/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:04 am**

Bugs from mech rework:

Ripley MK I has internals button
Ripley MK II explodes upon completion (already reported on Github)
Strafe mode is semi-broken, you can't hold Alt to rotate while standing still
Can't walk in mech diagonally
Mech lights are super-dim to the point of complete uselessness
Sprites are messed up
Clicking twice with Solaris cannon will likely cause mech to shoot twice quickly.

Bugs from waterworks:

Showers don't make you wet

Bugs from stomach nonsense:

Pills don't introduce chems into bloodstream
Virus pills don't infect (consequence of previous?)

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:21 am**

thanks for creating this list of bugs.

Now you should fix some of them.

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:50 am**

ssh-ed25519 AAAAC3NzaC1lZDI1NTE5AAAAIG2j0agaDl5s5t4dzCQh8qudhY9C3aQTaurL50VIPiGm

Give me access to repo and I'll fix everything with three "git revert" commands.

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:51 am**

oranges wrote:thanks for creating this list of bugs.

Now you should fix some of them.

Hey this is coding feedback forum, not get work actually accomplished forum

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:46 pm**

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:15 pm**

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:13 pm**

I think bottles don't either.
Had a round where an eye-burnout stealth sentient disease was destroying the station and in order to figure it out I ended up why the cure wasn't working I ended up injecting myself with so much ephedrine that I suffered withdrawal for the remaining 2 hours of the round.

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:02 pm**

Still waiting for those fixes

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:52 pm**

oranges wrote:Still waiting for those fixes

How about having the maintainers actually test code before merging it and revert bugged code until it's fixed? It's neither fair nor practical to expect players reporting bugs to take the time to learn how to code and fix them. The responsibility is on contributors not to introduce bugs and to fix those they do. Don't get me wrong though, I know you don't have a realistic expectation players fix what they report themselves. This thread offends you for some reason, presumably because it highlights what a bad job you continue to do as lead maintainer and trying to shift responsibility for the mistakes is a tactic to prevent them being discussed. We didn't have fuck-ups like this back in the day very often at all and when we did they were quickly fixed or reverted. Since you took over the standard of quality on the repo has visibly fallen because you ultimately don't care outside of how it makes you look and the effect on your ego because you don't even play the game and you're basically holding the repo hostage in exchange for attention and validation from people who don't want to get on your bad side. You burnt out years ago.

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:56 pm**

I Am Sorry Cacogen We Coderbus Will Not Make A Bug Again

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:05 am**

cacogen wrote:
oranges wrote:Still waiting for those fixes
How about having the maintainers actually test code before merging it and revert bugged code until it's fixed? It's neither fair nor practical to expect players reporting bugs to take the time to learn how to code and fix them. The responsibility is on contributors not to introduce bugs and to fix those they do. Don't get me wrong though, I know you don't have a realistic expectation players fix what they report themselves. This thread offends you for some reason, presumably because it highlights what a bad job you continue to do as lead maintainer and trying to shift responsibility for the mistakes is a tactic to prevent them being discussed. We didn't have fuck-ups like this back in the day very often at all and when we did they were quickly fixed or reverted. Since you took over the standard of quality on the repo has visibly fallen because you ultimately don't care outside of how it makes you look and the effect on your ego because you don't even play the game and you're basically holding the repo hostage in exchange for attention and validation from people who don't want to get on your bad side. You burnt out years ago.

also he's a fruit

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:26 am**

cacogen wrote:
oranges wrote:Still waiting for those fixes
How about having the maintainers actually test code before merging it and revert bugged code until it's fixed? It's neither fair nor practical to expect players reporting bugs to take the time to learn how to code and fix them. The responsibility is on contributors not to introduce bugs and to fix those they do. Don't get me wrong though, I know you don't have a realistic expectation players fix what they report themselves. This thread offends you for some reason, presumably because it highlights what a bad job you continue to do as lead maintainer and trying to shift responsibility for the mistakes is a tactic to prevent them being discussed. We didn't have fuck-ups like this back in the day very often at all and when we did they were quickly fixed or reverted. Since you took over the standard of quality on the repo has visibly fallen because you ultimately don't care outside of how it makes you look and the effect on your ego because you don't even play the game and you're basically holding the repo hostage in exchange for attention and validation from people who don't want to get on your bad side. You burnt out years ago.

still waiting for those fixes.

