arrive earlier and earlier depending on the star count.
55 minutes on 1 star, 50 minutes on 2 stars, 45 on 3, 40 on 4, and 35 on 5.
This disincentives gang RDM because da spess po po come for yo ass quicker, while also reducing the slog that is "waiting on the shuttle to die" if shit is truly fucked (like a station plasmaflood, or a mini-revolution from cargonia going bad)
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby BeeSting12 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:26 pm #551877

chocolate_bickie wrote:It can be a little hard to tell who is in your gang. Gangs should have an easier time telling who is in their gang so that they can work together or guide each other. The symbol should only be visible between members of the same gang.

according to goof this is a feature.
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby imsxz » Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:24 am #551981

Had an awesome experience on event hall earlier today in families. We were breaking into the vault to steal gold, ended up sparking a lot of conflicts with security and people helping them. The fights were exciting and tense, reminiscent of good rev rounds where a group of revs gets into a brawl with a squad of officers. The whole thing felt like a good and proper escalation.

Cue someone that didn’t read the rules becoming a gang member... About 30 minutes into the round, one of the family members plasma floods. There were no admins able to handle it, mind you, so this is a bit of a worst case scenario where we got unlucky. Regardless of it being against the rules, we had to wait through about 40 minutes of laggy hellhole with most of everyone dead, sitting on 6 stars from near the start of the flood. Left a poor taste in most people’s mouths after what had to that point been an exciting round.

Of course, most rounds won’t have plasma floods, however, the scale of time to wait is a big turn off for a lot of people. Even without plasma floods, a 90 person round can easily get upwards of 30 people dead by 30 minutes if a round has a lot going on. While this could be seen as incentive to try and keep things calm, that’s not something that will realistically be achieved with groups of players that can’t communicate well in a quick and easy manner(voice chat) combined with players that are used to fast paced and or higher action rounds.

I talked with some others that participated in the round. The ones I asked were on board with the idea of making the time limit scale against wanted level - each wanted star would cut off say 5 or 10 minutes from the timer. This wouldn’t at all enable people to call the shuttle ASAP after hearing that its families - they’d only be able to call it earlier if they killed a bunch of civilians(bannable) or waited for the gangs to do it(not within the shuttle callers control). For a lore reason, the space cops would be assembled faster due to the increasing casualties or whatever.

Hope this feedback helps.
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby steampunch » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:44 am #552475

There needs to be something that encourages security to not just hear "gangs" and instantly crack down, wordlessly flashbanging people and throwing them in perma. Currently all joining a gang does is paint a target on your head and force you to wear a stupid looking costume, and Space Police also have it rough because if security DOESN'T wordlessly crack down, the gangsters tend to spiral out of control and steamroll the cops.

Last families shift on Manuel, security decided to do the former and anyone who wanted to, you know, have fun with the gamemode instead of ignoring it, were tossed in jail regardless of how much crime they did or didn't do. Thing is, sec are allowed to do that and the wiki sort of encourages them to. There's usually nothing fun about being in perma all shift when security is watching you like a hawk, so its honestly just more attractive NOT to join a gang currently.

Also the gangs themselves could use some more love. Some of them look outright dumb from a sprite perspective and others don't have that b-grade knockoff style thing that so much of TG does well (they're called donk pockets, not hot pockets.) As much as I like RDR2, I don't really want to run around as carbon copy Dutch's Gang in SS13. To be clear, when I say dumb I mean goofier than just about everything around them, like Jack Bros.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby NoxVS » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:22 am #552476

Unfortunately I feel the mode is often ruined by people who just want to run around murdering. Had one round where I was a gang (The appearance of some need to be changed. Jack Bros are too clownish and I found it almost impossible to recruit people) and got into a conflict with one of the other gangs. Spent the rest of the round getting wordlessly gunned down / stabbed to death, revived, only to be killed 5 minutes later. In the round Steampunch mentioned, yes security was cracking down on gang. However one large factor was the RD breaking into sec, stealing the protolathe, and then later being arrested and saying they were doing it to get guns and kill all of security
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Flatulent » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:45 am #552482

steampunch wrote:There needs to be something that encourages security to not just hear "gangs" and instantly crack down, wordlessly flashbanging people and throwing them in perma. Currently all joining a gang does is paint a target on your head and force you to wear a stupid looking costume, and Space Police also have it rough because if security DOESN'T wordlessly crack down, the gangsters tend to spiral out of control and steamroll the cops.

