Medical Doctors are a mistake.

[Shadowflame909]

Medical Doctors rely on saving the crew from peril and patching them up.

Thus, when you give them content. You have to lower the Quality of Life for everyone else.

You add a chance of bone destruction, organ failure, random strokes, heart attacks, violently combusting, etc, etc. All these things only bring said player who experiences them out of the game, effectively putting it on pause for them. So another player can click them with a scalpel and retractor a couple of times mindlessly?

This job sucks, It doesn't incentivize fun it literally only exists to slow the game down and put players on a waiting list.

The worst part? It radically changes an important aspect of the game, Destruction, and Mania, for the worst. Now antagonists are on top, having instant access to healing methods to ignore the same waiting times and strife non-antagonists deal with. Or, their tools become more useless to less effectively bring people to the boring AFK broken bones state.

From systems like these, you get entire rules and admin teams telling you not to buy an e-sword because no one wants to wait 30 minutes healing all that damage you did in a couple of seconds.

Death can have consequences. But living should not be annoying.

So, TLDR: Screw Doctors, Screw BayMed. Screw a system that only serves to give more gameplay when another player is forced to enjoy less of it. Due to paralysis from excruciating wounds. Doctors at best should just be merged with other jobs. So there's less of a focus on giving doctors more "content". Since that just takes away from the game as a whole.

It wouldn't be a stretch to say the surgery room has similar faults to Lavaland in terms of separation from the core aspects of this game.

[Helios]

How's this as a "new deal".
Replace each security office with a medical one. Have each department have an assigned medical personnel, and supplies to deal with basic toxin/burn/brute damage. Have the medical supplies available be not usable on yourself, but rely on another person using it on you, targeting your injured area. Medbay is for treatment of people who are already dead, and require more specialized medical treatment, or for surgeries.

[Shadowflame909]

Having medical being departmentalized so it doesn't force your round into full stop.

Might be worth testing out.

[Shaps-cloud]

This is a valuable post because it lets content creators know who to ignore

[Shadowflame909]

This is a valuable post because it lets content creators know who to ignore

If all /co/tent creators ignore me. They won't be able to give valid criticism when I start changing their content.

[NecromancerAnne]

Rogue-like spess time. You injured? Fuck you!

[wesoda25]

To think, God must have once stood in a dawn of infinite possibility and chose to make a world where I have to read shadowflames posts

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Risking grievous injury from combat makes unga-ing more exciting. Especially when you're the guy causing the brutal injuries.

[Shadowflame909]

Risking grievous injury from combat makes unga-ing more exciting. Especially when you're the guy causing the brutal injuries.

who tf......................................................................


adds downtime to a video game

[BeeSting12]

It just forces a different style of play. Instead of tanking as many hits as you want, you have to be more selective about your targets and utilize more stealth. This will probably result in a lot of really effective murderbones until everything is balanced, but after that, I'd imagine it would be easier to stop a murderboner since it's no longer a "sandbag of health" that you can just refill at the nearest first aid kit.

It also means you need to be more decisive about engaging in a tool box slap fight.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Risking grievous injury from combat makes unga-ing more exciting. Especially when you're the guy causing the brutal injuries.

who tf......................................................................


adds downtime to a video game

Lmao have you ever played a pvp game in your life?

[Shadowflame909]

Risking grievous injury from combat makes unga-ing more exciting. Especially when you're the guy causing the brutal injuries.

who tf......................................................................


adds downtime to a video game

Lmao have you ever played a pvp game in your life?

Bro. PVP Games have a respawn time of 3 - 5 seconds.

Not 30 minutes to never

And they certainly don't have annoying mechanics. Like a permanently colored screen. Or permanently slowed movement or permanently less health.

It just forces a different style of play. Instead of tanking as many hits as you want, you have to be more selective about your targets and utilize more stealth. This will probably result in a lot of really effective murderbones until everything is balanced, but after that, I'd imagine it would be easier to stop a murderboner since it's no longer a "sandbag of health" that you can just refill at the nearest first aid kit.

The core concept of rebalancing everything around the game being more annoying to play sickens me!

Most of the time things don't get rebalanced. They just get restricted by the rules, if MRP and HRP servers are anything to go by.

Looking at bay-med on paradise and bay. Can't even use an e-sword over there on a security officer hunting you without getting bwoinked.

[NecromancerAnne]

Shadowflame this isn't just a PvP game this is a sim roleplay game for fucks sake. You can't just duck behind a fridge and wait out the jam spilled on your screen to disappear.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

3-5 seconds.

