Add back CONTRACTORS

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sinfulbliss
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Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by sinfulbliss » #657711

Contractors were by far one of the most fun traitor kits to play with. There was so much love and detail in it it's a real shame to see it go. The special contractor tablet, with its cool startup sound, the special interface and accepting contracts like a professional kidnapper. The unique contractor box that fit all you needed - your special yellow and black contractor spacesuit, chameleon jumpsuit for stealth, special telescopic contractor baton for easy abductions with its own special sound, and three random items.

It was high risk high reward, and the TC rewards reflected the difficulty of both the target and dropoff locations. There was a sort of "rep" system too, which allowed rerolls or even reinforcements to be summoned, which was a fun way to get ghostroles involved. Despite all this it was never accused of being OP or broken, and most of the time contractors got owned - but it was thematic and fun.

It would be really cool to see contractors reintegrated with prog tot somehow. I.e. buying the kit could immediately lock your uplink and freeze your ability to do objectives, replacing it with the contractor tablet.
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Agux909
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by Agux909 » #657714

Why were contractors removed again?
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oranges
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by oranges » #657732

Contractors core idea was implemented in progressive traitor.

Artistic/style/nostalgia arguments put aside there is LITERALLY no reason to add it back because you can already achieve the exact same game loop of complete kidnapping, get stuff in the standard traitor game.

You woudl be better of pursuing armhuleen's rough concept of having the ability to pick your syndicate faction and it theming your gear and missions.

if you take off your nostalgia goggles you would clearly see that.
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sinfulbliss
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by sinfulbliss » #657747

oranges wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:21 am Contractors core idea was implemented in progressive traitor [...]

Artistic/style/nostalgia arguments put aside [...]
Contractor was built around and designed for kidnapping. Everything in their kit was for this purpose, that's why it costed 20 TC and why the contracts awarded upwards of 10 TC for a single one. Prog tot just slapped kidnapping objectives into the panel. The core idea is implemented but that implementation isn't nearly as good as contractor was. It's not unique and it doesn't add any special flavor to traitor like contractor did. It's just another objective in a hoard of objectives.
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Jacquerel
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by Jacquerel » #657787

Once the murder objective PR is merged I was thinking of adding an option in the uplink which replaces it with "do 4 kidnappings" which also ensures you always have a kidnap objective available but that's not exactly the same and there is no guarantee it'd be considered or merged.
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blackdav123
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by blackdav123 » #657808

Kits were a fun thing old traitors had and I dont think they were entirely incompatible with prog traitors. Each kit could have a custom task related to the kit you recieve, like the old darth sidious desword kit having an objective to cut both of a person's legs off or something.
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Super Aggro Crag
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #657949

Contractors were bad. Let me explain why.

I play on Manuel, the Medium RP server. Contractors would ask people to let them kidnap them. Then they'd get a bunch of crystals. They'd keep doing this.

I was playing a securityman. I saw an enemy of a station removing crew members from the station and then charging my employer a ransom for their return. I arrested them.

I was swarmed with people saying NOOOOO WE WERE WILLINGLY GOING WITH HIM HAHA HE'S JUST A VACATION ADVISOR.

I had people trying to break him out of brig. Do you know how I had to stop this situation?

I had to get the lawyer to go into their office and pull copies of all the "vacationer's" employee contract, stating that nanotrasen owned their souls in perpetuity. I brigged him for 5 minutes for embezzling company property and confiscated his tater tot gear. If he had stolen a paperclip i probably would have killed him.

"Friendly Antags" just results in people powergaming with their buddies until they get massive amounts of Fuck You Gear and absolutely donkroll the station and unfortunately since they aren't anime villain monologuing or silently murderboning you have to deal with people tiding to try and protect them. It's not fucking fun for the 3 people who are still playing security, and once they get their donkroll and fuck the station up everyone's going to be bitching in dead chat about it.
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Itseasytosee2me
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #657952

Super Aggro Crag wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:14 am Contractors were bad. Let me explain why.