Last families shift on Manuel, security decided to do the former and anyone who wanted to, you know, have fun with the gamemode instead of ignoring it, were tossed in jail regardless of how much crime they did or didn't do. Thing is, sec are allowed to do that and the wiki sort of encourages them to. There's usually nothing fun about being in perma all shift when security is watching you like a hawk, so its honestly just more attractive NOT to join a gang currently.

This is like complaining security cracks down on revolutions whenever they see them. This is part of the gameplay, since gang members are considered antags and their fight with security will be inevitable when they decide they want armory guns.
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby steampunch » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:02 am #552585

Flatulent wrote:
steampunch wrote:There needs to be something that encourages security to not just hear "gangs" and instantly crack down, wordlessly flashbanging people and throwing them in perma. Currently all joining a gang does is paint a target on your head and force you to wear a stupid looking costume, and Space Police also have it rough because if security DOESN'T wordlessly crack down, the gangsters tend to spiral out of control and steamroll the cops.

Last families shift on Manuel, security decided to do the former and anyone who wanted to, you know, have fun with the gamemode instead of ignoring it, were tossed in jail regardless of how much crime they did or didn't do. Thing is, sec are allowed to do that and the wiki sort of encourages them to. There's usually nothing fun about being in perma all shift when security is watching you like a hawk, so its honestly just more attractive NOT to join a gang currently.

This is like complaining security cracks down on revolutions whenever they see them. This is part of the gameplay, since gang members are considered antags and their fight with security will be inevitable when they decide they want armory guns.


The difference is stuff like revs or cult have mechanics that reinforce their ability to hide from or fight back against sec. Since gangsters are voluntary conversion only and don't actually have anything at their disposal, it's incredibly easy for security to stop them. For a dedicated gamemode this is a problem, because the main conflict it seems to want to focus on, AKA space police versus gangsters, is undermined. Revs and cult are primarily designed to fight sec, but gangsters are designed to fight eachother and the space police, not sec. In fact, you kind of supported what I said about how if security doesn't punish the gangsters, it's also a lose situation. So again, there needs to be SOMETHING to encourage security not to wordlessly crack down, whether it be a deterrent that makes them have to be smart about it, or less reason to fear gangs so they aren't forced to react.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby NoxVS » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:40 am #552607

Flatulent wrote:
steampunch wrote:There needs to be something that encourages security to not just hear "gangs" and instantly crack down, wordlessly flashbanging people and throwing them in perma. Currently all joining a gang does is paint a target on your head and force you to wear a stupid looking costume, and Space Police also have it rough because if security DOESN'T wordlessly crack down, the gangsters tend to spiral out of control and steamroll the cops.

Last families shift on Manuel, security decided to do the former and anyone who wanted to, you know, have fun with the gamemode instead of ignoring it, were tossed in jail regardless of how much crime they did or didn't do. Thing is, sec are allowed to do that and the wiki sort of encourages them to. There's usually nothing fun about being in perma all shift when security is watching you like a hawk, so its honestly just more attractive NOT to join a gang currently.

This is like complaining security cracks down on revolutions whenever they see them. This is part of the gameplay, since gang members are considered antags and their fight with security will be inevitable when they decide they want armory guns.

Revolutionaries are able to fight and kill members of security, but are gang members allowed to just decide to kill a guy on sight?
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby annoyinggreencatgirl » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:47 pm #552699

Farquaar wrote:Issue 4: Fluff
Let's be honest, the fluff only really works as a placeholder. I don't hate the idea of a Space Mafia, but most families should try to correspond to a sci-fi setting. SS13 is a silly setting, so there's a lot of room for fun ideas here.

steampunch wrote:Also the gangs themselves could use some more love. Some of them look outright dumb from a sprite perspective and others don't have that b-grade knockoff style thing that so much of TG does well (they're called donk pockets, not hot pockets.) As much as I like RDR2, I don't really want to run around as carbon copy Dutch's Gang in SS13. To be clear, when I say dumb I mean goofier than just about everything around them, like Jack Bros.

I haven't seen enough of this mode in action to offer many thoughts on the gameplay or policy, other than as sec I was pretty confused about what to do, but I think the above are good suggestions.

