/tg/Station 13

Respawning as spider is currently only limited by the amount of eggs available. If the spiders responsible for creating eggs are on their game, then the supply almost never runs out and dead spiders can respawn almost immediately. This leads to spiders easily overrunning the station. I suggest putting a cooldown on spider respawns, so after dying they can't respawn immediately. I have never had a good round with spiders and they feel incredibly cheap if you aren't eager to join the bandwagon and stomp the station.

I agree

spiders get rekt by low atmos and they dont get space suits to save them.

Just get the engineers on their game, and it's goodbyes.

If you got too many spiders, maybe stop trying to melee them and start bringing out the big guns to a defensible position.

man brings up sane and articulated point about a possible flaw in antag mechanic
CODER agrees, PLAYERS tell him skill issue??

what timeline is this

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:48 pm man brings up sane and articulated point about a possible flaw in antag mechanic
CODER agrees, PLAYERS tell him skill issue??

what timeline is this

It's a nerf so coders automatically love it

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:31 pm spiders get rekt by low atmos and they dont get space suits to save them.

Just get the engineers on their game, and it's goodbyes.

Spiders were given the ability to seal breaches and take less damage from atmos issues.

I disagree.
This is a nail that sticks out hammered down response.
The ideal solution would be one that further integrates spiders into the game, rather then punishing them in this way.
Here are a few ideas.
•Make spiders more vulnerable to atmos. I.E. If over 50% of the air is Carbon, spiders suffocate, but so long as there is enough oxygen humans do not. An atmos tech being able to use atmos to target the arachnid threat would be great, and ideally there would be a counterplay of webbing up vents to prevent atmos changes.
•Make spiders more vulnerable to disease. Allow virologists to make a disease that can infect humans with no symptoms, but if it jumps species to Spiders, they're in real trouble.
•Allow robotics to make Minebots ala mining, that can patrol the station and target hostile wildlife. These would not just target spiders, but cult constructs, zombies, maybe nuclear operatives and ascended cultists depending on balancing concerns.

Revert any buffs against taking any atmos damage and maybe have other gasses effect them, like having bz prevents eggs from hatching?

Helios wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:07 am •Make spiders more vulnerable to disease. Allow virologists to make a disease that can infect humans with no symptoms, but if it jumps species to Spiders, they're in real trouble.

This is actually a really great idea. "Kill the alien monsters with a virus" is very much a sci-fi solution to a sci-fi problem. With respect to spiders, it's got a logical progression too: Risk life to get a blood sample (living or dead?), tinker with it in the lab without getting killed, and somehow infect the nest.

I am wholly against adding any content to virology. Fuck virology.

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:31 am Revert any buffs against taking any atmos damage and maybe have other gasses effect them, like having bz prevents eggs from hatching?

We have to keep playing this stupid neverending tug of war where spiders get nerfed just for them to get rebuffed by their creator.

delete spiders

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:28 am delete spiders

Lets delete all antags we don't like until this is a peaceful space simulation game where we all farm weed and sing songs together.

Spiders are fine, just stop dying. What point is there to have a threat to the station if it doesn't have any teeth?

Stop acting like you're the protagonist of the station. Sometimes you die and that's that.

waiting for the collective playbase to realize that opening the can of bz in xenobio near them obliterates eggs and webs with no counterplay

I'll admit spiders are a little bland right now. My idea was to make them weak to fly swatters and put them in the lathe, along with making them take severe damage from pesticide. This ideally would let everyone be able to defend themselves from the spiders and add more ways for the common person to fight back, and that would keep things chugging until I got time to take another look at them.

Also, spiders didn't get their atmos damage nerfed. I buffed burn damage against them by 25% and reduced atmos damage to compensate, it still does the same amount of damage when the calculation is said and done. Carsh is a schizo about this stuff for some reason and he generally accuses me of shit I never did. I don't know why.

However, I wouldn't mind a respawn timer being added either.