There are other games than cock of dooty man. This is one of them.

[Shadowflame909]

Shadowflame this isn't just a PvP game this is a sim roleplay game for fucks sake. You can't just duck behind a fridge and wait out the jam spilled on your screen to disappear.

Yeah true. I wasn't thinking about the fact that people do other things then fight antags and kill people as antags.

I still feel that medbay sucks as a concept though. Ain't no roleplaying when you're in crit for 30 minutes!

And it only gets worse when more things get added to it.

3-5 seconds.

There are other games than cock of dooty man. This is one of them.

Name 3 games that you can't instantly HOP back into after dying. Including SS13.

Edit: Yes tho. This was made in reaction to that wounds PR.

It's like surviving some traitor BS, shouting to the world "I lived bitch!" and the world responding by torturing you for surviving that dual e-sword.

Game cringe

[Shaps-cloud]

Git gud

[Shadowflame909]

Git gud

Powergamers getting n*rfed and salted at by the entire server

surviving getting n*rfed to give medbay content

you cant win

[Super Aggro Crag]

its not about winning retard

[Shadowflame909]

you can't play either

because im afking in medbay for 30 minutes as the doctor heals my broken bones

Whos the gamer thats adding bay-med to /tg/

I wanna go into their DMs and try to give them a run down on why this is bad with examples from paradise and bay

[Super Aggro Crag]

avoid conflict then retard

[Shadowflame909]

The entire game is conflict! It is simply predisposed in such a way that anyone could be starting the conflict! A monkey, a shapeshifter, your coworker, anyone!

This feels like one of the pitfalls of having multiple designers.

Conflicted messages leaving you trapped in an unfun scenario such as this.

Edit: Anyways to summarize my slippery slope baymed is HRP argument

All you gotta do is go on paradise/bay and have any combat interaction there. As soon as you take any injury, gameplay dies and you are forced to afk in a surgery room.

Heck, you don't even have to go on the server. Just look at the paradise closed ban appeals. Combat is IMO is locked up and limited, with a lot of players getting banned for causing "unnecessary injury"

Wounds aren't fun and destroy gameplay for everyone. The victims, and the attackers.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Vermintide/left4dead

Counter strike (all of them)

Pretty much any strategy game that isnt head to head

I'd throw in mobas too when death timers go over a minute.

People dying gives an advantage to someone else because they have one less problem to deal with. You are the sacrifice to the gods so that other less unfortunate players can have dramatic tension. What's the point in sawing someone in half if they just get back up?

[Super Aggro Crag]

The entire game is conflict! It is simply predisposed in such a way that anyone could be starting the conflict! A monkey, a shapeshifter, your coworker, anyone!

This feels like one of the pitfalls of having multiple designers.

Conflicted messages leaving you trapped in an unfun scenario such as this.

Edit: Anyways to summarize my slippery slope baymed is HRP argument

All you gotta do is go on paradise/bay and have any combat interaction there. As soon as you take any injury, gameplay dies and you are forced to afk in a surgery room.

Heck, you don't even have to go on the server. Just look at the paradise closed ban appeals. Combat is IMO is locked up and limited, with a lot of players getting banned for causing "unnecessary injury"

Wounds aren't fun and destroy gameplay for everyone. The victims, and the attackers.

then dont get wounded and get robust dweeb

[confused rock]

This is a valuable post because

I see where you're going with this, it's important to see why people could dislike something if, at minimum, so you can remind yourself why you disagree and why they're wrong

it lets content creators know who to ignore

Fantastic fucking point shaps, before seeing this I never would've thought that shaps made worse posts than fucking shadowflame. now I see the light. shaps posts are worthless

[Flatulent]

> get hit once
> your asshole ruptures and you lose all your blood in a matter of seconds

thank you coders, very cool.

There is now ONE MORE mechanic MDs have to learn even while most are still incapable of doing normal surgery, and there is no wiki explaining it lmfao so naturally they don’t know how to deal with it

[oranges]

respondees as expected

[actioninja]

> get hit once
> your asshole ruptures and you lose all your blood in a matter of seconds

thank you coders, very cool.

There is now ONE MORE mechanic MDs have to learn even while most are still incapable of doing normal surgery, and there is no wiki explaining it lmfao so naturally they don’t know how to deal with it

There's literally a shitload of mechanics to explain exactly how to treat injuries in game.

