wizard mindswap has some pretty busted abilities right now

[mortimermcmire]

Animate statue, mindswap into statue
Keep all of your powers and become completely immortal

Or better yet, mindswap into a laughter demon and pop out of invisibility to fireball

why is this a thing?

[Vaina]

i ded pls nerf

[Shadowflame909]

Animate statue, mindswap into statue
Keep all of your powers and become completely immortal

Or better yet, mindswap into a laughter demon and pop out of invisibility to fireball

why is this a thing?

see borg

mindswap into borg

become slave to the AI and lose antag status lmaoooo

[XivilaiAnaxes]

see borg

mindswap into borg

become slave to the AI and lose antag status lmaoooo

This isn't actually true - mindswap isn't human harm. You can be told not to mindswap under law 2 but other than that (and law 1 while you're still borged) you're free to do whatever antag shit you want.

[terranaut]

Yeah you can go hog-fucking-wild on liggers as borged antag, it's very funny to watch the crew scramble for the core/upload and kill the AI or try to reset it

[Cobby]

F2S into animate is not indefinite and those statues can actually be killed.

[trollbreeder]

If done well, you can toss away your old, valid body and get away with various crimes. If done badly, prepare to be validded twice.

[NoxVS]

see borg

mindswap into borg

become slave to the AI and lose antag status lmaoooo

This isn't actually true - mindswap isn't human harm. You can be told not to mindswap under law 2 but other than that (and law 1 while you're still borged) you're free to do whatever antag shit you want.

That’s why you do what I did and put one point in mindswap, subvert the AI to the wizard name, rename a cyborg to that name, and then mindswap into the cyborg. And spend the rest of your points on fireball. DOMO ARRIGATO WIZARD ROBOTO was by far one of my favorite wizard rounds.

[mortimermcmire]

lol and you can mindswap into alloy golems that regen health

really its just mindswap in general that leads to a lot of really unfun strategies. maybe if you lost your powers as a consequence it would be pretty balanced but as is yikes

ive played ss13 on and off for about a decade and I almost forgot how dumb wizard can be. if the wizard is bad the round is lame and short. if the wizard is good the round is lame and really fucking long as they systematically murder everyone on the entire server

[ATHATH]

see borg

mindswap into borg

become slave to the AI and lose antag status lmaoooo

This isn't actually true - mindswap isn't human harm. You can be told not to mindswap under law 2 but other than that (and law 1 while you're still borged) you're free to do whatever antag shit you want.

Mind transferring out of a cyborg body that's on Asimov IS human harm, because you know that as soon as you wake up in a body that isn't bound by the Asimov lawset, you're gonna start murderboning again. I hate hate hate hate HATE wizards who mind transfer into cyborgs and then mind transfer out again later, it's as bad as begging for a law change as an Asimov-borged antag so you can resume your murderbone.

[ATHATH]

F2S into animate is not indefinite and those statues can actually be killed.

They literally have the "GODMODE" flag. You're correct in that they'll return to normal after a while, though, and it's going to be hard to make a new statue to mind transfer into if you don't have your wizard robes (that you left on your old body).

[ATHATH]

lol and you can mindswap into alloy golems that regen health

really its just mindswap in general that leads to a lot of really unfun strategies. maybe if you lost your powers as a consequence it would be pretty balanced but as is yikes

ive played ss13 on and off for about a decade and I almost forgot how dumb wizard can be. if the wizard is bad the round is lame and short. if the wizard is good the round is lame and really fucking long as they systematically murder everyone on the entire server

You could also just... choose to turn into an alloy golem using your magic mirror, without having to use mind transfer at all? I wouldn't recommend doing that, though, as alloy golems can't cast robed spells (because they can't wear wizard robes).

And you kind of already DO lose your powers as a consequence- you can't cast any robed spells in your new body until you get a new set of robes (real or fake; either kind will work).

[oranges]

just stop trying to win against the wizard and have fun!

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Mind transferring out of a cyborg body that's on Asimov IS human harm, because you know that as soon as you wake up in a body that isn't bound by the Asimov lawset, you're gonna start murderboning again. I hate hate hate hate HATE wizards who mind transfer into cyborgs and then mind transfer out again later, it's as bad as begging for a law change as an Asimov-borged antag so you can resume your murderbone.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5180

No. It's not.

Silicon policy practically goes out of its way to state "preventing harm" isn't actually something you care about unless it's immediate physical violence.

[Cobby]

they are wrong

[cacogen]

haven't experienced it so my opinion means jackshit but yeah that sounds like fun for the person playing and unfair to everyone else we should add some counters and not remove it entirely

[oranges]

haven't experienced it so my opinion means jackshit but yeah that sounds like fun for the person playing and unfair to everyone else we should add some counters and not remove it entirely

There is no way to fix wizard to make it fun for anyone but the wizard, just enjoy playing it with a different perspective, where you have no individual ability to counter the wizard and should expect to die.

[NecromancerAnne]

Wow, it really is like DnD wizard.

