/tg/Station 13

MODsuits have been merged!
Please post any feedback you have in this thread.
You can read the roadmap on things to be done at some time here: https://hackmd.io/@icpVWOPuRbqlv9pPsbvBxw/SyCNGPnwF

very cool, though you should look at organising the modsuit modules in the robotics console as it's packed into one big list

Finally. Modsuits. In 2021!!

Don't let ai's possess modsuits

those jerks are too busy having fun to watch cameras and see people die in a plasma fire at arrivals

high bias here

Okay, so first things from resident AI maniac.
Camera move needs smoothing.
It would probably need ais that are inside cut off from binary chat, and impossible to sync borgs to.
Toolbar icons become transparent really often
Since its based on an icard that means the AI inside sees only when there is external camera, could you try and make any way to actually see from the modsuit point of view.
And i absolutely love it

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:30 pm Don't let ai's possess modsuits

those jerks are too busy having fun to watch cameras and see people die in a plasma fire at arrivals

high bias here

I seriously think PAI's role should be entirely modsuit related

its really strange that security/ captain hardsuits dont give you any protection at all.
securities literal job is to combat threats, so i dont see why their hardsuits shouldnt protect you at all. i like using them cause they are very cool, but as an officer, the speed debuff and no prot at all is very punishing and i dont think its a good trade off for the utility

hardsuits had prot before and they werent overpowered so im not sure why they would be now, the slowdown is enough of a disadvantage

the headcoder said to give them no armor

orange man pls reconsider

Okay so I've been putting feedback in other places but was advised to put it in this thread I just found out existed.

1: As it currently is AI vision is linked to the camera network, however if the AI is inserted into a modsuit then it should be also able to draw vision from the suit itself. If the modsuit is on lavaland for example they will be unable to help their suit occupant as they won't be able to see. As a result I'd absolutely love it if the AI could get limited vision from the suit. (edit here, apparently it has intellicard vision which is inconsistent at best and only sometimes shows you your surroundings)

2: Since I'm mentioning AI improvements to the modsuit, the AI should be able to unbuckle or help resist out of things. Say your occupant is dead and buckled. You won't be able to move them like you normally can since they're in something as simple as a chair.

3: Apparently only one person (suit user/AI) can control the suit functions at a given time.

-Edits-

4: Some textures seem to need to be updated https://i.imgur.com/2gwQoS1.png

5: If someone has an AI inserted into their modsuit someone with a rogue console could potentially get its user killed by subverting them. Not sure if this is intentional or not, but it'd be nice if an AI's laws couldn't be changed once they were inserted into the suit.

More to come presumably.

Fikou wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:14 am the headcoder said to give them no armor

>Sec and cap no get armor hardsuit

>antag do

what the heck thats unbalanced unfair i dont like mod suits anymore

Haven't had the depth of look I probably should have as playing catch up on mod suits and progressive traitors as I seem to need to know how these things work for my job

Sadly my main perspective on the CMO hardsuit is that I need a space suit to go rescue things, and there's really not enough "buffs" or things in a MOD suit to make it matter that much, leaving it in this primary role as a space walking vehicle.

Won't support a extended telebaton in the back slot (like hardsuit), which is very important IMO for (terry) medical, so there's no real option of wearing it at all times (maybe thats the intention, like hardsuit), even though the speed debuff will probably end up costing lives (speed very important for survival). The default garment / winter coat will allow this, so this ends up being the default equipment.

Which, like hardsuits, leaves it as an occasional use suit for space, except you have to do more overhead work with transferring bag contents over, turning on 4 pieces and then activating the whole suit. Which isn't a huge ammount more, but suit swapping is already a little fiddly as you juggle clothes, telebaton, oxygen tank. But essentially for occasional use it's just slightly less efficient than using the old hardsuit. Or going to EVA and throwing on an instantly ready two piece outfit.


