MODsuit feedback thread

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Coastfront
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Coastfront » #624262

Bottom post of the previous page:

Alright time for me to throw in my 2 cents so that i can feel like i atleast contributed to discussion despite that this is probably pointless.

Gonna do this in a segmented manner
1. Sprites
This is the most just personal preference once, IMO the syndicate sprites suck. Not only do i personally find them ugly, They just look, off. The standard nukie suit just looks overly bulky, not really like a COMBAT suit, And the elite suit looks visibly less armored than its old sprite. I even got a few online friends and showed them the new elite suit, old, and then the new standard, And 4/6 people agree'd that the new elite suit looks the LEAST armored of all of them, if they had to tell what it was with no context.
ALSO WHY DOES THE C L O W N SUIT, LACK, A CLOWN MASK.

2. The eternal war of the armor aspect.
Since the stance on crew modsuit armor is already decided, In that they wont be getting any, I'm not even going to comment on crew modsuits in that regard.
What I am going to comment on, are the syndicate armor booster system. Holy christ does this feel bad for what its meant to accomplish. For starters, a brief comparison to the old nukie suits vs the armor booster, just in mechanics.
Old suit gave you the choice between EVA protection, Or being able to move quickly. This meant that if nukies wanted to be extremely destructive, or use tb safely, They'd have to either cut gravity first or suck up the fact that they arent gonna be topspeed.
New modsuit, is the choice between eva protection, and armor. (IIRC you're slow even with armor, so get fucked nukies) This means, that when people catch on to ops not having armor, The meta is gonna be bring the disk to space near the station to force the ops to not be armored, to drastically speed up the time to kill. I think that's bad for an already janky mode (war-ops). The war-ops meta right now isnt that fun, Since nukies usually die or get disk 5 minutes after arrival, I don't get why that needs to be shortened to dying/getting it 3 minutes after arrival.

3. General jank/clunk in usefulness compared to hardsuits.
For the crew, After modsuits being a new fad blows over, I don't see departments like security ever using theirs for what sec would usually use spaceprot for. I don't see the captain ever taking his modsuit out of its storage much, ETC. What i do see, Is sec going into EVA, and taking soft suits and throwing their modsuits into a broom closet. If someone's breaking into the armory from space, Which is the preferable option.
A. A suit that takes ages to put on, And gives very few, if no real benefits for sec
B. A suit where you take off a helmet, chestpiece, slap it on and your good.
These feel like they're just going to slip into being niche, and soft suits being more generally used out of it being convenient.
For nukies/wiz, This is especially bad for them.
The hardsuit wasn't that sucky for doing a stealth strat, since you could ditch it pretty fast, With modsuits, theres a solid 1 minute window, before you can even get non sus clothes, Where if someone shows up not only are you unarmored, but also now extremely exposed, and then have to spend another minute turning the damn thing back on because you cant cancel taking it off.
For loud, This is also going to make healing more frustrating, Which is very sucky for antags that are meant to 4v50-60 the crew. And makes an even worse deal for traitors buying it.For traitors, Why is an item they spend their, VERY LIMITED telecrystals on, Potentially worse at what they'd want it for than station loot?


4. The most mendable issue
Right now modules, especially station side, dont seem as good as the item they replaced. Most of the modules just do what certain hand-held items already do. Built in medscanner, Yay. I sure am happy I have been given an item i could put in my packback, built into a slow, clunky suit. Etc. The clamp, is one of the only ones that isnt dogshit, soley because of its use in smuggling and concealing large weapons. (Putting maxcaps in a crate, and clamp carrying it) And that IS something thats good, The cloaking module makes you harder to spot in space as long as you arent doing anything, Thats neat. But the rest just arent very noticable. I fully get that new, more useful modules are probably going to come eventually, But this is what im putting as immediate feedback on the mods.

