/tg/Station 13

The current (indestructible) lux shuttle makes hijack near impossible unless you are a traitor who specifically planned to remove people’s money while still having money yourself. Also borgs and people without medbay cannot use this at all.

One example is when i as a malf AI on fulp had to hijack shuttle, however i was unable to because of the indestructible lux shuttle preventing borgs from getting on at all. The ce managed to have enough money and got through the gates where i was unable to touch him because of bad game design.

Another example is when i as a traitor managed to easily hijack the shuttle with just a crab phone and money.

The current state of the lux shuttle is god awful and honestly it should be removed, or at the very least made not indestructible.

A long time ago I made it so simple animals and borgs could drag money through. But you could make it so only humans have to pay. You could also make the walls not indestructible (which is gamey and better reserved for things like Centcom) but just very hard to break, e.g. children of r-walls. I think you can destroy the gates with a mech drill or something (unless it was fixed). They're supposed to be indestructible but I don't think every method of dealing damage to them was taken into account when I changed the forcewalls into scanner gates.

This sounds like good gameplay tbh. (though borgs / shells should be able to get on if they drag money)

Being able to just drag money (that they cannot even get without donations or stealing from vault, both would be hard to do in mass in a malf round for example) is super unintuitive and I doubt anyone knows about this. And if a traitor (or god forbid a heretic) has to hijack a lux shuttle without having planned for it they are kinda fucked, as heretics have no way of getting lots of money fast or making people loose money, traitors need to have tc to do that, something they do not have a lot left after a full round.

Noodlecat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:45 pm Being able to just drag money (that they cannot even get without donations or stealing from vault, both would be hard to do in mass in a malf round for example) is super unintuitive and I doubt anyone knows about this. And if a traitor (or god forbid a heretic) has to hijack a lux shuttle without having planned for it they are kinda fucked, as heretics have no way of getting lots of money fast or making people loose money, traitors need to have tc to do that, something they do not have a lot left after a full round.

To be fair, if you're a heretic, you should be stealing money from your victim's IDs. It's just good business.

That malf problem might be resovable if you machine overload the gates, but specifically for traitors, have you trier using the CRAB-17? It does quite literally exactly what you want. Removes everyones money and gives it to you.

Why the fuck should we, in a game that is infamous for its interlocking systems and creativity have a shuttle that bottlenecks creativity so the only solution is "get money lmao"?

Make the doors breakable. That way you can have some good design and have multiple ways of tackling the problem: Breaking the walls (and risking getting caught), using the CRAB-17, doing bounties, etc.
The current shuttle is genuinely awful and completely against what SS13 has been doing for years.

If there's a common way to break the pay checkers then the shuttle's gimmick will be positively ruined, a better solution is letting hijackers veto purchased shuttles before they arrive

EuSouAFazenda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:39 am Why the fuck should we, in a game that is infamous for its interlocking systems and creativity have a shuttle that bottlenecks creativity so the only solution is "get money lmao"?

This is a good way to put why I don't like any of the gimmick shuttles, you have a billion different ways to influence how the round develops over time but as soon as one of these shuttles is bought everyone knows exactly what the end of the round is going to be like

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:39 am If there's a common way to break the pay checkers then the shuttle's gimmick will be positively ruined, a better solution is letting hijackers veto purchased shuttles before they arrive

Yeah, they're supposed to be indestructible in the way the forcewalls that used to be there were. As soon as the crew can reliably break in the shuttle becomes pointless. You're right that this shuttle isn't the only shuttle that fucks people over in terms of hijacking and just completing an escape objective.

Wait... So you're telling me that a traitor which can use one telecrystal to gain 5000 credits in their uplink can't afford to get in the front cabin of a shuttle that forces almost all crew members in the back making it impossible for them to get to you while you hijack the shuttle, and yet still fail to hijack the shuttle?

I have a news flash for you.
This is a skill issue.

EDIT: You can also as a cyborg and AI, teleport into the luxury shuttle via beacon for free.
SECOND EDIT: Also further reinforcing my news flash that this is a skill issue.

Traitor is not the only antag dingus

Noodlecat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:15 am Traitor is not the only antag dingus

It's the only antag with a hijack objective that I'm aware of.