Can see it might be cool outside of this situation. Amusingly an MD who doesn't have a telebaton to care about will probably find it way cooler to just wear all the time, especially if they can get some funny modules for it (crew pinpointer module?), but if science is making the modules I wouldn't expect medical to see many (see also why grey slime core scan was removed from medical research. and the lack of healing mechs with occasional bursts of interest from science punctuated by a month or two of none)

So, on balance, as a CMO suit for doing a CMO job it's just a little more inconvenient most of the time.

(Also I'm gonna laugh the day the syringe injection kills the patient with its brute. It's inevitable really)

I think a wonderful small change would be making the modsuit only slow you down when a part is deployed. If you have no parts and you're just wearing it on your back, you're taking no backpack and a very slow bootup as a downside already. Should it really also slow you down, even entirely unextended?

Do they replace the previously armoured security and captain's hardsuits with unarmoured ones?

cacogen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:02 am Do they replace the previously armoured security and captain's hardsuits with unarmoured ones?

yep

Well, that's dumb. Hopefully they reconsider.

Having played a round with these, I was annoyed by how slowly they activate and how you have to deactivate the whole suit and then turn off the helmet in order to eat. I wish you could just deactivate that specific portion of the suit and that that was also the same as unequipping it. It would be much more fluid and easier to use repetitively.

There's a module that lets you eat through the helmet if you want to be able to eat with the suit on.

The_Silver_Nuke wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:02 pm There's a module that lets you eat through the helmet if you want to be able to eat with the suit on.

God I loved loudly explaining each module as I use it

"Oh I don't need to take off the suit to eat, see, I recently got the eating module and blah blah blah..."

Got the nukie hardsuit. The mode with the cool visor is not the space mode, but is instead combat mode.

This confused me and caused me to take a lot of damage in space.

I miss the cool easy to read action buttons a bit.. But the most terrifying thing is how if you accidentally deactivate your suit, You cant stop the deactivation process so you just watch as your armor dissapears in fear.

there's no way to cancel activation/deactivation once it starts which messed me up several times

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:59 pm there's no way to cancel activation/deactivation once it starts which messed me up several times

this, and also the combat modsuits are really clunky to use, makes them much more difficult to effectively use when in any sort of combat.
It's also hard to tell what module does what in the 'active module' radial, they need tooltips of some sort because I can't tell what each one does.

Additional feedback I thought of, some modules need to show they're active and give feedback for turning on/off

I don't think it's necessary that they take up 5 inventory slots. With all of the complaints about insulated gloves and how people are afraid of a "best in slot," it just seems kind of weird how they can work as gloves. And as far as I can tell the boots do absolutely nothing, so why take up that slot? It's just clunky. I think it would be better to just have a suit and head slot like hardsuits since the goal seems to be replace hardsuits with a better system and not do something entirely different. Then the suit doesn't have to give electricity protection when it has armor.

Soda_Flavor wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:24 pm I don't think it's necessary that they take up 5 inventory slots. With all of the complaints about insulated gloves and how people are afraid of a "best in slot," it just seems kind of weird how they can work as gloves. And as far as I can tell the boots do absolutely nothing, so why take up that slot? It's just clunky. I think it would be better to just have a suit and head slot like hardsuits since the goal seems to be replace hardsuits with a better system and not do something entirely different. Then the suit doesn't have to give electricity protection when it has armor.

rule of cool

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:59 pm there's no way to cancel activation/deactivation once it starts which messed me up several times

A real iron man never interrupts their activation scene

Okay, bit more findings, all of them from ai point of view, i wont lower myself to playing organic.
Ai interface if FUBAR currently.
if the suit gets destroyed by enough damage it round removes its ai occupant, maybe make it eject a new icard with the silicon inside if that happens.
If you dont change the ability to upload AI into pAI instead it really should cut the ai inside from binary, its too destructive to any subverters or malfs, since you cannot subvert ai that is in suit.

tether module should be able to hook onto catwalks, and I do agree with arm's post about slowdown even when fully unequipped

The_Silver_Nuke wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:02 pm There's a module that lets you eat through the helmet if you want to be able to eat with the suit on.

I know, but unless the suits start with them you're going to have to do it manually until you get one. I'm not sure where you get them from, either. I saw engineers printing modules from an exosuit fabricator they'd built, but I'm not sure if they come from techfabs as well. The game doesn't tell you and I didn't think to check the wiki for an article.

