/tg/Station 13

So, I've recently noticed that with the exception of the work that Paprika did on ERTs, Deathsquads have remained mostly unchanged since before I even started playing this game.
This isn't a bad thing per-sé, but I feel that their age is showing, and they could use a little sprucing up to make them more relevant and effective.
I'll consider any suggestions for either Deathsquads or ERTs, but bear in mind things like "Give ERTs magic" will only make them less likely to be spawned.

So far, Steelpoint and Lumipharon have pointed out that Deathsquad Pulse Rifles now only have 40 rounds, which may be a little lacking for a Deathsquad trooper's needs. (I'd like additional input on this point as well. What do you think is a fair amount of ammo for a full size pulse rifle?)
I've also considered removing the Deathsquad's medkits in favour of combat injectors, since when you're in the heat of combat, a medkit really does not cut it.

Deathsquad needs to be the omega.
It needs to be so ridiculously overpowered, an unstoppable force that takes 10 men to take down 1 trooper.

Power armour.

Bluespace wrote:Deathsquad needs to be the omega.
It needs to be so ridiculously overpowered, an unstoppable force that takes 10 men to take down 1 trooper.

This.
Opposed to a greyshit getting lucky with a disarm or stunprod+cable cuffs.

well we have nodrop implants now we may as well use them for the deathsquads

also, the pulse rifles really should be just infinite ammo, I mean, if you're at the stage where you've pressed a button for a deathsquad, you may as well give them weapons that don't run out of juice.

Allohsnackbar wrote:

Bluespace wrote:Deathsquad needs to be the omega.
It needs to be so ridiculously overpowered, an unstoppable force that takes 10 men to take down 1 trooper.

This.
Opposed to a greyshit getting lucky with a disarm or stunprod+cable cuffs.

A clown being able to take down a highly trained coporate spec ops guy is half the charm of this game for me. Everyone is on more or less equal footing.

What's wrong with an assistant being a hero? If the deathquad cant stop a guy running up to them with a prod when they're all armed with pulse rifles why shouldnt they die?

If you're just going to make them invincible and everyone to die no matter what then save everyone 10 minutes and use the nuke code instead. It won't be any fun for the crew if invincible guys with infinite ammo just murder everyone.

imblyings wrote:well we have nodrop implants now we may as well use them for the deathsquads

This is exactly the sort of idea I was hoping for. I'll definitely have to look into the implants to see what sort of crazy stuff I can do with that.

imblyings wrote:also, the pulse rifles really should be just infinite ammo

I'm curious to know if anyone disagrees with this because I think it would be easier to add than giving them x amount of shots.

Remie Richards wrote:Power armour.

Sure, I'll use the new ninja code, once you're done with it.

Kor wrote:

Allohsnackbar wrote:

Bluespace wrote:Deathsquad needs to be the omega.

This. Opposed to a greyshit getting lucky with a disarm or stunprod+cable cuffs.

What's wrong with an assistant being a hero?

Now this is something I wasn't expecting, but it's a pretty serious discussion to be had if we're ever going to make any further changes to the Deathsquad.

What should the Deathsquad be? I've always wanted them to be a surgically precise military force that can be sent in for almost any purpose, with enough powerful tools at their disposal to guarantee success.
...In reality, I see them being more used to destroy absolutely everything and everyone.

The name 'deathsquad' doesn't really suggest anything other than 'kill everyone'.

Deathsquad aren't intended to be stopped. They are a round ending event for when the station situation has grown too severe to warrant evacuation.

Scones wrote:Deathsquad aren't intended to be stopped. They are a round ending event for when the station situation has grown too severe to warrant evacuation.

Then do this:
- Give them bowman headsets, as they have a vulnerability to flashbangs, currently.
- Make their energy and laser resists 80 as the rest are. (They may not always be using the shield!)
- Give them the NODROP implant.

This will ensure that only truly terrible Deathsquad players can be easily stopped.

The squad should probably have CNS rebooter implants if they're going to have Nodrop implants, since the two have the same research requirements and mineral costs. Good in both "make em' fucking scary" and "make them fluff consistent" standpoint.

Make them augged up the ass. Makes sense, makes them less human which is kind of neat for fluffs, creepiness and silicons and makes them strong but not untouchable.

Stickymayhem wrote:Make them augged up the ass. Makes sense, makes them less human which is kind of neat for fluffs, creepiness and silicons and makes them strong but not untouchable.

This, but like 33% per limb, so that you get random sown together rag tag Death squaddies, like the veterans of battles that *barely* survived, with only a lust for blood remaining.

Gun Hog wrote: Then do this:
- Give them bowman headsets, as they have a vulnerability to flashbangs, currently.

It was giving them bowmans that sparked my interest in this topic, actually.

Remie Richards wrote:

Stickymayhem wrote:Make them augged up the ass. Makes sense, makes them less human which is kind of neat for fluffs, creepiness and silicons and makes them strong but not untouchable.

This, but like 33% per limb, so that you get random sown together rag tag Death squaddies, like the veterans of battles that *barely* survived, with only a lust for blood remaining.

I love it. I think some sort of make_augmented proc would compliment this so that admin events could benefit from that level of detail too.

Scones wrote:Deathsquad aren't intended to be stopped. They are a round ending event for when the station situation has grown too severe to warrant evacuation.

Then just go for the aforementioned nuke. It's no fun for anyone but the ~5 deathsquad members who go around waving their murderboners if you can't even fight back. There's no "counterplay" or whatever the hell it's called if you just sit around waiting to die against the unstunnable guys with infinite ammo.

Plus the best parts of SS13 come out when things that aren't intended happen. I've said I view SS13 from a /tg/ pen and paper standpoint, and if there is one thing /tg/ taught me to hate, it's railroading and unkillable DMPCs.

