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The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:56 am
by Tupinambis
Every time a miner decides it would be a funny idea to bait megafauna/lavaland elites onto the shuttle, or a sentient elite camps the shuttle and waits for a miner to call it up, the entire round gets completely derailed. It has been happening with such frequency on Sybil that I am beyond sick and tired of it.
Megafauna and elites were balanced around very experienced mining players who have mastered their attack patterns, prepped heavily, have special mining gear (some of which is really only useful on lavaland), have made an arena, and are fighting in low pressure. As a consequence of that, megafauna are essentially impossible to kill once they got on station and can easily slaughter everyone, they simply have too much health, armor, and damage (with armor penetration) for anyone to have any chance of dealing with it, and none of the usual cheese suspects for super dangerous threats like mechs, chems, or bombs, put so much of a dent in them. That's not even accounting for the fact megafauna can often regenerate health.
Megafauna and elites are a bigger threat than any antag spawn that exists, yet they are a consistent potential threat every round whether it's a traitor miner baiting it, or a miner that lost to a sentient elite dooming the station on accident.
For my own thoughts, I think lavaland monsters are just generally too strong, and need a nerf across the board, but at the very least something needs to be done about them being on the station and derailing rounds.
Maybe lower their health and damage when they leave the z-level, cause them to constantly lose health, give them negative armor, if not just a flat out nerf? Not sure on the exact solution but it's a big problem.
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:11 am
by blackdav123
I think it would be fine if it happened less frequently but I do agree that one goober miner getting owned by a herald and now the crew gets to enjoy not having windows for the rest of the shift sucks super hard.
Maybe make it more expensive to summon sentient versions of the minibosses? With the current legion core requirement you can speedrun the bosses and get owned by them within a few minutes, long before you'd have the gear you need to fight them.
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:47 am
by Striders13
when was the last time you saw megafauna on station? Cause the last time I did was 2 months ago and it was me baiting bubblegum as traitor (and dying to it). Like 4 months ago someone brought drake unto station and it got absolutely slaughtered by crew.
It's a non-issue to have a traitor miner end the round with megafauna once in a blue moon. As for the elites, I feel they deserve to have fun on station for waiting on mining shuttle for 30 minutes before some idiot recalls it, and they already have halved health with no way to heal when they go up to station.
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:54 am
by TheFinalPotato
if people do it constantly ban them. if there's an easy way to cheese it to do it constantly let us know and we'll fix it.
Moth might disagree but that's my opinion. I think it's a cool setpiece if it's rare, but grating if it's not, and would rather it be admins who moderate that line then us, at least in the total binary extremes.
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:07 am
by Armhulen
TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:54 am
if people do it constantly ban them. if there's an easy way to cheese it to do it constantly let us know and we'll fix it.
Moth might disagree but that's my opinion. I think it's a cool setpiece if it's rare, but grating if it's not, and would rather it be admins who moderate that line then us, at least in the total binary extremes.
I def think the problem is on elites here. To get a megafauna on the station, it's a pain in the ass and you MOST LIKELY DIE unless some exploit is going on. To get an elite on the station you just die to it, it wobbles on over to the shuttle and someone calls the shuttle without knowing. One of these is way, way easier
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:44 am
by sinfulbliss
Striders13 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:47 am
when was the last time you saw megafauna on station? Cause the last time I did was 2 months ago and it was me baiting bubblegum as traitor (and dying to it). Like 4 months ago someone brought drake unto station and it got absolutely slaughtered by crew.
I believe they made the thread because today there were three rounds over the course of several hours where elites got lured onto the station. Megafauna are super rare you're right, but sentient elites are much more common. Herald and Legionnaire are the worst, particularly Legionnaire because it's essentially unkillable due to the bonfire heal ability with a player that knows how to use it.
These are probably common enough to warrant some sort of on-station nerf, like preventing the Legionnaire from using the bonfire ability on the station (so no healing).
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:46 am
by Mothblocks
I agree with Lemon and don't have much interest in it
Admins should feel encouraged to tell people to knock off gimmicks when it's getting too bad for the server
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:10 pm
by Capsandi
They're one of the last threats which result in players saying "RUN!" when they see them instead of "Lets try to kill it", and their slow speed facilitates this reaction. With most other threats its "Lets try to kill this space ninja on the off chance they're unrobust(for gamerloot)". Best to let the admins handle it.