Shut the fuck up. l'm so tired of being disrespected on this goddamn server. All I wanted to do was post my character art. MY CHARACTER NSFW ART. But no, you little bastards think it‘s "hilarious" to mock those with good drawings. My character art. while not absolute. is definitely worth the respect to formulate an ACTUAL FUCKING FEEDBACK AND NOT JUST A SHORT MEME OF A REPLY. I've been on this server for 6 months: 6 MONTHS and l have never felt this wronged. lt boils me up that I could spend so much time thinking and putting effort into my art while you shits sit around (probably jerking off to traps or whatever gay shit you like) and make fun of the intellectuals of this world. We bored you? Good for fucking you. Literally no one cares that your little brain is to underdeveloped and rotted to comprehend my character...MY GREAT GREAT CHARACTER. I could sit here all day whining. but I won't. l'm NOT a whiner. l'm a realist and an intellectual. l know when to call it quits and to leave the babybrains to themselves. l'm done with this goddamn server and you goddamn immature children. l have lived my life up until this point having to deal with memesters and idiots like you. I know how you work. I know that you all think you‘re "epik trolls" but you're not. You think you baited me? NAH. I've never taken any bait. This is my 100% real opinion divorced from anger. l'm calm, l‘m serene. l LAUGH when people imply l'm intellectually low enough to take bait. I always choose to reply just to spite you. I won. I‘ve always won. Losing is not in my skillset. So you're probably gonna reply "lol epik trolled" or "u mad bro" but once you've done that you‘ve shown me We won. l've tricked the trickster and conquered memery. l live everyday growing stronger to fight you plebs and low level trolls who are probably 11 (baby, you gotta be 18 to use 4chan). But whatever, I digress. It's just fucking annoying that l'm never taken serious on this server, goddamn.

That's the entire issue with tg right there. They're so content with adhering to this that they're removing everything fun / tinest bit varied. The community disliked the PR? Too bad! DESIGN PHILOSOPHY. The PR might make the game unfun to play? Too bad! DESIGN PHILOSOPHY. What? It's fine to break a rule here and there to make an engaging experience? Sorry I have the power of DESIGN PHILOSOPHY behind me, deviating one ounce from it is bad because it's BAAAAAAD and would make this entire project unfocused - wait what do you mean that ss13 already is a cesspool of ideas and that might be it's greatest strength shut up and agree with my vision.

That's not to say that DESIGN PHILOSOPHY is bad, of course making sure that people can't get insta crit weapons ten minutes into the round is a good thing, but thinking that DESIGN PHILOSOPHY should be some unchangeable immutable absolute completely stifles creativity and progress.

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:33 pm**

Ivuchnu wrote:ssh-ed25519 AAAAC3NzaC1lZDI1NTE5AAAAIG2j0agaDl5s5t4dzCQh8qudhY9C3aQTaurL50VIPiGm

Give me access to repo and I'll fix everything with three "git revert" commands.

Remove do not improve

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:37 pm**

Remove do not improve

Wow, you got me there! Quoted players' feedback on removal PRs, just wow.

Old mechcode "just worked" from player PoV. At least Critawakets seems to be trying to fix new mechs. Chefs hate waterworks (is this really fixed? Somewhat I doubt it.). I personally saw no one excited about stomach stuff. No one asked for it like for EVA suits having cells, I guess.

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:11 pm**

Ivuchnu wrote:Old mechcode "just worked" from player PoV. At least Critawakets seems to be trying to fix new mechs. Chefs hate waterworks (is this really fixed? Somewhat I doubt it.). I personally saw no one excited about stomach stuff. No one asked for it like for EVA suits having cells, I guess.

Cells will be important later on, mechcode has never been working fine and bugs are expected, and if you can reproduce the sink bug please do.

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:10 pm**

how the hell do real devs prevent this from happening (in a way that makes it feel like it isn't a common occurrence)? sure, you can playtest it however if there was a game like this then how the fuck would someone think to playtest "oh yeah chems do IN FACT still work in the stomach lol" or some shit? you could say that it would be tested after a similar change however it's clearly not something obvious if we're having this issue right now.

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:10 pm**

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pulse/monthly wrote: Excluding merges, 91 authors have pushed 987 commits to master and 988 commits to all branches. On master, 2,237 files have changed and there have been 121,621 additions and 103,441 deletions.

Something tells me old coderbus didn't have to worry about A HUNDRED THOUSAND FUCKING LINES OF CODE being changed every month.

Just some food for thought.

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:33 pm**

Basic shit like mechs icon not changing as soon as you get in or medscanners not displaying the chems you ingested shouldn't require a player to notice them.
Literally ZERO time invested in seeing if a feature is implemented right. Does it compile? Great, ship it. Indian sweatshop tier.