By all means buff their pulse rifles back to 200 rounds, but please don't make them too tanky.

don't give them augs or implants, otherwise some heuheuh ling/traitor with an emp flash light/guy with an ion rifle will utterly ass fuck them.

Just give them back their fuckhuge ammo count so they're not reduced to e-swording things after 60 seconds, and actually give them the death squad mech (maraurder) to use some times.
Hell, when shit's REALLY hit the fan, send it full deathsquad MECH TEAM, seraph for the leader, marauders for the rest, all with pulse cannons and other nasty rape shit.

Death squad is for assblasting everything, ERT is for when you don't want to assblast everything.

Deathsquid if you want them to be purely for completely ass blastery, give them all the Hulk's no-knockdown mutations and magnetic-combat gloves with admin spawn firing pins. Bam they can't be disarmed,knocked down or their own weapons turning against them.

Hell send in the Sith Deathsquad. All them with TK and Xray vision, noslips, and their choice of e-swords and energy shield.

ClownSquad with marauders armred with honker 5000s and squeaky sound effects.

Hell lets have gimmick DeathSquads for fun really:
A literal DeathSquid - Squid Squad
DeathClown - Clowns armed with Repeating Honk Rifles and The Honker Mother brand mech
The Inquisition - A cadre of red robed Spanish Monks armed to the teeth, no centcom notification of being sent.
Sith Extermination Squad - Deathsquad that has TK and Xray mutations, armed with armored robes, combat boots and gloves, and their choice of e-sword or energy shield.

Give them more toys
One idea I had was an alternative set of armor they could go with, specifically a lightly armored exoskeleton. The protection it would provide would be laughable compared to the death squad armor but would let the officer move faster, quick choke people (grabs would immediately go into the kill state), pick up heavy objects like lockers and crates and throw them at people for serious damage or beat unrobust dim wits with them for even more damage as well as an instant knockdown, and pry open airlocks. Show how fucking robust you are by strangling a poor limp dick cock eyed assistant with one hand while smashing the clown's stupid ass face in with a locker with your other hand.

if someone is forewarned and prepared enough to have EMP kit for disabling deathsquads and actually pull it off, they deserve the kills

also while Kor has a point, everyone else arguing that they should be round enders have a point as well. That being said, why not have deathsquads as they are now (except with buffed ammo counts) and another type of deathsquad buffed with implants etc? Admins could use the former when a round-ender isn't needed but the station still needs a formidable ally/enemy and admins could use the latter when they just want the round ended fast but don't want to resort to a nuke. You could just simply fluff it as deathsquads and elite deathsquads.

it's what the deathsquad mechs are for

Suggested deathsquad kit:
-jumpsuit
-backpack
-Dicksquad armor
-Dicksquad hat
-Centcomm bowman
-SWAT mask
-Combatgloves
-SWAT boots/noslips/noslip jackboots
-Pulse gun
-Mateba
-esword
-eshield
-2 bricks of c4
-Thermals
-Stun implant/adrenal implant
-NODROP implant
-Explosive implant
-Badass names
-License to kill (actual piece of paper saying 'KILL THEM ALL')
-Nuke codes.

if someone is forewarned and prepared enough to have EMP kit for disabling deathsquads and actually pull it off, they deserve the kills

Maybe, but EMP stuff is more 'niche' than 'endgame': the problem isn't the difficulty of making it but the fact it's not normal to make.

If EMPs were a hard counter to deathsquads, pretty much unblockable by and exceptionally dangerous to them, I'm not sure it would be nearly as uncommon.

Who cares, they're never used, it's like arguing over a 1906 jalopy car that no one drives.

Giving deathsquids nodrop and antistun just sounds terribly unfun, you might as well replace the deathsquad button with a 'kill all players' button at that point because it's a foregone conclusion that they'll win. All the fun from deathsquads comes from when some clown slips them and single-handedly saves the station.

oranges wrote:Who cares, they're never used, it's like arguing over a 1906 jalopy car that no one drives.

I think if properly thought about and updated, deathsquads could see more use.

Cheimon wrote:

oranges wrote:Who cares, they're never used, it's like arguing over a 1906 jalopy car that no one drives.

I think if properly thought about and updated, deathsquads could see more use.

Their use is something that inherently means they shouldn't come up very much.

I dunno about that, I think some rounds will always drag on too long and more frequent use of an updated deathsquad might be a good way to fix that.

I think what some people are asking is for a special antagonist that are essentially the Deathsquad, but have a IC reason to not only want to attack the station but be overwhelmingly powerful enough to do so, but they are not Aliens or Nuke Ops.

I mean, I can see why. It makes more sense than just sending in the DS for no reason.

E: But also the reason why it should be unique is that the admins are sending them in to end the round, not like Ops where anyone can win.

Pulse rifles only have 40 shots?
Revert that, its dumb.

Give them bowmans then they're strong enough for a round ender.

It was buffed to 80 but I'm probely either going to buff it to 200 or just give them the infinite ammo Pulse Destroyers.

Energy shield was already great buff for them. If DS is not robust it deserves to loose as every other special role.

Steelpoint wrote:It was buffed to 80 but I'm probely either going to buff it to 200 or just give them the infinite ammo Pulse Destroyers.

If you go for the infinite ammo option, I highly recommend that you make it a child type of the loyalty pinned rifle, so that I can be lazy when it comes to spawning items in.
It's what I had planned to do originally.

So yeah, I didn't bother with wrestling with the augmentation code, and I forgot the combat injectors... To add to that, I'm waiting until Remie finishes ninja so that I can try making some power armour.

Also, if anyone sees a Deathsquad called now, I'd really like to know how 80 shots works out. Is it enough? Is it too much? Do they need even MORE? Etc, etc.