Operating Rooms

For feedback on the game code and design. Feedback on server rules and playstyle belong in Policy Discussion.

Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers

User avatar
Sylphet
 
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:35 am
Location: Deepest Medbay
Byond Username: Sylphet

Operating Rooms

Postby Sylphet » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:43 am #578352

Why don't we use operating rooms anymore ? Everything is done on stasis beds, it's immersion(tm) breaking, it makes cutting someone open and rearranging their organs feel too casual, makes things harder for MD antags... not to mention that you can just bomb one room and medbay is now gone, because gameplay is too focused on the permanently overcrowded treatment room.
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27175



cacogen
 
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
Byond Username: Cacogen

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby cacogen » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:55 am #578355

You'd have to move the stasis beds to the operating rooms replacing the operating tables instead of having them placed where the sleepers were if you wanted the operating rooms used for surgeries.
technokek wrote:Cannot prove this so just belive me if when say this

BrianBackslide
 
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:43 am
Byond Username: BrianBackslide

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby BrianBackslide » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am #578359

I think there's a disconnect here between wanting to do it the right way, and wanting to get people back up on their feet as quickly as possible. Medbay might be chill most rounds, but then you get a nukie round and the bodies start piling up. People use the stasis beds because it doesn't really incur any speed penalties to surgery and there's no failure chance from that pr back when coderbus was desperately trying to get people to switch to surgery over chems/cloning. Even when I make sterilizer patches, they rarely get used as the speed boost is too minimal to matter most of the time.

I'd personally want to see more use of the operating rooms myself, but between wanting to fix people faster and the fact that there's no real downside to using a stasis bed I don't see any reason to. If anything, using a stasis bed is always the superior option as the small speed gain from using an operating table isn't worthwhile.

So there's a few options to go about changing that.
1. Remove stasis beds entirely. (Like that'll happen)
2. Give stasis functionality to operating tables. (And you'd need to give a larger surgery speed boost so people bypass the stasis room and go to the operating rooms.
3. Switch the positions of the operating rooms and stasis room. (MASSIVE amount of mapwork, and people will just drag a stasis bed over to the operating rooms)
4. Re-add surgical failure chances. (Fucks with ghetto surgery)
5. Turn stasis beds into stasis sleepers that do not allow surgery, but will slowly tend wounds on patients within. (Probably the best option, as it keeps those organs nicely preserved and helps doctors out when medbay is short-staffed. Fucks with cryo, though)

Edit: You could dramatically increase the chances of players getting infected with diseases in a dirty stasis room, but miasma diseases are rarely more than a slight annoyance. So also turboboost miasma diseases. (Maybe operating tables automatically clean any blood that drips on/under them?)

Hell, even level 7 biohazard events aren't even a threat. Diseases in general should matter a LOT more.

Tlaltecuhtli
 
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:36 am #578362

you know the epipen medipen does the same thing as stasis beds for dead people, if you want to turn a dead man into a sex slave by mind alteration you can do it in op room without anyone caring,
sometimes no one put operating computers next to stasis beds and you have to use the ones in the back for better wound treading tech,
if you want to work on a live person as antag doc give him a totally medicine patch 50u and then drag them away from the stasis room when they are sleeping and kill them or sex slave them
sometimes you have to heal a officer and maybe you dont want their shit stolen from the other "patients" in the treatment room so you move in operating room poof

literally not an issue, stasis beds are overrated, anything they do can be done by medipen and bandages, if you want to use the op room to do shady business you have ingame justifications without looking suspicious


