Thieves-back (Feedback for Thieves)

[Shadowflame909]

Bottom post of the previous page:

What if, so thieves continue to be a sink on the round, their objectives get changed to be endless.

If they get a certain number of insuls/bodies/ids etc, then they'll green text. But if they get more, their count will be continue to update and show up on the end of round greentext screen, and maybe even change color/get a new message depending on how much they went over their goal.

This way, even if the thief is lame/can only do something really lame. They'll still affect the round by hoarding every single item possible or constantly drain cargo dry for a cooler greentext and thus cause a negative impact on the round

[Pandarsenic]

This way, even if the thief is lame/can only do something really lame. They'll still affect the round by hoarding every single item possible or constantly drain cargo dry for a cooler greentext and thus cause a negative impact on the round

Honestly, I think this is a solid stopgap, at least, to justify thr 4 threat.

[Shadowflame909]

I greentexted as thief on manuel while acting like a complete greytider

Its fun. I just recommend anyone trying to do so have hulk and try to start RP as much as possible or you will die a lot.

[Mothblocks]

https://sb.atlantaned.space/rounds/181071

Threat level: 23.1
Threat left: 19.1
Executed rules:
Roundstart - Thieves: -4 threat

Okay, but... is something about Thieves causing this to fail or is the threat system just really busted?

It's because midround rolls are badly designed.

[Annihilite111]

Have you heard the legend of the Liver Snatcher?

I take back what i said about thieves. Now that hoarders are gone, thief is always an interesting and welcome challange.
Having to do my objectives with no antag gear or killing is a refreshing change of pace that forces creative problem solving and unique gimmicks.
My favorite by far is the organ thief. Most people on MRP play this thief type by harvesting monkeys in morgue, adding zero intrigue to the round. I turn maintenence into a no-go zone and perform constant raids into the hallways for fresh livers to harvest. Of course, most manuel regulars have figured out by now that people being stunprodded, dragged into maint and having their livers harvested means that i rolled organ thief, but thanks to MRP rules i don't tend to get bodied by the valid squad immediately after my first kidnapping.

Organ harvesting operations can be tricky, and there's a lot of stuff you need if you want to succeed! For the benefit of any enterprising organ thieves that may read this, i will detail the required equipment and strategies below:

Material:
Medbay stuff-
Full surgery kit from the medlathe or autolathe. Bedsheets can be used instead of drapes. If you're feeling extra cruel you can instead use a toolset for your maint surgery, adding some extra horror to your dealings.

An organ storage bag (IMPORTANT). You buy this from a vendor in medbay. Might as well get the surgery gear while you're there. Costs about 450 credits

A rollerbed. Good for quickly transporting your captives and a nice surface to perform surgery on. Makes a lot of noise though.

Misc stuff-
Stunprod/baton. Prod recommended since batons take too long/are too risky to get

Cable cuffs/handcuffs. Easily made from wire coils

Fake ID. Not strictly required, but gives you plausible deniability and is especially useful since you can't kill your victims, meaning they will report anything they notice about you to sec. Easiest way to get this is to either find an SSD dude or to stun someone in the hallway and steal theirs.

With these tools, you have all you need to perform illegal and inhumane organ heists! For extra style and FUN you can do xenobiology to turn yourself into a luminescent with an internal bluespace extract for near infinite teleportations. The only thing worse than an organ thief is an organ thief that instantly dabs away through bluespace when you think you've caught him.

[blackdav123]

Whenever I roll thief I'll usually contract some greytider to help me. Most reliable greys will gladly distract sec or do whatever if given a few credits and a spot on the heisting team. One round I did this sec came by right before I was breaking in to steal the RnD thingamabob, my trusty assistant promptly shoved the officer and got dragged to brig for whatever short and meaningless sentence they would assign them. With sec slowly walking to brig, I was off scott free to do my deeds. I made it back to the officer and assistant in time to shove them right before they reached brig, and freed my accomplice. Thieves are great and I cant wait to see thieves' guilds

[Longestarmlonglaw]

thieves should have the ability to recruit people into the guild, making them thieves

[Pandarsenic]

Absolutely do not need any more conversion antags

[Jonathan Gupta]

all the complaints I have are with rulings, but it's a meh stealing crew thingie.

[Longestarmlonglaw]

Absolutely do not need any more conversion antags

But i forgot to mention its like family recruitment

[blackdav123]

"Steal the Blackbox" is really bad as a thief objective. Most goals usually either give you multiple ways of completing them, like the organ thief, or directly harm the station in some way, like the RnD objective. Stealing the blackbox is super easy, and the only impact it has on anyone's round is the thief immediately getting gunned down for having to hold an objective on the shuttle. Replace this objective, remove it, or give the blackbox a purpose on the station that would make it worth protecting like the SM shard.