5. A bit of an issue on mouse.
This is probably the niche'st thing i talk about. Middleclicking. I think in terms of accesibility, It'd be better if stuff like the drill/clamp, Just acted like retractable drills/clamps in terms of how you use it. On activating the drill pops into your active hand, you use it at energy, activate again and it pops out. Like an armblade. Same with the clamp.(though i imagine it'd be harder with the clamp)
Why do i bring this up? My mouse's scroll wheel, is mostly broken, I use a very old mouse. So middle clicking is extremely inconsistant on it, with no way to rebind it. This means i either stare at a box for one minute spamming my mouse and hoping it works, Or i never use the clamp and any modules that require middle clicks. And i'd be willing to bet im probably not the only person who has a janky middle click.

Right now my impressions on this is that they're just way jankier, slower, ultimately inferior hardsuits. There could be researchable mods to speed up the boot sequence, Syndicate suits could potentially have purchasable mods to make them move faster, If modsuits are going to be entirely based off of active/passive utilities to justify all of the station side ones having zero armor, and the general loss of speed and ease of use, Then we're gonna need alot more mods to give that utility, And potentially slightly more complexity storage on suits, And maybe making them not eat your hand glove slot, Because if i wind up seeing a "adds tackling" mod, when someone could literally put on a eva suit and wear gripper gloves, I am going to have an anuerysm.
Tl;dr on the above paragraph. These need alot of work, and either some quality of life mods for nukies and the crew, Or tweaks to the slots they eat up and their loadup times.

Anyway time to get the customary "too long didnt read" reactionary image or something.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by toemas » #624378

oranges wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:44 pmI don't care
y
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oranges
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by oranges » #624384

I have gone completely insane
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sinfulbliss
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by sinfulbliss » #624397

Shouldn't need to powergame MOD attachments to make modsuits as viable as their hardsuit counterparts were previously.
Less armor is understandable since they don't have the slowdown hardsuits did. But for cap's swatsuit, and arguably HoS+sec, no armor whatsoever makes them clear downgrades and leaves them very vulnerable. It's also somewhat funny you can be bottle-stunned with a modsuit on. Problem is that anyone can print a sec modsuit, so buffing them destabilizes modsuit balance as a whole. They should probably be unique to fix this (only in the sec-EVA storage).

Replacing the shoe+glove slot is also a clear downgrade unless you've powergamed attachments that make them worth it. Previously you could use insuls, grippers, etc with a hardsuit, now the modsuit prevents this. For the same reason nukies end up slipping and dying because they didn't buy the no-slip module, or killed in 3 hits because they didn't buy the armor-module. Adding a new module for every function that was already pre-packaged in hardsuits seems like a bandaid solution and increases the learning curve of what's already a very complex game. Maybe it will change over time but nukies are currently very strongly nerfed.

The time it takes to remove the modsuit and put it back on is also a big nerf. To eat, drink, or more importantly heal, you would need to find an unspaced spot, stand still for a while, treat yourself, then re-enable. In practice you don't always have the opportunity to do this. The value of being able to on-the-fly treat brute/burn wounds or eat+drink was very useful for combat, so this change is a further space combat nerf for modsuits. In an ideal world they would preserve all the functionality of hardsuits, while adding some cool extra mod-features that people enjoy (they accomplish this second part very well).
Spoiler:
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Shadowflame909 » #624401

Pretty much every modsuit has space ninja suit drawbacks but none of the benefits. No teleport katana and no shuriken generator
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by thebleh » #624403

Tools shouldn't be features.
oranges wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:11 am I have gone completely insane
That's not a problem, no one requests that you be sane, we're simply wishing you were competent.
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Fikou
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Fikou » #624412

Coastfront wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:17 pm words
thanks for the feedback!
1. i agree, the syndicate suit sprites im not fully satisfied with, i think the clown suit doesnt need a special mask when it already has a wig and the red nose
2 and 3. the security suits and syndicate suits are being looked at yes
4. i think this is ignoring the buffs these items have received, like the health scanner's instant wearer scan or the fact you can use it in range, or how you can combine visors with glasses of your own, or some of the unique (mostly medical, i think that department has the most unique stuff) modules like the organ thrower or piercing large capacity injector
5. this is actually in the prefs menu! you can switch between middle and altclick, if you wanted to you could code ctrl/shift support too
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Vinny » #624494