>1. Remove stasis beds entirely. (Like that'll happen)
there wont be any difference other than people building op tables in the room and doing the same as before
>2. Give stasis functionality to operating tables. (And you'd need to give a larger surgery speed boost so people bypass the stasis room and go to the operating rooms.
sounds dumb and redunant
>3. Switch the positions of the operating rooms and stasis room. (MASSIVE amount of mapwork, and people will just drag a stasis bed over to the operating rooms)
sounds dumb and a waste of time
>4. Re-add surgical failure chances. (Fucks with ghetto surgery)
surgical failure chance was 0% if you used the normal tools, it only existed to make ghetto tools bad
>5. Turn stasis beds into stasis sleepers that do not allow surgery, but will slowly tend wounds on patients within. (Probably the best option, as it keeps those organs nicely preserved and helps doctors out when medbay is short-staffed. Fucks with cryo, though)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: yeah thats just what medbay is trying to not be

BrianBackslide
 
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:43 am
Byond Username: BrianBackslide

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby BrianBackslide » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:48 am #578363

The point is to get people to NOT use the stasis room. Anyone dragging a person to the operating rooms is sus as fuck especially when the goddamn map design caters to using stasis beds.

Tlaltecuhtli
 
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:58 am #578364

its not, throw some smoke grenades while dragging the body away if you feel observed

Kryson
 
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Kryson

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Kryson » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:19 pm #578376

I hate stasis because it removes any tension and sense of urgency in treating serious conditions like death mixes, heart failure, critical wounds etc.

I usually use the operating rooms however, because outside of the most serious cases, atropine and formaldehyde does the job of stasis and the operating room lets you treat your patient without being disturbed by the horde of people usually occupying the treatment area.

User avatar
Yenwodyah
 
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:47 pm
Byond Username: Yenwodyah
Github Username: Yenwodyah

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Yenwodyah » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:29 pm #578475

Remove the operating theater and replace it with something more interesting, and put surgery consoles next to all the stasis beds.
Image

User avatar
Sylphet
 
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:35 am
Location: Deepest Medbay
Byond Username: Sylphet

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Sylphet » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:55 pm #578492

Kryson wrote:I hate stasis because it removes any tension and sense of urgency in treating serious conditions like death mixes, heart failure, critical wounds etc.


It's a little outside of the thread topic but yeah, 100 % stasis is terrible - it's part of current medical design and it would honestly take more changes to cut it entirely. What about stasis sleepers in place of stasis beds, where you can't operate on someone inside of them ? That would make people need to use operating rooms without cutting stasis completely.
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27175

BrianBackslide
 
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:43 am
Byond Username: BrianBackslide

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby BrianBackslide » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:12 pm #578494

How about remove stasis beds, and put stasis sleeper functionality into cryo tubes? Cryo could slowly tend wounds (like 50% speed of basic TW) on corpses and prevent corpse degradation. It'd give the cryo room some much needed love. Maybe even do something with Clonexadone since it has no function now?

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby oranges » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:37 pm #578518

space constraints

User avatar
Jaredfogle
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
Byond Username: Jaredfogle

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Jaredfogle » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:28 pm #578525

I use operating rooms all the time when dealing with high value patients like the captain or sec. Nobody has ever stopped or kept an eye on me.
Mothblocks on Bagil

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby skoglol » Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:42 am #578557

What I had in mind around cloning removal but never got around to:
-Remove operating computers as a separate entity.
-Make operating table machinery, akin to the stasis bed. At the same time, get rid of the jank of getting someone lying down on top of one.
-Integrate operating computer into stasis beds and operating tables.
-Limit the surgeries available on stasis beds to tend wounds (and its upgrades) and keep them in the treatment area. Force anything bigger onto a surgery table.
-Rework stasis to be part dependant, and not necessarily stop all function even at max parts. Some parts of life might still keep going, chems metabolizing for instance, dealers choice here.

Now if someone feels up to it, go nuts. I seem to remember a cobby approval to this, but double check first I guess.

User avatar
WineAllWine
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:17 pm
Byond Username: Wineallwine

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby WineAllWine » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:16 am #578578

BrianBackslide wrote:How about remove stasis beds, and put stasis sleeper functionality into cryo tubes? Cryo could slowly tend wounds (like 50% speed of basic TW) on corpses and prevent corpse degradation. It'd give the cryo room some much needed love. Maybe even do something with Clonexadone since it has no function now?


no, remove cryo

VexingRaven
 
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:33 am
Byond Username: VexingRaven

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby VexingRaven » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:18 am #578939

Sylphet wrote:
Kryson wrote:I hate stasis because it removes any tension and sense of urgency in treating serious conditions like death mixes, heart failure, critical wounds etc.