Some in-lore things that come to mind would be like, how about a wizard gang where they all wear wizard hats and robes, a weeb gang where they all get cat ears and school uniforms, a syndie gang that get obviously knockoff syndicate clothes of some sort, a xeno gang where they wear xeno helmets, a Donk-co gang that gets cardboard helmets/armor made out of Donk Pocket boxes, a chaplain gang, etc...?

Next time I see a round of this I hope to try and join it as a gang member.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Dezupher » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:08 am #554352

I like the idea of families in concept, but currently it just doesn't work in some areas.

The idea that it was designed with RP and Manuel in mind doesn't seem to be working since a lot of Manuel players absolutely HATE the game mode for sometimes poor reasons. Players will outright always refuse to participate in any of the gangs, and gang members will be very passive and rarely do anything with the role in the first place. I've watched sole gang members run around trying to recruit people, only for virtually everyone to decline. Or for people to say sure, use the book then go about their job as normal and never do anything else. Also Manuel almost never has 40+ players ready at round start currently, so the game mode will almost never roll in the first place, it's extremely rare.

In the few times I've played in families and from observing it, space cops and security sometimes seem lost on what to do. Security either twiddles their thumbs while gangs run around, or just start arresting them all thinking people can be arrested for simply being in a gang even if they haven't really done anything bad yet. The police are rather directionless beyond "get those darn gangsters" and often it just boils down to them hunting down all the gang members and either arresting or killing them, regardless of what they've done or how they try to respond. I've also seen situations where the Space Cops start rounding up all of the gang members without killing them rather quickly, the shuttle was never called, the brig is just full of gang members, and no one really knows where to go from there.

I feel like giving the Space Cops very clear direction on what to do with the gang members they capture would be good. An idea is to essentially give them a special ship, similar to the bounty hunters. They would have to bring the gang members back to and transport them off there, either just sticking them in a device like the gulag teleporter, removing them from the round, or just holding them there in a special prison on the ship. You could call it the Police Cruiser 8-) and turn Space Cops into a ghost role with a spawner rather than a poll, so players could get back into the round as a cop later on, number of spawners scaling with player count and wanted level of course. Giving one space cop the "Police Chief" rank who's goal is to be the leader of the police and attempt to coordinate them could be interesting as well, though with how often roles like the ERT commander (and all of command for that matter) end up ignored this might not actually do anything, but it could add flavor. And Space Police aren't affiliated with NT at all, it doesn't make a lot of sense flavor wise for them to be evacuating with the gangsters on the shuttle. Now that I'm describing it, I'm literally just describing the fugitive hunters right now, except not shitty.
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby oranges » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:54 pm #554459

You wait 1 year and I guarantee people will claim families is the soul of tg

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Shadowflame909 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:04 pm #554947

Feedback from playing on Manuel.

Plays out like a case of "Regular greytiders who are toeing the valid line" since being a gangster isn't illegal until you do something illegal and gangsters being disincentivized to cause destruction or murder. Quite literally the two conflict causing things in every other round-type. Leaving us with a morally weird grey area of tension but no dangerous action. Making it a horror movie fans extended.

This all ends with the police come, breaking the tension and turning it into a fight or flight scenario. Where the police takeover sec and will perma/murder you, Leading the gangsters to murder/strip and disarm.

I recommend completely disenfranchising the police from security by removing their security access and their ability to speak with security comms. Give them their own comms but allow them to hear security if you want. Similar to the way traitors can hear sec. This'll turn it into a tension-filled 1v1v1 instead of a slowball Revs.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Shadowflame909 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:40 am #555255

Played as an undercover space police today. Here are my thoughts.

1. The role needs more stuff to play with.

You've given them a re-colored sec jumpsuit and a hat so their allies in an hour will be able to identify them. But they actually need something to play with. Give them a stealth implant, or a shadowcloak. Some items to better help them stalk gangs/sec and make writing out their actions more exciting.

2. There's no tension for it.

It's supposed to be the snitch I guess. 1 hour in tell literally everything that happened to the cops and influence what they do. Until then it's literally just a regular crewmember, also anyone can effectively do that objective. Completely remove the role, all the space police would have to do is ask crewmembers " How have the gangsters been?" and quite easily would the role be made unnecessary.