Heretics, rev heads after revolutionary fail, heads of staff after rev win, wizards( i legit saw a wizard get cucked by the lux shuttle once and that inspired me to make this post), blood brothers(some down streams have them on) and xenos(also big inspiration for this post as they have no way of getting to the shuttle bridge at all). All these antags can get hijack and get cucked by the lux shuttle.

And before all of you compare this to the arena shuttle, the arena shuttle costs lots of money and requires bubblegum to be killed, while the lux shuttle has a very low cost and has zero requirements.

Noodlecat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:42 pm Heretics, rev heads after revolutionary fail, heads of staff after rev win, wizards( i legit saw a wizard get cucked by the lux shuttle once and that inspired me to make this post), blood brothers(some down streams have them on) and xenos(also big inspiration for this post as they have no way of getting to the shuttle bridge at all). All these antags can get hijack and get cucked by the lux shuttle.

Can’t they just murder someone and take their money though? Or break into the morgue and do some grave-robbing?

Xenos are different because they lack normal hands but I don’t think they have any shuttle-related objectives.

just bump up the cost or otherwise change the requirements if its too easy to get?

Not very luxury if its in every third round.

Also many captains will buy the shuttle when they call it, giving all antags at most 20 minutes to prepare and completely change their playstyles around an easy to buy shuttle that costs less money than cargo starts with.
In general a single shuttle that costs 7000 cr and has no unlock requirement should be able to fundamentally change an antag’s round, and force them to stop whatever they are doing and get money. And ask yourself, “as an antag how often do I ever collect money?”.

Also the fact that the shuttle is literally indestructible makes it impossible to blow up, also making it a super hard hijack

Cobby wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:20 pm just bump up the cost or otherwise change the requirements if its too easy to get?

Not very luxury if its in every third round.

Kinda wonky tbh that the Raven is both more luxurious and more expensive than the so-called Luxury Shuttle.

any of the nonstandard shuttles are awful because people don't actually map things that have a design intent behind them, just what they think is cool.

oranges wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:15 pm any of the nonstandard shuttles are awful because people don't actually map things that have a design intent behind them, just what they think is cool.

Based oranges.
Honestly that's the same reason why I hate genetics and mining but that can go in its own thread.

I enjoy the luxury shuttle. It gives me something to work for in a given shift, and even if I don’t make it riding in the back is always fun.

No gimmick should be as sacred and inviolable as the luxury shuttle's. It's shit.
The thing is, if you enforce the shuttle's gimmick too much(we are here), you limit hijack and stealth potential.
If you don't enforce it enough, the gimmick is easily bypassed and it's no different from the other shuttles.
I wouldn't miss it. It's a grief shuttle in disguise.

There is nothing wrong with so-called "grief shuttles". Change my mind.

I think having to adapt to the changing circumstances of a particular shuttle being bought late-in is a good exercise in creative antagging. I made sure that there was a pathway from steerage into first class through, so even a poor traitor who can't afford their way in could do something interesting like lure in a sec officer and steal their money to get to first class (or alternatively steal small increments from everyone in steerage til they can get up there). It will be an uphill battle for sure if you are an impoverished antag, but it should have atleast some potential for victory.

Creative antagging isn’t when you are forced via indestructible walls to play in one specific way

Noodlecat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:42 pm Creative antagging isn’t when you are forced via indestructible walls to play in one specific way

Rob the vault
Murder people and steal their cash
Break into the morgue and steal cash from the dead
Break into medbay and steal cash from patients
Sell antag gear/stolen items to powergamers on the black market
Do a bounty cube
Comandeer the kitchen/bar and serve robots
Use 1TC to get the cash briefcase
Wear a silly costume and beg for money in departures

And this is just what I thought of in a couple minutes.

Either way we should not have a indestructible shuttle

But why, if you're so dead set on hijacking, why can't you do some fairly basic antagonistic acts (like Farquar posted). Needing to change your playstyle depending on the circumstances is paramount to SS13

Just had a round on Terry where I was one of a select few with enough credits to get into first class and it was unequivocably based. We had enterprising poors with TK throwing food around and attacking us with things and for some reason borgs spacing first class. But we were too wealthy to care. A borg had built a disposal pipe underneath the scanner gate in the shuttle brig, but the other crabs were too busy getting in its way for it to create the disposal trunk necessary for them to leave their bucket, which gave us time to destroy the pipe. Truly heartening stuff. If you could destroy the walls it would ruin it.