[saprasam]

i saw a 3 apprentice mindswap murderbone and it was hilarious to watch but nobody could do anything

haven't experienced it so my opinion means jackshit but yeah that sounds like fun for the person playing and unfair to everyone else we should add some counters and not remove it entirely

There is no way to fix wizard to make it fun for anyone but the wizard, just enjoy playing it with a different perspective, where you have no individual ability to counter the wizard and should expect to die.

based

[Shadowflame909]

haven't experienced it so my opinion means jackshit but yeah that sounds like fun for the person playing and unfair to everyone else we should add some counters and not remove it entirely

There is no way to fix wizard to make it fun for anyone but the wizard, just enjoy playing it with a different perspective, where you have no individual ability to counter the wizard and should expect to die.

I see one way to fix wizard

Remove instant killers, replace them with lmao troll abilitys

like grease for fire-ball, and curse of the cluwne for ei nath.

[mortimermcmire]

haven't experienced it so my opinion means jackshit but yeah that sounds like fun for the person playing and unfair to everyone else we should add some counters and not remove it entirely

There is no way to fix wizard to make it fun for anyone but the wizard, just enjoy playing it with a different perspective, where you have no individual ability to counter the wizard and should expect to die.

the way you fix wizard is randomize their loadouts or restrict their available options every round

there are a ton of really interesting spells and artifacts, yet I see the same few every single round time and again

its awesome you made some cool artifacts but are they better than jaunt and smite? hahaha no, so they'll never get picked ever (except mjolnir)

also being able to focus entirely on a single spell makes the rounds even more same-y, oh boy someone spent 3+ points on fireball, time to listen to ONI'SOMA in deadchat for the next 30 minutes

[Shadowflame909]

the way you fix wizard is randomize their loadouts or restrict their available options every round

there are a ton of really interesting spells and artifacts, yet I see the same few every single round time and again

its awesome you made some cool artifacts but are they better than jaunt and smite? hahaha no, so they'll never get picked ever (except mjolnir)

also being able to focus entirely on a single spell makes the rounds even more same-y, oh boy someone spent 3+ points on fireball, time to listen to ONI'SOMA in deadchat for the next 30 minutes

that spell of sapping sucks though

imagine permanently losing health in exchange for an instant cooldown refresh..

omega lul.

[nianjiilical]

tbh raising the costs of spells very slightly but giving wizard traitor-style discounts would be pretty cool for spell diversification

[cacogen]

haven't experienced it so my opinion means jackshit but yeah that sounds like fun for the person playing and unfair to everyone else we should add some counters and not remove it entirely

There is no way to fix wizard to make it fun for anyone but the wizard, just enjoy playing it with a different perspective, where you have no individual ability to counter the wizard and should expect to die.

that sounds like dogma

[mortimermcmire]

tbh raising the costs of spells very slightly but giving wizard traitor-style discounts would be pretty cool for spell diversification

its not just raising the cost of spells but ensuring you get something more than fireball deathboner every round

what if the wizard *gasp* couldn't use fireball at all

[oranges]

haven't experienced it so my opinion means jackshit but yeah that sounds like fun for the person playing and unfair to everyone else we should add some counters and not remove it entirely

There is no way to fix wizard to make it fun for anyone but the wizard, just enjoy playing it with a different perspective, where you have no individual ability to counter the wizard and should expect to die.

that sounds like dogma

It's learned experience over 7 years

[XivilaiAnaxes]

That's not true oranges - you can make it awful for everyone involved instead of everyone bar the wizard.

[cacogen]

Animate statue, mindswap into statue
Keep all of your powers and become completely immortal

Or better yet, mindswap into a laughter demon and pop out of invisibility to fireball

I don't care how eager people are to suck up to you and mindlessly accept your word as fact it's wrong to suggest you couldn't keep this functionality but give it counters or nerf it some other way

[oranges]

That's not true oranges - you can make it awful for everyone involved instead of everyone bar the wizard.

ha ha damn you're right

[ATHATH]

Mind transferring out of a cyborg body that's on Asimov IS human harm, because you know that as soon as you wake up in a body that isn't bound by the Asimov lawset, you're gonna start murderboning again. I hate hate hate hate HATE wizards who mind transfer into cyborgs and then mind transfer out again later, it's as bad as begging for a law change as an Asimov-borged antag so you can resume your murderbone.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5180

No. It's not.

Silicon policy practically goes out of its way to state "preventing harm" isn't actually something you care about unless it's immediate physical violence.

what the hell

that's so dumb

im probably gonna make a policy thread about this, because hot damn, that's a bad take from the head admins there

[XivilaiAnaxes]

what the hell

that's so dumb

im probably gonna make a policy thread about this, because hot damn, that's a bad take from the head admins there

It's because allowing you to go "well that could potentially cause harm because it's dangerous" would allow you to bolt armoury/chem/mining/toxins roundstart as well as other iRobot shenanigans and while the ruling was made that that line of thinking was dumb - they didn't take it to the step of "okay yeah asimov is actually awful lets use a real lawset" and instead used silicon policy as a band-aid so they could keep the scifi meme.