I play on Manuel, the Medium RP server. Contractors would ask people to let them kidnap them. Then they'd get a bunch of crystals. They'd keep doing this.

I was playing a securityman. I saw an enemy of a station removing crew members from the station and then charging my employer a ransom for their return. I arrested them.

I was swarmed with people saying NOOOOO WE WERE WILLINGLY GOING WITH HIM HAHA HE'S JUST A VACATION ADVISOR.

I had people trying to break him out of brig. Do you know how I had to stop this situation?

I had to get the lawyer to go into their office and pull copies of all the "vacationer's" employee contract, stating that nanotrasen owned their souls in perpetuity. I brigged him for 5 minutes for embezzling company property and confiscated his tater tot gear. If he had stolen a paperclip i probably would have killed him.

"Friendly Antags" just results in people powergaming with their buddies until they get massive amounts of Fuck You Gear and absolutely donkroll the station and unfortunately since they aren't anime villain monologuing or silently murderboning you have to deal with people tiding to try and protect them. It's not fucking fun for the 3 people who are still playing security, and once they get their donkroll and fuck the station up everyone's going to be bitching in dead chat about it.
I've seen this on sybil as well. The problem still exists with progtot.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
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datorangebottle
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by datorangebottle » #657953

I feel like the biggest part of contractor that nobody's brought up yet is the contractor baton.
It was a concealable, repeatable stun on par with the telescopic baton, and I feel like it was a healthy part of the contractor's kit that made the entire thing work.
People who want to do kidnapping objectives as a traitor no longer have access to this vital tool, even as a stun that doesn't kill. This means they have to grab one of limited numbers of stun batons(get the one from beepsky, hope cargo doesn't send your order back, or don't bother) and deal with whatever nerfs have been dealt to that recently(heaven forbid we get bulky batons merged in some way). Or they deal with something that's vastly inferior for just smash-and-grab kidnapping, like the ebow(stun too short, potentially lethal) and sleepypen(limited duration, potentially lethal, easier to get away from/counter, much harder to reuse). Basically, contractor got ported to progtot but none of its supporting kit was added to the traitor's kit to help with the objective.
If we're going to have stun combat, the traitors ought to be able to have it as a good option without resorting to competing with validhunters for equipment or, god help us all, building a stun prod.

TL;DR: can we just get a moderately expensive kit that's the contractor's baton and some zipties, for an easier option for those kidnapping objectives?
Timberpoes wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:33 pm ImageAnother satisfied Timberpoes voter.Image
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
Chadley wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:00 am WENDEZ, cute, cute. I imagine the sleeper activation code when I hear it. That's pretty cool. qB). But I don't like that it doesn't line up to be anything obsurd like WEWLAD. 6/10

SUGMA, nevermind it makes sense now. fuckyou/10
kieth4 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:34 pm If it goes to appeals I will stand as the shield and protect this man's right to shit himself. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
sinfulbliss wrote: I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
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Jacquerel
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by Jacquerel » #657987

I was also thinking of adding that very thing, though i expect it to be controversial
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Itseasytosee2me
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #657992

Jacquerel wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:43 pm I was also thinking of adding that very thing, though i expect it to be controversial
Worth a shot man. Worse case scenario it get some discussion going.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by Mice World » #658008

datorangebottle wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:44 am I feel like the biggest part of contractor that nobody's brought up yet is the contractor baton.
It was a concealable, repeatable stun on par with the telescopic baton.
IIRC it can also stun borgs, making it better than the tele baton.
It keeps getting worse!?
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by Troxonater » #658049