Walking around as Jarvis is great. Can't wait for AI-suit interactions to be fixed!
Some of the stuff about the suits themselves were somewhat confusing at first, but once I got around to wearing one most confusion got cleared up. (The biggest question was how to remove things without getting your crowbar eaten and that ended up being simple, screwing it open makes you work on it instead of put stuff into it.)
Maybe there could be some kind of module for part diagnostics, like how the borgs get their robotact menu, only to figure out what functions are affected when something happens like an EMP or you're just stupid and cutting wires

I really dislike how modsuits all have the space ninja startup system, and you cannot take any of them off without using the space ninja shut-down system.

It makes healing in one a pain. For example, take damage in the nukie hardsuit, and you gotta do the whole 1 minute ETA instead of just drinking from a vial.

TLDR: Please allow at least a few hardsuits to detach their headslot while the suit is active. especially when the nukie hardsuits flavor text says that it has to have openings to allow for armor, and prevent space-usage. But it has no openings when it comes to medical healing!

Edit: I am a silly person who did not do my research. Some modsuits do have the ability to eat while active.

Please give all antag modsuits the eating apparatus. Except for space ninja. They can suffer like they did before modsuits.

The idea of having MODsuits be utility-only with no combat functions really needs reconsidering.

There needs modsuit themes that arent spaceproof. It would add a lot more variety and thought into how you build your suit.

Activation time for the suits should be a variable instead of a define for more MODular code, plus that could be an advantage or disadvantage to a suit.

The syndicate modsuit sprites are extremely wonky, i'd recommend a review into their sprites.

There are occasional layering issues with jumpsuits on some modsuits.

The syndicate armor plates dont provide less slowdown once in combat mode, making the regular syndie modsuits completely useless in comparison to syndicate softsuits.

Same thing with security MODsuits in comparison to swatsuits or just firesuit + coffee if they wish to do their job in space.

There should be a bit more research done into how to handle storage mechanics, right now modsuit storage is quite the issue since there's not really a "safe" way to store your items.

>There needs modsuit themes that arent spaceproof. It would add a lot more variety and thought into how you build your suit.

Do you have any practical ideas or are you just wish posting

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:10 am Please give all antag modsuits the eating apparatus. Except for space ninja. They can suffer like they did before modsuits.

It's supposed to be an active choice shadow

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:32 am

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:10 am Please give all antag modsuits the eating apparatus. Except for space ninja. They can suffer like they did before modsuits.

It's supposed to be an active choice shadow

Okay but it's kind of unfair to do a 1v50 crewbattle as a nuke/wizard (the only other two hardsuit antags) and you cant heal without doing a 1 minute take off session.

It made sense for space ninjas. They have a katana! But now that same mechanic just kind of got given to everyone

no I mean if they get the module it should be something they buy or choose, not just have for free.

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:01 pm no I mean if they get the module it should be something they buy or choose, not just have for free.

oh yeah thats fine

wizard and nukie base fully upgraded mod autolathes (for tc/wizard points potentially) time

Miners Forgotten and Left Behind

This truly is the end of an era. Prior to this change Miners had more access to old Hard-suits than Engineer or Sec. Hard-suits were purchasable Directly out of the Mining Vending Machine. The cost of which was equivalent to 3 Skeleton Keys, Two Luxury pens, or 5 Drop Pods. Not a small amount of work to acquire 2000 Points, But we can all agree worth it.

Old Mining Hard-suits were the bread and butter of Miner activity station side. You would never see a miner walking around in them because they make us slow, We hate slow. It is much easier to carry in hands and run to the exit then put it on. Though without being called in by a Head, Miners rarely spend a lot of time station side. The old Hard-suits being further augmented by what Xeno Bio has to offer I think created one of the best

Miners have always enjoyed High Melee Defense, the old Hard-suits even had the function of upgrades just like the Explorer Suit. Both suits were upgrade-able to 7 Melee Defense, which for their role on the station is very much needed. By fighting against Goliath's, a creature I'm sure that has killed more miners than any other, you can skin the creature and acquire Goliath Plates each one offering a additional point of Melee Defense for the armor. Thematically this can also be done to the Ripley Mech.