I suggest in the initial gangster announcement you make them valid. Thus giving them a reason to keep their identity secret, and raise the stakes. This or just in the initial gangster flavor text mention that they really really don't like space cops.

3. Its objectives aren't inputted into its memory.

If you reconnect/the round goes on too long. You can't pull up your objectives. Their simple though, watch sec, watch gangs, snitch. Still though, if you want it to be more then a background piece. Put the objectives into its memory/notes button.

TLDR: Like how the gangsters are just regular assistants. Not yet valid but on the curbstone. The undercover police officer is just a regular dude with nothing going for them. Not even the fun of greytiding like an assistant like the gangsters. It's not a very engaging role when things would be exactly the same without it existing.

Edit: Ah. I played on Manuel and apparently on LRP all the antags are actually valid. Including space-cop, maybe there's more tension there.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Ikoden » Tue May 05, 2020 12:53 pm #560658

Im copypasting my feedback from github.


So I dont know if its being developed, but I would suggest:
1. give some kind of uplink to families, so they can get weapons like in gangs,
2.give some purpose for the families, i just didnt know what to do as a member,\
2a) it was more clear when you were gangster:
2a1). you spray shit and destroy others sprayed shit
2a2). gangs gets more points
2a3). kill other gangies and sec
2a4). you place dominator at the end

Everyone knew what they were doing. In case of families it's either 1) people are new to families and dont know what they have to do ant thus confused 2) the objective is not clear enough.
3.involve somehow security in the game, maybe remove the police or somehow make it work with security.
In the state as it is, families is just a FULL CONFUSION FOR EVERYNOE MODE. Noone knows what to do.,
Just my 2 cents. If it isnt developed then nevermind.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby oranges » Wed May 06, 2020 1:09 am #560703

The gamemode isn't focused on objective play, it's an RP mode.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Shadowflame909 » Wed May 06, 2020 4:11 am #560733

It can be whatever it wants to be. But it needs mechanics or it won't be fun.

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Wed May 06, 2020 7:38 am #560744

make gang name and clothes customizable instead of pop culture references

make contraband uplink have a more interesting list (gunz and knifes) during the gamemode so gang people can ask/steal cash from not gangers for things and have real roleplay with people instead of playing splatoon and toelining griefing sec out of boredom

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Ikoden » Wed May 06, 2020 12:15 pm #560760

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:
make contraband uplink have a more interesting list (gunz and knifes) during the gamemode so gang people can ask/steal cash from not gangers for things and have real roleplay with people instead of playing splatoon and toelining griefing sec out of boredom


This is an awesome idea.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Helios » Wed May 06, 2020 2:38 pm #560769

Families still seems to lack some elements of an identity.
Perhaps a solution would be drug dealing. Giving each gang member the ability to exchange credits for Narcotics
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_c ... #Narcotics
Prices would have to be balanced, but would contribute a game mode identity. And given these are drugs chemists can already make, it fits within the idea of "perps are typically regular crewmen without any special edge.", if you recruit a chemist to make your drugs, you don't need to buy them through the upload, and can make more money selling them to the rest of the crew. The flexibility as a gang member of buying drugs through your PDA and getting them immediately will give you an edge, but one that anyone else could have gotten with some prep

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Shadowflame909 » Wed May 06, 2020 4:52 pm #560787

Helios wrote:Families still seems to lack some elements of an identity.
Perhaps a solution would be drug dealing. Giving each gang member the ability to exchange credits for Narcotics
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_c ... #Narcotics
Prices would have to be balanced, but would contribute a game mode identity. And given these are drugs chemists can already make, it fits within the idea of "perps are typically regular crewmen without any special edge.", if you recruit a chemist to make your drugs, you don't need to buy them through the upload, and can make more money selling them to the rest of the crew. The flexibility as a gang member of buying drugs through your PDA and getting them immediately will give you an edge, but one that anyone else could have gotten with some prep


These drugs would have to be the addicting kind though

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Helios » Wed May 06, 2020 5:10 pm #560790

Shadowflame909 wrote:
Helios wrote:Families still seems to lack some elements of an identity.
Perhaps a solution would be drug dealing. Giving each gang member the ability to exchange credits for Narcotics
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_c ... #Narcotics
Prices would have to be balanced, but would contribute a game mode identity. And given these are drugs chemists can already make, it fits within the idea of "perps are typically regular crewmen without any special edge.", if you recruit a chemist to make your drugs, you don't need to buy them through the upload, and can make more money selling them to the rest of the crew. The flexibility as a gang member of buying drugs through your PDA and getting them immediately will give you an edge, but one that anyone else could have gotten with some prep


These drugs would have to be the addicting kind though

"Narcotics are highly addictive drugs that can aggressively, or passively, provide a benefit. Be wary as its very easy to become addicted, or overdose, on a narcotic.