[Annihilite111]

Snip

Agreed. I stole the ENTIRE ARMORY using a bag of holding, and nothing on the end round screen changed from if i'd just gotten the 3 i was supposed to. If i'm walking around with 11 guns on my person i want my funny text to show it

[Shadowflame909]

I have to disable thief. Nearly got me into suicide-bait/ban-bait trouble.

With such extreme objectives like stealing the nuclear disk, a task you expect a nukie to do. Thieves have to both work in the confines of the escalation system and prioritize non-lethals, while trying to steal high-risk items that will get them killed. Maybe it's easier to rp it away on MRP, but on LRP they have to really TOE the line if they want to silence their target of thievery, whilst still not stepping into full antag territory.

Abductors dont have this issue because they get sleepy batons to do all the hard-combat for them, one of the only other non-lethal side-antags I can think of!

The bright spot light here is that like i've said prior, it reveals that This game doesn't have any decent non-lethal options. The strongest non-lethal weaponry in this game is one of the hardest recipes to craft (zombie powder). While others will always give wriggle room for crewmembers to retaliate. Yet you spawn with a lethal weapon attached to you at roundstart! This simple fact will keep bringing trouble to this antags doorstep, which really shouldn't be handling anything more then a light brig sentence.

My solution is that thieves should spawn in with recipe knowledge that allows them to create stronger non-lethal weapons on station when they need to steal something from another player. Like a buffed version of the boxing gloves that spawn in dorms. Or a special medication that will mute and knock out a target as long as they dont take any damage. Maybe a special make-shift laser-gun mod that cannot be fired normally, but when shot from the hold-up stance it instantly puts them in soft-crit and breaks after use.

Like abductors, this antag can be trusted with these things because they are bound by the rules. Giving them any less is risking them not acting on their antag round and being a waste of threat. (Or creating headaches for admins and players alike. Just like what happened to me.)

[Pandarsenic]

I thought Hoarder was supposed to be gone, or at least not sending Engineers after their own gloves, but I've seen it a few times since then. When was/will be hoarder removal?

[Longestarmlonglaw]

I have to disable thief. Nearly got me into suicide-bait/ban-bait trouble.

With such extreme objectives like stealing the nuclear disk, a task you expect a nukie to do. Thieves have to both work in the confines of the escalation system and prioritize non-lethals, while trying to steal high-risk items that will get them killed. Maybe it's easier to rp it away on MRP, but on LRP they have to really TOE the line if they want to silence their target of thievery, whilst still not stepping into full antag territory.

Abductors dont have this issue because they get sleepy batons to do all the hard-combat for them, one of the only other non-lethal side-antags I can think of!

The bright spot light here is that like i've said prior, it reveals that This game doesn't have any decent non-lethal options. The strongest non-lethal weaponry in this game is one of the hardest recipes to craft (zombie powder). While others will always give wriggle room for crewmembers to retaliate. Yet you spawn with a lethal weapon attached to you at roundstart! This simple fact will keep bringing trouble to this antags doorstep, which really shouldn't be handling anything more then a light brig sentence.

My solution is that thieves should spawn in with recipe knowledge that allows them to create stronger non-lethal weapons on station when they need to steal something from another player. Like a buffed version of the boxing gloves that spawn in dorms. Or a special medication that will mute and knock out a target as long as they dont take any damage. Maybe a special make-shift laser-gun mod that cannot be fired normally, but when shot from the hold-up stance it instantly puts them in soft-crit and breaks after use.

Like abductors, this antag can be trusted with these things because they are bound by the rules. Giving them any less is risking them not acting on their antag round and being a waste of threat. (Or creating headaches for admins and players alike. Just like what happened to me.)

wait till you realize admins expect you to use non lethals on a hulk, or killbait people so you follow normal escalation to get what you require

and there is nothing to fear from them, a thief points a gun at my head demanding a high risk item, they can't kill you, and if you shove, and disarm them of their non lethal weaponry, congrats they are effectively cuffed, because now you are protected by the rules, and they can't punch you to death because follow normal escalation

[Nabski]

If I roll thief I just ignore it about 75% of the time unless some part of the objective just falls into my lap. The example I'm thinking of is "I managed to shove the captain onto a glass table to steal his ID".

I've started treating thief as a more entertaining bit for the ACTUAL hard objective. Getting the fucking shuttle called on bagil. Getting the item/hoard/anything but organs/corpses isn't too hard. Trying to convince people it's time to fucking leave we have been here two-three hours LETS GO is infuriating.

But yeah the escalation bit is ???? hard sometimes.

[Itseasytosee2me]

I turned thief off, because I got it way too often. It's not as fun as my initial impression. Chronicler and organ thief are the best, the rest are pretty underwhelming.

[Pandarsenic]

ID Thief is basically Killbait: the MiniAntag

Since ID theft is the literal specific example of "A thing that makes you valid to kill" and you want to live, and all that