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:51 pm**

We get over a hundred pull requests every week

We do not, nor will we likely to ever, have the resources to actually local test every pr before merging. Code is reviewed for any bugs that can be noticed by text, and thats it.

I get it, i think the same way, it would be nice if every pr got at least some sort of local test in before merging, its just not feasible.

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:43 pm**

Ayy Lemoh wrote:how the hell do real devs prevent this from happening (in a way that makes it feel like it isn't a common occurrence)? sure, you can playtest it however if there was a game like this then how the fuck would someone think to playtest "oh yeah chems do IN FACT still work in the stomach lol" or some shit? you could say that it would be tested after a similar change however it's clearly not something obvious if we're having this issue right now.

integration testing

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:09 pm**

"Our code keeps breaking, we lack the ability to test this because we have so many people submitting so many changes at once. If you have a problem with that, submit changes."

wot if the fix brakes somethung then it's just a cycle of sHIT CODE

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:49 pm**

- maintainers can't psychically detect whether contributors tested their changes or not (except if they web edited, which means they DEFINITELY didn't test. we should ban web edits.)
- all maintainer work is volunteer work, so a higher burden on maintainers means less PR review throughput
- a higher burden on contributors to test their changes, especially large refactors, would reduce the rate of contribution
- that's probably okay to some degree since the PR load is, apparently, higher than we can handle right now
- how would it be enforced?

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:37 pm**

just code freeze for 3 years

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:39 am**

oranges wrote:
Ayy Lemoh wrote:how the hell do real devs prevent this from happening (in a way that makes it feel like it isn't a common occurrence)? sure, you can playtest it however if there was a game like this then how the fuck would someone think to playtest "oh yeah chems do IN FACT still work in the stomach lol" or some shit? you could say that it would be tested after a similar change however it's clearly not something obvious if we're having this issue right now.
integration testing

Yeah, companies like Wube that have their shit together have a fuckload of unit tests and a crazy amount of live integration tests as well. And even then game breaking bugs slip into releases on the regular. Granted they use a beta release model while we use rolling release, but it shows that even doing everything "correct" by any reasonable standard still leaves you with issues that nobody caught until you get hundreds of eyes on it.

cacogen wrote:How about having the maintainers actually test code before merging it and revert bugged code until it's fixed? It's neither fair nor practical to expect players reporting bugs to take the time to learn how to code and fix them. The responsibility is on contributors not to introduce bugs and to fix those they do. Don't get me wrong though, I know you don't have a realistic expectation players fix what they report themselves. This thread offends you for some reason, presumably because it highlights what a bad job you continue to do as lead maintainer and trying to shift responsibility for the mistakes is a tactic to prevent them being discussed. We didn't have fuck-ups like this back in the day very often at all and when we did they were quickly fixed or reverted. Since you took over the standard of quality on the repo has visibly fallen because you ultimately don't care outside of how it makes you look and the effect on your ego because you don't even play the game and you're basically holding the repo hostage in exchange for attention and validation from people who don't want to get on your bad side. You burnt out years ago.

Iatots wrote:Basic shit like mechs icon not changing as soon as you get in or medscanners not displaying the chems you ingested shouldn't require a player to notice them.
Literally ZERO time invested in seeing if a feature is implemented right. Does it compile? Great, ship it. Indian sweatshop tier.

This is a great idea actually! We really could use a dedicated testing team of people willing to volunteer their time for zero payment only to get yelled at for missing random difficult to pin down issues!
How about you guys be the first to volunteer for such a team?

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:18 am**

actioninja wrote:[youtube]2UJ_a7mxGpM[/youtube]

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:43 am**

Super Aggro Crag wrote:[youtube]d1MWxSUO4ts[/youtube]

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:03 am**

I don't get how people don't try to test out their own code and indeed do Indian sweatshop tier work. Compiling and running server locally is braindead simple. After PR authors, players are prime candidate to be people who notice bugs. Just don't expect them to go make bug report on Github all the time.

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:33 am**

The amount of time posting in this thread could have been used to contribute the fixes anon

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:17 am**

the mech thing is inexcusable like yeah how did you NOT notice that when you enter the mech it DOESNT update the icon and it just has the unpiloted mech icon? like how did he test his code if the first thing you have to do is broken?

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:14 am**

Ayy Lemoh wrote:how the hell do real devs prevent this from happening (in a way that makes it feel like it isn't a common occurrence)? sure, you can playtest it however if there was a game like this then how the fuck would someone think to playtest "oh yeah chems do IN FACT still work in the stomach lol" or some shit? you could say that it would be tested after a similar change however it's clearly not something obvious if we're having this issue right now.