As a general rule of thumb, the more of a positive effect (or any effect) a narcotic can provide, the easier it is to get addicted or overdose on it.

People who overdose or get addicted to Narcotics tend to usually end up dying to the negative effects or requiring immedient medical attention. Take in moderation. "
That's how it exists now, but I suppose that Syndi brand drugs would have higher addiction rates.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby nianjiilical » Thu May 07, 2020 8:39 am #560958

i have literally never seen this mode appear on dynamic, i dont know if thats normal or if im just unlucky
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby trollbreeder » Thu May 07, 2020 9:14 am #560961

nianjiilical wrote:i have literally never seen this mode appear on dynamic, i dont know if thats normal or if im just unlucky

families is not part of dynamic because its like an admin event: other antagonists spawning in would ruin it and it spawning midround would be a complete shitshow
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Anuv » Thu May 07, 2020 9:39 am #560967

what if the heads get to spawn money printers and they had to make a base in maint with their gang and protect the printers and if the head collects like 100k on their ID they get a murder squad reinforcement I know that sounds gmod RP as hell but it might be fun
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby nianjiilical » Thu May 07, 2020 10:40 am #560976

trollbreeder wrote:
nianjiilical wrote:i have literally never seen this mode appear on dynamic, i dont know if thats normal or if im just unlucky

families is not part of dynamic because its like an admin event: other antagonists spawning in would ruin it and it spawning midround would be a complete shitshow


oh okay, good to know

i do hope some form of it ends up being made for dynamic someday but id understand if its not worth the effort making two versions of one gamemode
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby MisterPerson » Fri May 08, 2020 3:06 am #561057

nianjiilical wrote:i have literally never seen this mode appear on dynamic, i dont know if thats normal or if im just unlucky


For technical reasons, families doesn't work as part of dynamic. Goof is working on integrating it at some point.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.

Why realism is stupid:
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Immersion/flavor is playing a WW2 shooter and using a mosin-nagant instead of a laser gun - this is important.

Realism is playing a WW2 shooter and having to spend 2 months in hospital everytime you get shot - stupid and detrimental to gameplay. Nobody actually wants a realistic game, which is why realism arguments are so selectively used.
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Ikoden » Sat May 09, 2020 8:49 am #561176

First of all, I would like to say that my intention is not to offend anyone.

So sometimes people put heart and soul into some idea, work really hard on it, try to make it as good as possible. However, the thing turns out not to be as good as thought to be, people try to work on it and convince others that it's really good, while this is not the case. I think the idea here is families mode. It needs heavy rework to be good. Even though it's an RP mode, not objective one, it needs some solid mechanics to work.

EDIT
How to improve families while still making it RP oriented, while having objectives? As some people suggested, make it based around credits. There is no gamemode focused on credits. Imagine, people robbing others for credits. Using the credits to buy cool stuff and weapons. Sounds dope.

EDIT2
Imagine having to pay 100 credits for protection as cook every 10 minutes to some family. Hahahaha.

EDIT3
The idea about narcotics is also ultra good. Make some drugs that give bonuses and some downsides just for families mode. Sell them for credits.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Helios » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:00 am #565645

The last round of families we had involved SWAT hunting down and shooting every gangster to resolve the Hostile environment and allow the shuttle to leave after being docked for 15 minutes.
What did people think would happen when the message is
"Hostile environment detected. Departure has been postponed indefinitely pending conflict resolution." and you have two teams with guns?
The shuttle delay breaks the mode. At least with the original gangs, putting down a dominator was the only way to stop the shuttle from taking off.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Ikoden » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:08 am #565706

I must say I played families yesterday and had fun! The roleplay gamemode is something new and refreshing. I still think it's kinda confusing but I start to genuinely like it.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Reeeee » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:11 pm #565889

But, why? Are.... Are we somehow supposed to care? About any of it?

