/tg/Station 13

i dont have a huge thesis to back my opinion up but hot take: nightmares might be too fragile for what they are

yes they have insane 1v1 damage potential but in a game defined by stuns it doesnt really feel like it helps them, the nightmare meta has essentially been solved for months because their ability to create and abuse dark areas is so hampered by the facts that

a) they cant do much to people dragging lights behind them
b) they cant wear most clothing items for protection
c) they're reliant on trying to get normal gamer loot (radios, sunglasses, sec gear) for survival, to the point where i would argue nightmares are weaker than normal seccies/greytiders who know what they're doing

most importantly they're one of the few antags that drops gamer gear (organs) on death. im not saying friendly antags should be encouraged but the moment you are confirmed to exist as a nightmare every single seccie/borg/tider/powergamer on the server is gunning for you, and as mentioned having a bigass knife arm and spooky dark powers isnt really that strong when all of those gamers know how to easily counter you and have such a clear incentive to do it, perhaps moreso than other side antags

i dont really know what nightmares should get and idk if id say they should even get straight buffs (trade damage for survival tools??) but they just feel woefully underprepared for the current meta

should have a counter like an emp to dragged lights then

nianjiilical wrote: a) they cant do much to people dragging lights behind them

This is the only actual issue
Nightmares are an “annoy the station” antag, not a “kill everyone” antag. They’re not supposed to be strong.

bring back shadowlings, problem solved

They are honestly fine except for maybe borgs with their built in flashlights and flash tool. Borgs will often btfo them just accidentally by existing.
Other than that you can pretty much choose your fights a majority of the time provided you clear out light, which is your job in the first place. Don't take a fight that's more than a 1v1 if you're not sure about how many lights they have and you'll find yourself surviving much longer.

Flatulent wrote:bring back shadowlings, problem solved

I am down for that

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Flatulent wrote:bring back shadowlings, problem solved

I am down for that

So down for that too, my favorite kind of conversion is having one person be the converter and everyone else being kidnappers to bring people to the converter

delete nightmare it's a shit side antag with no depth.

oranges wrote:delete nightmare it's a shit side antag with no depth.

It really is just Wizard Jaunt + Changeling Armblade

oranges wrote:delete nightmare it's a shit side antag with no depth.

or just give it some depth

Yenwodyah wrote:

nianjiilical wrote: a) they cant do much to people dragging lights behind them

This is the only actual issue
Nightmares are an “annoy the station” antag, not a “kill everyone” antag. They’re not supposed to be strong.

im definitely fine with nightmares not being murderbone antags but they suffer from the wizard issue where their existence incentivizes everyone on the station to kill them for their gamer organs, ergo they have to murderbone or they will be murderboned themselves

a long cooldown emp of some kind would be a neat idea

Flatulent wrote:bring back shadowlings, problem solved

why was it removed in the first place?

cocothegogo wrote:

Flatulent wrote:bring back shadowlings, problem solved

why was it removed in the first place?

The creator decided they wanted them gone and opened a full removal, saying they'd reimplement them in the future

That future never came despite many attempts

Armhulen wrote:

cocothegogo wrote:

Flatulent wrote:bring back shadowlings, problem solved

why was it removed in the first place?

The creator decided they wanted them gone and opened a full removal, saying they'd reimplement them in the future

That future never came despite many attempts

the fate of everything that is removed pending improvements

Armhulen wrote:

oranges wrote:delete nightmare it's a shit side antag with no depth.

or just give it some depth

not a single person exists on the planet with the talent necessary to do that

Do they have any sort of meaningful lore to RP with or are they just 'lmao fight about the lights'

nightmare is the weakest antag in the game because of lightdragging & stun meta
buff it

buff whatever you want for nightmare, i thought light dragging already had it so when you the puller was attacked it killed the light, but i know that when you say "give it more depth" what everyone else hears is "add more buttons" and im just letting you know in this thread that is wrong

nightmare is beautifully simplistic in a way that all midround antags should strive for, you have zero reason or desire to read a wiki when you get nightmare, crucially even if its your first time. that is the correct way to do things