Both the Mech and the old Hard-suit would be graphically updated as they were upgraded. A very pleasing experience to see your Hard-suit appearing differently as the Melee Defense increases I assure you. Walking into mining station with a fully upgraded old Hard-suit would almost always get a comment from other miners, reliably being able to get the points and killing the mobs to do this is almost like getting the legendary Miner cape, a point of honor even.

All these things have been left out of the New Mod-suits. While they do certainly add functions previously unavailable to old Hard-suits they leave out all previous benefits as far as miners are concerned.


TLDR; If you could give the Mining Mod-suit variant a base melee defense, A way to upgrade that armor over time and Still be purchasable from the vendor I would say this was the best update in the history of the game.

>Old Mining Hard-suits were the bread and butter of Miner activity station side.

>Miners have always enjoyed High Melee Defense



I think the miners can cope.

Asking that the new modsuits have what the old hardsuits had is pretty reasonable I think. Does engineering have to buy something from a vendor to bring to robotics to have them build ther hardsuits? No Only Miners.
Did the Atmos tech Modsuits retain ther firproofness and thus ther usefullness? Yes.
Did the Mining Modsuits retain ther melee defense and thus ther usefullness? No.

Heolo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:46 am Asking that the new modsuits have what the old hardsuits had is pretty reasonable I think.

Well, the modsuits can actually do more than the old hardsuits, so maybe not as reasonable as you first think.

Heolo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:46 am Does engineering have to buy something from a vendor to bring to robotics to have them build ther hardsuits? No Only Miners.

That's fair, they really should be able to just get the whole thing. I'm sure robotics appreciates the extra duty, but the purchase should really just come with the drill. Or a mining voucher to get the modsuit!

Heolo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:46 am Did the Atmos tech Modsuits retain ther firproofness and thus ther usefullness? Yes.
Did the Mining Modsuits retain ther melee defense and thus ther usefullness? No.

armor = list(MELEE = 30, BULLET = 5, LASER = 10, ENERGY = 20, BOMB = 50, BIO = 100, RAD = 50, FIRE = 50, ACID = 75, WOUND = 15)
30 melee defense does not justify a slowdown in mining and it shows because in reality nobody was going around mining in hardsuits until they had to on the asteroid

Ah but you forget that you could upgrade the old hard-suit with Golaith plates to 70 which made it much more viable. I would be happy if they just had SOME base defense instead of Zero.

As far as the new functionality that was added goes, I mean its a good mid game stuff but I dont really see myself going out of the way to have something slower than a plasma cutter, less continent than a satchel of holding, and disables other gear like Necropolis chest Mining Gloves, Or Ice Miner Boots. Especially because they don't have any melee defense.

The difference is that nerfing mining's ability on the station is an ongoing project, and this just ended up being a nice place to hit a bullet point.

Yes it does seem like someone is going out of ther way to make sure Miners are left out here.

Infact after going back and checking, all the base modsuits have exactly the same values for defense. Secmod Modsuits, Engi-Modsuits, Mining suits and Standard Modsuits. All have the same defensive Values. Are you really gonna tell me that thats not an oversight. Sec modsuits with no bullet or laser defense? Mining modsuits with no melee defense? These things seem really silly to those who work in said departments.

Can't answer for security, but mining modsuits not having melee defense is definitely intentional for the reason I posted, right above your comment.

It seems like its someones goal to make sure any one department cannot stand against a single traitor, except maybe Sec. I wouldn't be surprised if the next change up the pipe is to get rid of those "old" clunky mechs.

We are going sci fi babyyy

Edit: I still want my power rangers combo megazord. The more players controlling it. The stronger and faster it is. It uses a vote system like the player controlled singulo

The Pyro bundle is cucked because of an oversight on Modsuits. The modsuits take up the backpack slot. The flamethrower ALSO uses the backpack slot.

Wonder if the same applies to atmos backpack firefighting tanks and things of that ilk