[confused rock]

ok then why did a doctor take so long to fix my concussion with zero brain damage that I ended up getting up during surgery and asking a chemist to make neurine instead and he did it in 30 seconds

[Shaps-cloud]

because even god himself couldn't fix the brain damage you're saddled with

[Shadowflame909]

Vermintide/left4dead

Counter strike (all of them)

Pretty much any strategy game that isnt head to head

I'd throw in mobas too when death timers go over a minute.

People dying gives an advantage to someone else because they have one less problem to deal with. You are the sacrifice to the gods so that other less unfortunate players can have dramatic tension. What's the point in sawing someone in half if they just get back up?

True. I'll give you that Dying has constantly been used as a gameplay mechanic to decrease the number of enemies someone might have.

But being wounded permanently until you get surgery?

This is quite the most illogical gameplay change because dying itself sorta already expects you to be AFK and out of the game. Since you are in fact out of the game.

When you survive an antagonist, maybe an explosion, or just some sort of crazy event of SS13. You now have to go to the surgery room anyways and self-afk until the doctor gets to you and makes you all better?

That's a janky pause in the round you have to take because you survived a conflict. And the person who is supposed to be getting something out of you being forced to go AFK, "The Medical Doctor" isn't getting anything engaging out of it either. Because he has to deal with more catatonic bodies and scalpel retractor them a couple of times.

It's not engaging, It doesn't flow with the game, and it's effectively a big Slow Down mechanic that shouldn't exist on /TG/. HRP most certainly, but pausing and slowing down the game after every major antag event?

No..this is just going to lead to some salty murderbone creep.

Don't even get me started on how this same mechanic would work on HRP nuke ops, but rolfstomp into a saltpile on /tg/ nukeops.

[Taraiph]

I have a better idea.

Don't run around trying to kill people or get in fights.
Go AFK and watch netflix if the tend wounds takes too long.
Stay out my medbay storage.
Learn to roleplay as someone whose head is used for more than target practice.
Learn medbay yourself if you really hate how other people suck at literally everything to do with it.
Code a better solution if it's that odious.
Gitgud.

[Shadowflame909]

I have a better idea.

Don't run around trying to kill people or get in fights.
Go AFK and watch netflix if the tend wounds takes too long.
Stay out my medbay storage.
Learn to roleplay as someone whose head is used for more than target practice.
Learn medbay yourself if you really hate how other people suck at literally everything to do with it.
Code a better solution if it's that odious.
Gitgud.

Why is every supposed solution in this thread "don't play the game."

PR bad.

[Ayy Lemoh]

Go AFK and watch netflix if the tend wounds takes too long.

That's literally what he wants to avoid though. That's not even a solution he would want to consider.

Are you guys mobile game developers or something except without microtransactions to add in for making the game play faster?

What the fuck are you expected to do anyways if combat is meant for The Good Players (™) anyways? I mean I like roleplay and shit however I feel like the more that actually winning a fight is punished, the more that it punishes shit like:
- simplemob combat
- away missions
- fighting antags like nuke ops, cult, or any antag where not fighting them means you'll die anyways.
- tomfoolery [someone pushing me into a table in a very specific way caused me to have both my legs broken. what.]
- rage cage fights [Manuel not included]
- not powergaming

My main concern is away missions. I feel like a requirement of an away mission should not be to have a fully stocked state-of-the-art medbay that is in an arm's reach OR to have the enemies only do one damage per hit because otherwise the players will get 500,000 broken bones in their brain stem with internal bleeding in their left foot. I'll admit that I don't exactly know how lethal wounds here can be because I don't fucking try to get myself fucked up so I can roll on the rng wheel to determine these things, but it feels like that it's basically punishing any form of fun that isn't going to the bar and typing out some paragraphs.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I do not like suffering the consequences of ym actions

do not act in such a manner and you will not

ARE YOU TELLING ME I SHOULDN'T PLAY THE GAME?!

yes if you fucking hate it so much go play on some retard server where everyone spawns with medibeam guns so you can click people horizontal with your pocket medic and not have to worry about losing, you blubbering abscess. Sorry you cant just save scum and reload the whole server every time you fucking fail, mongo. Im sure everyone else should just have to suffer your fucking bull shit and never be able to disable you to stop you from fucking up their game experience, how can they be so inconsiderate of your fucking NEED to valid

[Shadowflame909]

Thank you, Ayy Lemoh.

I thought I was going crazy with how little construction upon my thoughts actually happened.