1. Roboticists should get an order console similar to cargo's where people can order modsuits with their preferred attachments (along with other robo things like medbots). Orders can be accepted or denied, and the person who ordered it would be informed with a PDA message wheter his order got accepted/denied/is ready. (cargo should also get this aswell, possibly).
why its good for the game: streamlines, incentivizes modsuit usage, dont have to cntrl+c/cntrl+v your wanted mods every round

2. more medical mods, I want to be a fully kitted medical bossman
-The portable IV one that was suggested on the hackmd is pretty cool conceptually & useful
-Quicker stripping (for unconscious) or/and instant stripping (for dead+on stasis beds or something) using ((portable bluespace trauma shears)) that dont destroy clothing
-Faster surgery step speed
-Automatic/robotic surgery: surgery steps have to be put in manually like normal, but you can use your other hand to do other things at the same time (increases potential APM & treatment speed) (especially useful for self repeating steps like tend wounds)
..
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Bawhoppennn » #624499

They're good I think
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by The_Silver_Nuke » #624816

Are piercing syringes meant to be deflected by modsuits? Is that an intended feature or a bug?
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Fikou » #625106

The_Silver_Nuke wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:09 am Are piercing syringes meant to be deflected by modsuits? Is that an intended feature or a bug?
are you sure something different didnt happen like a carp user or something
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by The_Silver_Nuke » #625797

No it actually straight got deflected. I'll file a bug report then because it sounds unintentional.

-Edit- I am dumb. Just, so dumb. Anyway I reviewed the logs just to double check before I submitted a bug report and I was using a normal syringe instead of a piercing one. *sigh Round 176553 when I shot Kendrickorium. This is what happens when you mix up your syringes in your chem bag.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by cacogen » #627645

Can modsuits just unequip whatever you're wearing if you try to deploy them with a full slot? It's agony trying to deploy it only to get the EEERRNT sound and have to figure out what's in the way and unequip it while you melt or freeze to whatever environment made you try to deploy the modsuit in the first place.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #628277

They stink and i dont like em
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by cacogen » #628321

I don't like the lack of bag space and having to wait to unequip a space suit.

After the AI reported me for being in the captain's office trying to plant a bug for 0 TC and 53.43534 reputation on Manuel I fucked off to space with an engineering modsuit like Modesto Cunanan in ACS when he's fleeing the country to avoid embezzlement charges and shoulder checks his wife on the way out the door and I found one of those generic EVA suits in that knockoff UFO you can fly around to loot the rest of the ruins on the z-level and then fuck off back to the station with and I immediately switched to that so I could wear a bag with more space than the modsuit and just take it off instantly when needed. I would never switch an engineering hardsuit for a regular EVA suit.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Donpedrito » #628740

It’d be neat if the admin-only bluespace storage module was printable with one of the last MODsuit tech nodes (maybe even its own node that requires both anomalock modules and advanced bluespace storage) but required a bluespace core just like a regular bag of holding or a teleporter module does; I haven’t seen a bag of holding used in literally years so I don’t think it would be too overused.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Pandarsenic » #628858

Donpedrito wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:48 pm It’d be neat if the admin-only bluespace storage module was printable with one of the last MODsuit tech nodes (maybe even its own node that requires both anomalock modules and advanced bluespace storage) but required a bluespace core just like a regular bag of holding or a teleporter module does; I haven’t seen a bag of holding used in literally years so I don’t think it would be too overused.
I made a few in the summer but cores are too big of a burden for normal use, yeah.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by cacogen » #628932

One round a couple of months ago I saw the E.X.P.E.R.I-MENTOR used to produce unlimited bags of holding like it was like Christmas or early morning Sybil2 nearing the forty minute mark after R&D had destructive analyzed all the subspace ansibles from tcomms storage. Why have cool shit if you never get to see it?
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by mstachife » #630302

Only PAIs should be able to go in a modsuit imo. They don't have binary; it would keep malf AI's round from being total'd. Not to mention it would lead to more people actually using PAIs.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Pandarsenic » #635826

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31397

New Plasmeme Meta: Put stolen things in your modsuit storage and people cannot search you without killing you.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Agux909 » #635862

My new Plasmaman static is called Bagsparium X.
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massa
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by massa » #637589

I want hardsuits back.