It's a little outside of the thread topic but yeah, 100 % stasis is terrible - it's part of current medical design and it would honestly take more changes to cut it entirely. What about stasis sleepers in place of stasis beds, where you can't operate on someone inside of them ? That would make people need to use operating rooms without cutting stasis completely.

I think this is a reasonable compromise. This way a quick operation like tend wounds or something is doable in the treatment center but if you're doing a longer surgery you'll want the operating room.

I'd also be in favor of making stasis like a 90% slowdown instead of 100% to add at least some tension back in. Or make stasis only apply to dead people so they don't decay while you're preparing to revive.

User avatar
Calomel
 
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:14 pm
Location: Dead on a hallway somewhere.
Byond Username: Ryumeme

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Calomel » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:59 pm #578960

Operating rooms? I don't think they are a problem per se, but let's see...

The operating rooms are far away from medbay entrance, and the operating tables hold no stasis capabilities. This is important because anyone NOT on a stasis bed that is dead or sevrely injured will take constant organ damage, which can render the patient unrecoverable. There is no reason for me as a doctor to slowly move a patient to a far-away inefficient operating room than just doing it on the stasis beds that won't impose a time limit on me. Already doctors can have a lot of problems because there aren't enough stasis beds for when people in the station start dying in bulk (which happens pretty much every round), and the increasingly complicated medical system (Fractures, infecitons) does not help matters.

This is specially vital on people with huge damage (200+) who can take a long time to heal with surgery. I need the stasis or every organ will be nonfunctional by the time I am done. Morgue operating table is for organ extraction, and the normal operating rooms exist for the non-life threatening operations (Limb replacement, augmentation, etc.). I do not think this needs any action. if you want to have the operating tables be used for life-threatening situations, These are the options i'd suggest:

1. have surgical beds act as stasis (Probably a bad idea, it removes the point of surgical beds)
2. Crate some chemical or object that lessens or slows organ damage (maybe make anesthesia slow organ damage) so we have the time to do our operations without the stringent time limit.
3. If surgical beds allow for faaster surgery steps, it'll become more viable for non-threatening operations.

I'd love if tehre was something we could do to slow organ damage without a stasis bed. Right now there is literally no counter to organ damage save for replacements, and no way to mitigate the organ damage effectively without a stasis bed. I don't like it when there aren't alternatives to a problem.
"Purging chemicals at incredibly hihg speeds."

Image

VexingRaven
 
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:33 am
Byond Username: VexingRaven

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby VexingRaven » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:54 pm #579000

Calomel wrote:1. have surgical beds act as stasis (Probably a bad idea, it removes the point of surgical beds).
Why would that remove the point of a surgical bed? If I have the technology to just put somebody on hold, you bet your ass I would build it into my surgical table.

Calomel wrote:2. Crate some chemical or object that lessens or slows organ damage (maybe make anesthesia slow organ damage) so we have the time to do our operations without the stringent time limit.
Isn't this what formaldehyde is for?

Calomel wrote:3. If surgical beds allow for faaster surgery steps, it'll become more viable for non-threatening operations.
This makes sense to me, or nerfing surgery on stasis beds.

User avatar
Calomel
 
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:14 pm
Location: Dead on a hallway somewhere.
Byond Username: Ryumeme

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Calomel » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:42 am #579132

VexingRaven wrote:
Calomel wrote:2. Create some chemical or object that lessens or slows organ damage (maybe make anesthesia slow organ damage) so we have the time to do our operations without the stringent time limit.
Isn't this what formaldehyde is for?