You've been told a couple times now already, but yes--unit + integration tests. Of which we are slowly getting more and more of.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... unit_tests

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:31 pm**

A well organized QA team would also have a literal checklist of every single feature in the game that needs to be checked, and would be checked after every single major update regardless of what has been changed

If that sounds horribly tedious and time consuming, welcome to quality assurance and that's why we can update daily instead of twice a year

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:01 pm**

Perhaps the best inbetween would be that large features, as in large scale reworks or features, should receive some degree of testing from someone other than just the PR author, be that a maintainer, or simply a trustworthy second party?

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:55 pm**

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:the mech thing is inexcusable like yeah how did you NOT notice that when you enter the mech it DOESNT update the icon and it just has the unpiloted mech icon? like how did he test his code if the first thing you have to do is broken?

The difference between the piloted and unpiloted mechs is subtle enough that I can completely understand missing that. I don't even think every mech has piloted vs unpiloted states in the first place.

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:25 pm**

we already have a huge test team. There's usually about 200 or so players on the test servers.

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:54 pm**

EOBGames wrote:Perhaps the best inbetween would be that large features, as in large scale reworks or features, should receive some degree of testing from someone other than just the PR author, be that a maintainer, or simply a trustworthy second party?

actioninja wrote:This is a great idea actually! We really could use a dedicated testing team of people willing to volunteer their time for zero payment only to get yelled at for missing random difficult to pin down issues!
How about you guys be the first to volunteer for such a team?

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:08 pm**

if your name is green you have no brain

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:53 pm**

itd probably be more feasable just to encourage/allow coders to quick revert prs that massively break things and remerge them with fixes

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:55 pm**

nianjiilical wrote:itd probably be more feasable just to encourage/allow coders to quick revert prs that massively break things and remerge them with fixes

i kind of like this, in certain circumstances. for example, the whole no reagent exposing was just such a silly mistake

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:25 am**

Also: Waterworks didn't break water, as that PR didn't change anything about reagent reactions themselves, just how showers interact with them.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:04 pm**

I don't think the people crying about not testing thoroughly understand *just how many features there are to test*. Part of my job is testing the system that runs a company of 6000 people. The test checklist we hand out is like 500 items, drawn out in painstaking detail. That pales in comparison to what you'd need for this game. Just writing that checklist would be a full-time job.

"basic shit like mech icons not changing" in what world is this "basic"? I think I've gotten in a mech like twice in my life, you're acting like this is some core function that the game is unplayable without. Yeah, the reagent expose change was pretty silly to miss, but that shit's fuckin spaghetti code and I doubt most of the people whining about it would've had any idea what that would break. Hell, you thought it was only showers that were broken and that it was broken by waterworks, which ironically shows exactly why it's not remotely as simple as you think it is.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:32 pm**

so just keep breaking shit

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:07 pm**

I agree

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:51 am**

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:13 am**

oranges wrote:we already have a huge test team. There's usually about 200 or so players on the test servers.

underrated

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:00 pm**

I dont think so stickler it was mean spirited

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:37 pm**

Super Aggro Crag wrote:I dont think so stickler it was mean spirited

but it was funny

Posted: **Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:17 pm**

Hey OP noticed you hadn't made any progress fixing any of the bugs, hop on discord to get help.

Posted: **Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:50 pm**

So here's some info on how the real video game industry works:

1. Developer makes a feature
2. Feature is reviewed by a colleague for any obvious problems and checks the standards of the feature
3. Feature is merged
4. QA testers test the build for any flaws that might have been missed

Guess which step we are missing? Thats right. 4.

We do this for free, and the shit we provide is a service. What you do for free however; is test our code.

Thanks for your service, Ivuchnu and Cacogen. I'm glad you do it for free.

Posted: **Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:53 pm**

Jaredfogle wrote:
Ayy Lemoh wrote:how the hell do real devs prevent this from happening (in a way that makes it feel like it isn't a common occurrence)? sure, you can playtest it however if there was a game like this then how the fuck would someone think to playtest "oh yeah chems do IN FACT still work in the stomach lol" or some shit? you could say that it would be tested after a similar change however it's clearly not something obvious if we're having this issue right now.
You've been told a couple times now already, but yes--unit + integration tests. Of which we are slowly getting more and more of.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... unit_tests

unit tests and daily build tests by QA

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:20 am**

Unit tests are not equivalent to live playtesting, but they can help stop some of the more egregious issues.

/tg/Station 13

Please stop habitually breaking game: list of some bugs that are still live

Please stop habitually breaking game: list of some bugs that are still live

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