Holding people at gunpoint isn't in a good place right now

For feedback on the game code and design. Feedback on server rules and playstyle belong in Policy Discussion.
Post Reply
User avatar
Itseasytosee2me
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:14 am
Byond Username: Rectification
Location: Space Station 13

Holding people at gunpoint isn't in a good place right now

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #624598

The problem is twofold

The first problem is combat mode and time has somewhat mangled it away from the way it was originally envisioned. Originally you could move around while you had someone held up, which is a much more robust ability as it allowed you to stand back in case they tried anything, as well as giving you some more freedom and generally feeling better. Currently, due to bugs rather than intentional design, you must be in melee to hold someone up, and if you move at all it is broken. This includes being shoved, so all someone has to do you break free of gunpoint is shove your attacker. There are a ton of other ways to break free, including resting and then crawling beneath your attacker, as well as other bugs that you may be aware of, I think it would be smarter to do a redesign rather than going through the process of bug finding and patching all of these issues.

The second problem is the original implementation was too narrowly focused. It takes far too long for the bonuses for damage to kick in. You are unable to shoot your target at will, and manipulating your target in order to shoot them earlier leads to you fumbling your shot. This was intentional implementation, but I think it was short-sighted, shaps wanted this feature to be used in a very specific situation, in which the aggressor has no real intention or desire to shoot the person they are holding up, only ever leading to a shot as a result of somewhat arbitrary and specific actions done by the person being held up. The attacker has no say in what actions might warrant the defender being shot, you are completely at the will of an autonomous trigger finger which fires when it wants to, not when you want to. This would be much less of a problem if the actions that set of the gun were more inclusive, but currently, it's in a bad spot all around.

I have two proposed solutions:

1. The soft approach
Return gunpoint to what it was during its original implementation, find and fix bugs, and locate oversights (such as lying down not triggering the shot.) The negative part of this is whether a shot goes off or not will still remain very arbitrary, and you can have weird situations like your dumbass spaceman just sitting and watching while the guy they are holding up draws a .357 revolver and guns them down without even firing their shot because the player has no choice.

2. Nuclear option
Do a complete rework, and recode the majority of everything. Let people click the holding up icon to shoot their target at any time, otherwise only shoot if they move. This would leave a lot less room for oversight because even if the guy you are holding up starts doing some bullshit to escape, you can just shoot them anyways. You can keep or rework fumble mechanics so crafty spacemen can do cool shit like quickly throw a toolbox at your attacker's hand before they realize what's up and escape, which is how I believe it was originally envisioned.
I think shaps' original dislike of the ability to fire at any time was brought upon by a disdain for the idea you could hold someone at gunpoint for a while, giving them the impression that you are not gonna kill them, and then shoot them dead in one shot. I think anyone who is desperate or stupid enough to trust a syndie had it coming anyway.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
User avatar
Helios
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
Byond Username: Shodansbreak

Re: Holding people at gunpoint isn't in a good place right now

Post by Helios » #624807

It has always been incredibly difficult to hold people hostage in this game
I remember one round getting an emag and syndicate bomb as QM. I got contraband crates, sleepy penned a passing HoS, dragged him to mining, set a bomb with a manual timer and tried to make demands of the station
I forgot to take his armor off, security raided mining, I blew the bomb, I got gibbed and he got cloned
Valorium
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:26 pm
Byond Username: Valorium
Location: Somewhere, I dunno.

Re: Holding people at gunpoint isn't in a good place right now

Post by Valorium » #625247

Making it easier to non-lethally loot people for their gear would be a good change to reduce round removal.
Native Manuellian and Shiptest admin. Ignore me.

Also the author of several drone adventures.
User avatar
Itseasytosee2me
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:14 am
Byond Username: Rectification
Location: Space Station 13

Re: Holding people at gunpoint isn't in a good place right now

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #646497

ok I fixed it
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
User avatar
Pandarsenic
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
Byond Username: Pandarsenic
Location: AI Upload

Re: Holding people at gunpoint isn't in a good place right now

Post by Pandarsenic » #646535

prove it
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
User avatar
Itseasytosee2me
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:14 am
Byond Username: Rectification
Location: Space Station 13

Re: Holding people at gunpoint isn't in a good place right now

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #646548

- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users