No,formaldehyde not only causes dangerous toxin damage (Which brings us to a bigger problem of toxin removal in medical, which is its own sack of worms) and formol only works "on corpses" (Accoridng to wiki) which I don't know if it considers people on defib as corpses.
In any case, formol wouldn't work on people in crit, and I don't know how corpses process chemicals. Would i be able to formol a defib-person and preserve his organs long enough for me to finish a 200+ brute/burn tend wounds session? Until those two problems (toxicity and usefulness on defibrilate-able targets), I cannot consider formol as a viable alternative.

The can of worms, to prevent needless tl:dr
Spoiler:
To reduce or eliminate toxicity, there are four ways. Purge stomach (Would occupy my surgery action, slow and doesn't work forever), pentetic acid (purger, would remove formol), snyriver (Needs and Iv drip and is complicated to use) and seiver (needs a specific temperature to remove toxin). All of those either wouldn't work alongside the need for surgery actions and/or formol, or they require quite a bit of complication that frankly, leads me back to stasis beds as the optimal option.


Calomel wrote:3. If surgical beds allow for faaster surgery steps, it'll become more viable for non-threatening operations.
VexingRaven wrote:This makes sense to me, or nerfing surgery on stasis beds.


I'd be against nerfing in any case, surgery is already slow enough. And in any case, people will just use stasis beds anyways because of map proximity, and centralization of resources (having eveyrthing including body parts/Blood packs on the central stasis beds area helps a lot). Reducing the sasis bed ability to use surgery would severely dampen medical's ability to act in case of medical overflow (Aka every shift eventually when mr mc bonerson decides to start e-swording everyone). Raising speed on surgical beds owuld be apreciated so epopel will do non-threatening surgeries there, in any case. Although personally I do use the surgery rooms already if the need is not life-threatening, if only because the stasis bed slots are for emergencies, and as CMO i do try to enforce teh stasis being used for the people who need it.
"Purging chemicals at incredibly hihg speeds."

Image

Tlaltecuhtli
 
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:21 am #579137

>No,formaldehyde not only causes dangerous toxin damage (Which brings us to a bigger problem of toxin removal in medical,
fake news: liver purges instantly if its small quantity and u need 1u to “preserve”,

>which is its own sack of worms) and formol only works "on corpses" (Accoridng to wiki) which I don't know if it considers people on defib as corpses
anyone not living is infact a corpse

>In any case, formol wouldn't work on people in crit, and I don't know how corpses process chemicals. Would i be able to formol a defib-person and preserve his organs long enough for me to finish a 200+ brute/burn tend wounds session?
organs decay only when u are dead, your organs are untouched when in crit and yes u can medipen the dude and his organs wont decay

User avatar
Calomel
 
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:14 pm
Location: Dead on a hallway somewhere.
Byond Username: Ryumeme

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Calomel » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:24 pm #579142

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:Useful bouts of info that I wish i had known before posting my reply


So there's the answer. Either having a bottle of formol from chemistry/Viro handy next to the surgery room will solve all our surgery room organ problems. Since you can probably just go make it yourself and it's already a common thing to be made since it's needed for Pentetic, it's probably a good idea to have it handy. Good to know!
"Purging chemicals at incredibly hihg speeds."

Image

Tlaltecuhtli
 
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:35 pm #579144

epipen medipen contains formaldehyde and everyone spawns with 1 and every medkit gives an extra 1

BrianBackslide
 
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:43 am
Byond Username: BrianBackslide

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby BrianBackslide » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:16 pm #579179

Question though, would Formaldehyde work if it was fed, or does it need to be injected into blood after the stomach/blood separation thing? Obviously a dead man's stomach doesn't process chems into the blood.

User avatar
Megarop
 
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:08 am
Byond Username: Megarop

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby Megarop » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:23 am #579238

it's 4pm time to nerf medbay again
Image

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Operating Rooms

Postby oranges » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:14 am #579295

lot of high RP players in here, medbay is fine where its' at right now.


Return to Coding Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users