Just all deconstructive criticism.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Eat the corn kernels out of my shit, people provide criticism and explain to you why your desired playstyle would be absolute fucking cancer and you fucking piss and moan about it and whinge until people ad-hom you because you're a hagfish

I feel lesions forming on my brain every time i read one of your posts, you practically radiate retardation

[Ayy Lemoh]

yes if you fucking hate it so much go play on some retard server where everyone spawns with medibeam guns so you can click people horizontal with your pocket medic and not have to worry about losing, you blubbering abscess. Sorry you cant just save scum and reload the whole server every time you fucking fail, mongo. Im sure everyone else should just have to suffer your fucking bull shit and never be able to disable you to stop you from fucking up their game experience, how can they be so inconsiderate of your fucking NEED to valid

Crag, if this is directed towards me then I hope it's only for the not powergaming part or team antag part (it would be absurd if everyone just acted neutral/passive during war ops or some shit). Away missions or map ruins, while potentially detrimental once people get loot from them and go back on station, are basically PvE content where validing a dumb npc should be less shitty than validing living players.

I assume you mean failure as in getting hurt in this case since the point of this thread isn't "i died wtf consequences??" at all. It changes what happens to the living mostly, not those who are already dead. Well, being hurt isn't really what people would want to save scum for since they're still alive. The only thing that would be save scummable is doing all your attacks from a distance, but that's not really an option for most people.

Once again, I'm mostly concerned about what is basically PvE content. Away missions are fun for events which can entertain the server, but I don't want them to just be fucking annoying meat grinders unless you are the ultimate powergamer. It's more fun when it's done in groups after all.

[Super Aggro Crag]

yes if you fucking hate it so much go play on some retard server where everyone spawns with medibeam guns so you can click people horizontal with your pocket medic and not have to worry about losing, you blubbering abscess. Sorry you cant just save scum and reload the whole server every time you fucking fail, mongo. Im sure everyone else should just have to suffer your fucking bull shit and never be able to disable you to stop you from fucking up their game experience, how can they be so inconsiderate of your fucking NEED to valid

Crag, if this is directed towards me then I hope it's only for the not powergaming part or team antag part (it would be absurd if everyone just acted neutral/passive during war ops or some shit). Away missions or map ruins, while potentially detrimental once people get loot from them and go back on station, are basically PvE content where validing a dumb npc should be less shitty than validing living players.

I assume you mean failure as in getting hurt in this case since the point of this thread isn't "i died wtf consequences??" at all. It changes what happens to the living mostly, not those who are already dead. Well, being hurt isn't really what people would want to save scum for since they're still alive. The only thing that would be save scummable is doing all your attacks from a distance, but that's not really an option for most people.

Once again, I'm mostly concerned about what is basically PvE content. Away missions are fun for events which can entertain the server, but I don't want them to just be fucking annoying meat grinders unless you are the ultimate powergamer. It's more fun when it's done in groups after all.

Nah dude you're fine its directed at shadowflame

[Qustinnus]

This is a valuable post because it lets content creators know who to ignore

If all /co/tent creators ignore me. They won't be able to give valid criticism when I start changing their content.

your prs would be closed and would probably be poorly made

[Shadowflame909]

This is a valuable post because it lets content creators know who to ignore

If all /co/tent creators ignore me. They won't be able to give valid criticism when I start changing their content.

your prs would be closed and would probably be poorly made

how could you say this

when your gonna be bribed to make my PRs

[Qustinnus]

This is a valuable post because it lets content creators know who to ignore

If all /co/tent creators ignore me. They won't be able to give valid criticism when I start changing their content.

your prs would be closed and would probably be poorly made

how could you say this

when your gonna be bribed to make my PRs

i dont do un-mergeable bounties.

[Shadowflame909]

Anything is mergable as long as your willing to give and take.

I just want a foot in the door.

[EOBGames]

If there's one thing that's not gonna get merged, it's gonna be something that completely walks back/undoes all of the medical changes that have been made.

Especially when the design docs, supported by oranges, define a path that's almost entirely different to the stuff you're suggesting.

[Shadowflame909]

post the medical design doc senior

so I can adjust my ideals of medical to be more conforming.

Edit: or at least find a solution that doesn't interfere with it.

[oranges]

Shadow it's on the hackmd account for tgstation

[Shadowflame909]

Okay gonna have to scrap this one boys

Its back to the drawing board

[Cobby]

Medical Doctors rely on saving the crew from peril and patching them up.