There's no gameplay loop here, it's just you being loaded with extra rules in an incoherent format (i would need to try to be as incoherent as that wall-of-text) and you being valid for murder at anytime for any reason whatsoever. But there's nothing to create any conflict as all you do is *exist* and then maybe get killed in something unrelated? And then people who have every reason to kill you for existing show up?
Meanwhile there's absolutely zero reason to join a gang in the first place. I don't think spacecops care you are innocent either, so fucked if you do, fucked if you don't. That's gonna go over fucking well with normal people trying to make sense of SS13 as it is.
I'd rather take a green shift if I want to roleplay instead, where nobody forces me to play from a "toddlers first campaign setting rulebook original content do no steal", thanks.

We'll talk in like six months if there is anything to feedback to.
Right now it's a wall-of-text and old gang mode tagging system pasted into it with a "very valid for reasons that you all suck" dsquad killing everyone in the end. (with no weapons)

Here's a hot take on what could work in it;

Put a pre-coded (optionally elective) hypnoflash in, give it to gangboss, put an objective on the hypnomessage to fight other gangs for reason that "THEY SUCK", stamina critting someone deconverts them, and kills increase "heat" or "stars" or whatever you want to call it so that there's a point to consolidate power to a one gang without murder and fight over supremacy and stay OUT of bad heat. More members, more neat non-lethal tools you get like stamina regen boosting boombox someone has to operate for it to work and like a passive temp health that gets bigger the more gangers you have in the same screen as you to prevent death. Stamina damage over lethal damage as gameplay instead of "shotgun go brr haha people get removed höhö".
You can't stay out of a gang cus gangs are superior, better your gang is, safer you are. And there's the OTHER gang on station so you better choose sides if you want to survive this.
And nobody is fucking killed because of it unless of course something (as it always does) goes horribly sideways and the stars are creeping up so you don't really need to CARE about non-lethal anymore so the fucking shit escalates to cray-cray levels for bagil and can be kept nicely more levelheaded on manuel with some slight attitude adjustments from admins instead of separate codebase fuckery.
IN SPACE.
And if gangs go super violent route, all the people they murdered then get to come back and enact baton on these gang fucks as the cops and salt levels are downgraded cus now you get to metagrudge the ganger fuck who murdered you FNR and we get less ahelps for mins.

Wait, i came that up in fifteen minutes, fuck. At least I didn't sperg-merge any of it before it was coded. Good on me.
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Ikoden » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:33 pm #566047

Okay. I find families ultra fun! Just got a question about being undercover cop. Should I help the gang I am under cover in? Like if they hurt the family I'm in should I help them and fight alongside them? Should I fight enemies of my 'family?' I wasn't sure about it. It kinda makes sense. I asked admin and he said that I should probably help the family I "joined".

EDIT

I love how chaotic families are. It's pure chaos. I like it.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby py01 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:12 pm #566628

The mode doesn't feel like it works on non-manuel servers. The objectives might be interesting to pursue on the rp-servers, but most of the objectives are not inherently fun to pursue. For example, the russian gang objective doesn't even require antagonistic action to complete. It seems that a majority of people join the gang, and then being a full antag, start murderboning.

Given the statements about being an RP-focused mode, the solution may just be to remove it from dynamic rotation on those servers.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Booktower » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:25 pm #567716

oranges wrote:The gamemode isn't focused on objective play, it's an RP mode.

I don't think this can work with our current playerbase. It also feels like the mode is far too common currently (on Terry) for people to put in the effort of RPing things out.

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby oranges » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:02 pm #567983

I don't care what you think admin

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Cobby » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:06 pm #568009

can someone go on the families policy thread and answer my question regarding what are people looking at that thinks they have a right to murderbone and mass sabotage on a team antag mode.
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Jack7D1 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:50 pm #568018

As an admin I say listen to oranges.
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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Shadowflame909 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:15 pm #568031

Cobby wrote:can someone go on the families policy thread and answer my question regarding what are people looking at that thinks they have a right to murderbone and mass sabotage on a team antag mode.


Mode is revs without its MRP policy

mode is just tension filled greytide with its MRP policy

Mode needs more mechanics to fill out its gray area. That is all

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Re: Families game mode feedback

Postby Flatulent » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:33 pm #568154

any voluntary conversion game mode will suck balls by default
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