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:58 pm
by Shadowflame909
Capsandi wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:10 pm
They're one of the last threats which result in players saying "RUN!" when they see them instead of "Lets try to kill it", and their slow speed facilitates this reaction. With most other threats its "Lets try to kill this space ninja on the off chance they're unrobust(for gamerloot)". Best to let the admins handle it.
This. It's like trying to remove the singulo.
I wouldn't mind megafauna losing their laser protection though.
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:10 am
by oranges
Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:58 pm
Capsandi wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:10 pm
They're one of the last threats which result in players saying "RUN!" when they see them instead of "Lets try to kill it", and their slow speed facilitates this reaction. With most other threats its "Lets try to kill this space ninja on the off chance they're unrobust(for gamerloot)". Best to let the admins handle it.
This. It's like trying to remove the singulo.
weird choice of point to make
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:27 am
by Shadowflame909
oranges wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:10 am
Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:58 pm
Capsandi wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:10 pm
They're one of the last threats which result in players saying "RUN!" when they see them instead of "Lets try to kill it", and their slow speed facilitates this reaction. With most other threats its "Lets try to kill this space ninja on the off chance they're unrobust(for gamerloot)". Best to let the admins handle it.
This. It's like trying to remove the singulo.
weird choice of point to make
Just made this because of this comment
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:31 am
by Indie-ana Jones
As I see it, a miner screwing up and hurting everyone else with a sentient elite is the same kind of thing as an engineer fucking up the supermatter on accident. If one job is allowed to fail and hurt everyone as a result, it is sort of silly to get mad at a different job for the same thing.
That being said however, I was considering a change to how sentient elites function and taking the trigger out of the player's hand and making it perhaps an event Dynamic could run. Essentially, command would receive a report that there's unusual readings coming from the planet and to send the miners to investigate. This event would make one of the tumors on lavaland enter a special state with a new GPS signal, which if activated will perform the sentient elite fight as it exists now. Failing the fight would then launch the elite up to the station level, perhaps flavored with the elite crashing onto the station inside a meteor, where the events we come to expect occur. If nobody handles the special tumor for some time, it will also launch a sentient elite onto the station level, meaning the miners would be expected to handle the situation in some way or another. We could also prevent the event from being chosen if there isn't a miner to tackle the problem if need be.
So, pretty much what this would do is replace the miner's reason to fight the elite, where it changes from personal glory to a selfless protect the station goal. This might make the whole thing feel better to players who end up getting hunted down by elites when they get on board because they know it wasn't some dumb miner who caused this to happen, while also exchanging hands for the cause of the event from an individual miner to Dynamic, which we trust to control the pace of the round. These changes would also probably be coupled with some balance of course, like legionnaire's bonfire trick getting patched out. Let me know what you guys think.
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:59 am
by Shadowflame909
That would be cool
It'd be cool if more OP dynamic events were to occur the longer the round occured. If a station has survived for more then 1 hour and 30 minutes intact, then a megafauna appearing on station should do some damage before they cheese it with their durand missiles as well.
Re: The Megafauna getting on station problem has gotten out of hand.
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:58 am
by Imitates-The-Lizards
Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:31 am
As I see it, a miner screwing up and hurting everyone else with a sentient elite is the same kind of thing as an engineer fucking up the supermatter on accident. If one job is allowed to fail and hurt everyone as a result, it is sort of silly to get mad at a different job for the same thing.
That being said however, I was considering a change to how sentient elites function and taking the trigger out of the player's hand and making it perhaps an event Dynamic could run. Essentially, command would receive a report that there's unusual readings coming from the planet and to send the miners to investigate. This event would make one of the tumors on lavaland enter a special state with a new GPS signal, which if activated will perform the sentient elite fight as it exists now. Failing the fight would then launch the elite up to the station level, perhaps flavored with the elite crashing onto the station inside a meteor, where the events we come to expect occur. If nobody handles the special tumor for some time, it will also launch a sentient elite onto the station level, meaning the miners would be expected to handle the situation in some way or another. We could also prevent the event from being chosen if there isn't a miner to tackle the problem if need be.
So, pretty much what this would do is replace the miner's reason to fight the elite, where it changes from personal glory to a selfless protect the station goal. This might make the whole thing feel better to players who end up getting hunted down by elites when they get on board because they know it wasn't some dumb miner who caused this to happen, while also exchanging hands for the cause of the event from an individual miner to Dynamic, which we trust to control the pace of the round. These changes would also probably be coupled with some balance of course, like legionnaire's bonfire trick getting patched out. Let me know what you guys think.
If this is a 1-2% chance station trait, like the xeno egg, and it has a check that there is at least one roundstart shaft miner, I would love this actually.