Thus, when you give them content. You have to lower the Quality of Life for everyone else.

You add a chance of bone destruction, organ failure, random strokes, heart attacks, violently combusting, etc, etc. All these things only bring said player who experiences them out of the game, effectively putting it on pause for them. So another player can click them with a scalpel and retractor a couple of times mindlessly?

I agree with this and I don't think this is some revolutionary discovery, in fact I've mentioned this several times in various PRs and have even mentioned this in the design doc made about a month ago.

MD, like sec, is reliant on the crew fucking up OR antags fucking things up. Medical also has to teeter between giving power to the doctor nigh-exclusively but not make the aspect so monopolized that "the patient doesn’t ever get to practically play the round again".

As for quality of life, I don't know what this is trying to say. If you mean quality of life to mean what you can do before you start getting effectively punished then sure. I don't think this is a bad thing anymore than the argument that we should remove progression because it just creates an arbitrary obstacle before you get the gear you desire. The point of both of these mechanics is to force you to make decisions, including some you may not enjoy making (or perhaps the choice is completely out of your hands, like a traitor silently old ebowing you and btfoing you from the round). I actually think these kind of unforgiving mechanics is what makes the game fun and exhilarating for the player, hence why people tend to enjoy antag/validhunting/lavaland/combat.

This job sucks, It doesn't incentivize fun it literally only exists to slow the game down and put players on a waiting list.

The job incentivizes approaching situations differently. You could argue having any medical system acts as a deterrent to being in a virtual valhallah where you perpetually fight. Yes, by nature it is a role that incentivizes you to make smart decisions in how to approach situations / punishes you for making a poor decision in how you approach a situation.

The worst part? It radically changes an important aspect of the game, Destruction, and Mania, for the worst. Now antagonists are on top, having instant access to healing methods to ignore the same waiting times and strife non-antagonists deal with. Or, their tools become more useless to less effectively bring people to the boring AFK broken bones state.

It makes destruction and mania that much more satiable since it means there's an inherit risk of being destructive and chaotic. Basically from this I get "the worst part is you made these actions /matter/".

As for antag power, I could care less. If you want to tone them down to reflect the main aspect of the game, be my guest. I'd happily bring antags to a power level I feel is appropriate with the rest of the game, as i've done numerous times in the past. I would be more inclined to appreciate this comment had you made some tangible attempt to do that yourself.

From systems like these, you get entire rules and admin teams telling you not to buy an e-sword because no one wants to wait 30 minutes healing all that damage you did in a couple of seconds.

Citation needed.

Death can have consequences. But living should not be annoying.

No medical component makes living annoying, not anymore than having to eat. Situationally, getting hurt can be a real pain for your character. That is by design, see my first bit regarding choices.

So, TLDR: Screw Doctors, Screw BayMed. Screw a system that only serves to give more gameplay when another player is forced to enjoy less of it. Due to paralysis from excruciating wounds. Doctors at best should just be merged with other jobs. So there's less of a focus on giving doctors more "content". Since that just takes away from the game as a whole.

Is wounds actually baymed or is baymed just a buzzword for "healing that poses any more inconvenience to me than just getting a pill/patch from the chemfridge"? Are you even talking about wounds? Have you played a round (1) with wounds?

like I said, the player gets to appreciate more of it now that their actions have meaning (good/bad). If the game requiring more thought before diving head first into situations that might be unfavorable equates to you enjoying it less, perhaps a roleplaying game (especially MRP considering you played manuel nigh-exclusive the last 30 days) isn't for you.

Heck, even if you take the RP aspect out and leave just antag vs crew, I don't think a social deduction game is for you. Most social deduction games are fairly unforgiving when you get eliminated, and roles are vital in helping the "crew" win. ToS for example has 1 role that can talk to dead, and another that can revive 1 person 1 night. After that, you're better off searching for another game or you will be spectating the rest of the round. TTT might have 1use defibs depending on what server you play, which I believe would be exclusive to special roles IE detective.

It wouldn't be a stretch to say the surgery room has similar faults to Lavaland in terms of separation from the core aspects of this game.

If you believed that then everything else you said about it driving the game into a way you dislike would be wrong. It can't a centerpiece of the game in terms of how it affects people and also be separated from the core aspect of the game (which is the station, particularly the crew). I'd argue xenobio is more closely related to lavaland in regards to the complaint people have with lavaland's separation than surgery.