The problem is spider players using multiple lives and metaknowledge to overrun their opponents who have one life and can't ghost. Certain spiders only require one bite to end your round with time and that bite can be hard to avoid when fighting other spiders. A delay between respawns gives people time to recover from the constant onslaught of spiders being played by comparatively fewer players. Limited counterplay existing doesn't solve this problem.

cacogen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:18 am The problem is spider players using multiple lives and metaknowledge to overrun their opponents who have one life and can't ghost. Certain spiders only require one bite to end your round with time and that bite can be hard to avoid when fighting other spiders. A delay between respawns gives people time to recover from the constant onslaught of spiders being played by comparatively fewer players. Limited counterplay existing doesn't solve this problem.

Unlike most ghost roles, I don't think that metaknowledge gained over multiple lives is a huge problem for a "horde" antag. They're meant to swarm, and if not opposed, overwhelm.

Maybe it's just me, but I think a swarm of evil space spiders is more in spirit with the antag than one or two evil space spiders. If they're really that overpowered, make individual spiders a tad squishier; but I don't want spiders to become a beno clone but with no cool powers.

It should really work in waves, with a break in-between.

Farquaar wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:52 am
Unlike most ghost roles, I don't think that metaknowledge gained over multiple lives is a huge problem for a "horde" antag. They're meant to swarm, and if not opposed, overwhelm.

In one Round on delta, a single spider headed straight to the cult base near atmos and started wrecking it
No one had known about the Base before
Cult lost because of that

In another round, multiple spiders headed straight to the Icebox Science Circuit room and ate through the heavy firelocks ... the borg factory was there
And it got destroyed

And a third,
Station was overrun , cap got nuke codes and was in the vault
Spiders broke into the vault even though no one should have know they were there

Metagaming is huge with swarm antags

edit:
yes, i know, admin issue
but these are only the ones i have seen myself and you cant really prove alot of instances of using metaknowledge, if you werent watching em already and were not playing

Carp spawnrate got nerfed before
Dragging stuff as Spiders and Carp was nerfed too
We are still missing a nerf on spider spawnrate

All because metagamers cant stop abusing ghost roles

We still have rule 2

Likteer wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:58 pm Bez tytułu.png

Ah yes, nothing in the game is ever broken because rule 10. Yet in spite of that things are broken and do get nerfed. Like PDA bombs. Rule 10 eh.

i wouldnt shed a tear if spiders were simply removed

thomanthewise5404 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:29 pm i wouldnt shed a tear if spiders were simply removed

i enjoy being a spider and spiders give the crew something to wage war with

iprice wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:08 pm
Like PDA bombs.

Decide wherever we talk about former roundstart "woosh, no limbs no id, day ruined button"; or a midround threat which is:

• decimated effortlessly early on

• dies to: lack of oxygen, not-so-extreme atmos, beartraps, flyswatters, mining weaponry...

• strengthens from neglect

Please stop defanging threats. Even as a degenerate MRP exclusive player, I rather like threats to be an actual threat.

Agreed

If you dont fear death, or going out guns blazing. Then this isn't SS13. Just byond chatroom!

Spiders always ends up as either a complete non issue because it got caught too early or a byond chatroom as everyone gets mobbed and waits patiently in deadchat. Never have I seen spiders turn into a group of survivors fighting from behind sandbags or anything similar, just endless high damage difficult to heal from monsters eating everyone

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:12 pmjust endless high damage difficult to heal from monsters eating everyone

So why not choose to reduce damage instead of reducing the spawnrate, if their damage is a major issue here?

Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:31 pm

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:12 pmjust endless high damage difficult to heal from monsters eating everyone

So why not choose to reduce damage instead of reducing the spawnrate, if their damage is a major issue here?

Good point! Spiders would probably be much more manageable if it wasnt such a death sentence to try and fight them for long periods of time. Poison is a ton more lethal now that charcoal isnt here to mend all toxin damage for free.

Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:31 pm

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:12 pmjust endless high damage difficult to heal from monsters eating everyone

So why not choose to reduce damage instead of reducing the spawnrate, if their damage is a major issue here?

I did that already.

I personally wouldn't mind if their poison was stripped. Both purple-eyed species should have some form of injection though, maybe something that causes strong hallucinations for vipers and something a bit tamer for purples.

spiders are fine and the only time they win is when a crew is already 70% fucked

spiders are simple trash that don't do impressive damage and mostly are played in zerg tactics and 2 guys with laser weaponry or 5 guys with some saws is all it takes

this is utterly a non-issue and 100% an ided thread