Modsuits are cool and you guys put effort into them but hardsuits were just modsuits without all the stuff and the process and shit that gets you killed. They're clunky and awkward and had no reason to overtake hardsuits, which were elegant and easy. Modsuits have gotten me killed multiple times for their many quirks, the shit they do to your slots is still awful, they're just hardsuits but with a song and dance to them. We don't need more complex multi-step processes for shit and interfaces for things that literally were a button click and not an issue before.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by sinfulbliss » #637593

New holster module and pepper shoulder PR on sec suits now make them on-par with old sec hardsuits, even without the strong armor I'd say, which is very cool.

Only thing now is the nukie modsuit. I've noticed LOTS of nukies not have their armor module on, and get owned since without it they're fighting naked. Hell I even forgot to turn it on for a nukie round recently. One sort of assumes the suit itself has armor built in like most things, so it's a bit counterintuitive. However this would be entirely fixed by moving the armor module to a button on the top left of the screen, just like the hardsuits had. That one less step of clicking makes a world of distance (just like the magnetic module) when you're mid-combat or in a high intensity situation.

(Last thing about the nukie modsuits - the noslip module is CRAZY expensive. It should be 2 TC just like noslips are. When nukies aren't warops, that 2 TC is actually quite valuable)
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by massa » #637594

sinfulbliss wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:22 pm New holster module and pepper shoulder PR on sec suits now make them on-par with old sec hardsuits, even without the strong armor I'd say, which is very cool.

Only thing now is the nukie modsuit. I've noticed LOTS of nukies not have their armor module on, and get owned since without it they're fighting naked. Hell I even forgot to turn it on for a nukie round recently. One sort of assumes the suit itself has armor built in like most things, so it's a bit counterintuitive. However this would be entirely fixed by moving the armor module to a button on the top left of the screen, just like the hardsuits had. That one less step of clicking makes a world of distance (just like the magnetic module) when you're mid-combat or in a high intensity situation.

(Last thing about the nukie modsuits - the noslip module is CRAZY expensive. It should be 2 TC just like noslips are. When nukies aren't warops, that 2 TC is actually quite valuable)
Armor module is certain death because nukies have to fight in vacuum if they're not idiots, and an afterthought because yeah it's SO easy to forget about. I don't want to be hitting all sorts of buttons and opening panels and shit. Because my space worthy, futuristic alloy plated, military grade SPACE STATION COMBAT RAIDING SUIT should just have armor because it is armor. What exactly do we "turn on"? It's armor.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by Capsandi » #637630

Maybe nukies should be able to buy intellicard AIs for their modsuits under reinforcements so the nukie can focus on killing people while the ai does all the button pushing
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by toemas » #638682

Modsuits are very useful and fun to use with the new holster and armor changes. Great work, Fikou! All of the problems i had with them initially are gone.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by cacogen » #638700

it still take iii year to deploy
Last edited by cacogen on Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MODsuit feedback thread

Post by blackdav123 » #638750

Nukie suits are still really bad. They cant use some of their items, such as the combat gloves plus. deploy time is too damn long for them and the modsuits make them really clunky. I think a better solution than making 40 new modules for the suits would be to bring them closer to how hardsuits were, and make it so you dont need to deploy the hardsuit over your hands and head and feet and such. Surely the syndicate has stolen enough technology to make their suits not so primitive as nanotransen's cheapest modsuits?
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