delete thieves

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massa
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:20 am
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delete thieves

Post by massa » #631843

first of all, gambler's fallacy is not a fallacy and every thief roll is a wasted roll for a real antag (for you, yes, YOU, the player)

second of all, thieves represent a well that will never end, and its refreshing waters are the antags that were never rolled because thief hogs threat and ANYTHING buying threat decreases the chance of other antags in general. while intending to give people something to do, in a sort of, antag-lite way, all that ends up happening is one robust person steals every gun from armory or nothing happens.

cult, benos, revs and nukies are feeling rarer since thieves dropped. WAY rarer. antags drive this game and i'm seeing too many rounds across terry and sybil that are an hour of literally fucking nothing happening at all, over and over again because there are NO antags.
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Armhulen
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Re: delete thieves

Post by Armhulen » #631845

alright FIRST OFF we have a thief feedback thread but whatever. anyways these are complaints with dynamic not thief, we can do any number of tweaks to dynamic to make it still roll thieves when appropriate without it feeling "used up"
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Rohen_Tahir
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Re: delete thieves

Post by Rohen_Tahir » #631846

massa wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:46 am first of all, gambler's fallacy is not a fallacy and every thief roll is a wasted roll for a real antag (for you, yes, YOU, the player)
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massa
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Re: delete thieves

Post by massa » #631880

Armhulen wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:57 am alright FIRST OFF we have a thief feedback thread but whatever. anyways these are complaints with dynamic not thief, we can do any number of tweaks to dynamic to make it still roll thieves when appropriate without it feeling "used up"
i mean i just want thieves to have 0 impact on the antag rolling in general because the rounds have been coma inducing for weeks, thieves themselves are fine

apparently you can't just "make them 0 threat bro" which i'm sure some fucky wucky coder math doesn't allow for it, but there has to be an elegant solution, but that doesn't mean that that isn't the solution. make them roll for imaginary threat or something, some sort of fake buffer calculated and budgeted out of the normal threat but rolling thieves out of it doesn't cost anything. yeah i know how to code and yeah i'm kinda poggers.
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sinfulbliss
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Re: delete thieves

Post by sinfulbliss » #631881

The issue is your average assistant will add the same threat to the round as thieves would, I suppose they would only take 1-3 batons instead of 6 but in practice I've not found a difference between them. They really shouldn't take up threat, I agree with massa that it does seem rounds with thieves are quieter and less chaotic because they take up threat slots that other threats would have filled (and likely made a bigger impact with).
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Pandarsenic
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Re: delete thieves

Post by Pandarsenic » #631884

sinfulbliss wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:52 pm The issue is your average assistant will add the same threat to the round as thieves would, I suppose they would only take 1-3 batons instead of 6 but in practice I've not found a difference between them. They really shouldn't take up threat, I agree with massa that it does seem rounds with thieves are quieter and less chaotic because they take up threat slots that other threats would have filled (and likely made a bigger impact with).
This is 100% true and equally damning to both Dynamic's tuning of Thief threat value and the state of the Tide
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iain0
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Re: delete thieves

Post by iain0 » #631889

It got zero responses but viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31110 was the same thinking about the "lost opportunity" of antags, but without the "purge they" approach.
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Shadowflame909
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Re: delete thieves

Post by Shadowflame909 » #631894

should just make it a high triggering event. like a better obsessed (no threat taken!)

(didnt armhulenn make that too? sussy)
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Armhulen
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Re: delete thieves

Post by Armhulen » #631897

Dynamic changes to thief just got changed so they can't take up that much threat, let's see how it goes
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Mothblocks
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Re: delete thieves

Post by Mothblocks » #631898

cult, benos, revs and nukies are feeling rarer since thieves dropped. WAY rarer.
Something I need to get to at some point as part of the Dynamic 2022 package is splitting rulesets into their own buckets so that adding new antagonists doesn't drop the weight of everyone else. Was musing on the best splits of that yesterday, but ideally things like nuke/cult/revs are their own bucket, meaning that no matter what minorish antagonists are added, their pickrate won't drop unless an equivalent ruleset is added.
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BrianBackslide
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Re: delete thieves

Post by BrianBackslide » #631902

Does that mean we're going full circle back to gamemodes?
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Mothblocks
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Re: delete thieves

Post by Mothblocks » #631903

No?
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!

Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.

Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
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