datorangebottle wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:44 am I feel like the biggest part of contractor that nobody's brought up yet is the contractor baton.
It was a concealable, repeatable stun on par with the telescopic baton, and I feel like it was a healthy part of the contractor's kit that made the entire thing work.
People who want to do kidnapping objectives as a traitor no longer have access to this vital tool, even as a stun that doesn't kill. This means they have to grab one of limited numbers of stun batons(get the one from beepsky, hope cargo doesn't send your order back, or don't bother) and deal with whatever nerfs have been dealt to that recently(heaven forbid we get bulky batons merged in some way). Or they deal with something that's vastly inferior for just smash-and-grab kidnapping, like the ebow(stun too short, potentially lethal) and sleepypen(limited duration, potentially lethal, easier to get away from/counter, much harder to reuse). Basically, contractor got ported to progtot but none of its supporting kit was added to the traitor's kit to help with the objective.
If we're going to have stun combat, the traitors ought to be able to have it as a good option without resorting to competing with validhunters for equipment or, god help us all, building a stun prod.

TL;DR: can we just get a moderately expensive kit that's the contractor's baton and some zipties, for an easier option for those kidnapping objectives?
Having a kidnapping kit be available to purchase sounds cool. Unfortunately if you give prog traitors a good stun powergamers will just use it to murder more efficiantly. What if taking a kidnap objective game you a one time use baton meant to be used on the kidnapping target?
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by datorangebottle » #658054

Troxonater wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:19 am Having a kidnapping kit be available to purchase sounds cool. Unfortunately if you give prog traitors a good stun powergamers will just use it to murder more efficiantly. What if taking a kidnap objective game you a one time use baton meant to be used on the kidnapping target?
I'd honestly rather just remove the harmbaton mode from it entirely; if you can't use it directly to murder people, you have to swap between it and another weapon, making it way less efficient for that while keeping it as a great tool for kidnapping people.
Timberpoes wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:33 pm ImageAnother satisfied Timberpoes voter.Image
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
Chadley wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:00 am WENDEZ, cute, cute. I imagine the sleeper activation code when I hear it. That's pretty cool. qB). But I don't like that it doesn't line up to be anything obsurd like WEWLAD. 6/10

SUGMA, nevermind it makes sense now. fuckyou/10
kieth4 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:34 pm If it goes to appeals I will stand as the shield and protect this man's right to shit himself. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
sinfulbliss wrote: I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
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sinfulbliss
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by sinfulbliss » #658055

The contractor baton costed 20 TC.

That's not the best way to use your TC if your plan is to murderbone. Not by a long shot.
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by Farquaar » #658056

Itseasytosee2me wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:35 am
Super Aggro Crag wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:14 am "Friendly Antags" just results in people powergaming with their buddies until they get massive amounts of Fuck You Gear and absolutely donkroll the station and unfortunately since they aren't anime villain monologuing or silently murderboning you have to deal with people tiding to try and protect them. It's not fucking fun for the 3 people who are still playing security, and once they get their donkroll and fuck the station up everyone's going to be bitching in dead chat about it.
I've seen this on sybil as well. The problem still exists with progtot.
Cases like these remind me that friendly antags can be prevented when at least one of two things are present:
1. Validhunting security (tators must die, tator adapts/retaliates)
2. Murderboning villains (antags gotta kill crew, crew retaliates)
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oranges
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by oranges » #658077

sinfulbliss wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:40 am
oranges wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:21 am Contractors core idea was implemented in progressive traitor [...]

Artistic/style/nostalgia arguments put aside [...]
Contractor was built around and designed for kidnapping. Everything in their kit was for this purpose, that's why it costed 20 TC and why the contracts awarded upwards of 10 TC for a single one. Prog tot just slapped kidnapping objectives into the panel. The core idea is implemented but that implementation isn't nearly as good as contractor was. It's not unique and it doesn't add any special flavor to traitor like contractor did. It's just another objective in a hoard of objectives.
I've given you your options
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sinfulbliss
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Re: Add back CONTRACTORS

Post by sinfulbliss » #658093

oranges wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:03 pm I've given you your options
Alright so what about like a contractor faction you could join which rethemed your uplink into the contractor tablet, gave you the contractor box and set you loose?
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