/tg/Station 13

I have no idea why this is considered good design. limiting it to belts + armor is horrible. You are basically unable to carry a single gun unless you sacrifice your belt. Stealthy stealing a gun is made really hard so antags are once more forced into using their uplink/antag powers instead of using what they can find on the station. Guns should just be limited to 1-2 per bag by size.

Would be cool but would require a weight rework to do it well.

What is the rework? Bags have a weight limit and you can just set the weight of the gun right?

CPTANT wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:20 pm What is the rework? Bags have a weight limit and you can just set the weight of the gun right?

Guns are bulky, bags don't fit any bulky items, the weight limit on the bag is based on the weight of items inside. Weight is based on bulk. The size class is arbitrary.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:49 pm

CPTANT wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:20 pm What is the rework? Bags have a weight limit and you can just set the weight of the gun right?

Guns are bulky, bags don't fit any bulky items, the weight limit on the bag is based on the weight of items inside. Weight is based on bulk. The size class is arbitrary.

Wait, weight and bulk are combined? That IS a horrible system. Separating the 2 would solve so many inventory problems.

Yeah, it doesn’t really make sense. There’s probably a better way to prevent powergamers from stowing 10 guns in one bag that doesn’t prevent an honest freedom-loving American from concealed carrying

Surprised bags of holding are still rare as they are even after they haven't been affected by all these nerfs

Capsandi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:30 pm Surprised bags of holding are still rare as they are even after they haven't been affected by all these nerfs

Pretty sure they aren’t being used because everyone…
1. Hates toxins.
2. Is too lazy to get a core for it to work because anomalies are uncommon and annoying and there are multiple things you can do with it anyway (portal gun, mod suit, whatever).

I actually managed to make a few cores with just T2 thermo machines the other day. Just cooked a can of plasma, cooled a can of oxygen, and pumped the gases into some empty tanks.

Honestly, not that painful. If that's what's keeping players from doing it, that's kind of funny.

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:30 am I actually managed to make a few cores with just T2 thermo machines the other day. Just cooked a can of plasma, cooled a can of oxygen, and pumped the gases into some empty tanks.

Honestly, not that painful. If that's what's keeping players from doing it, that's kind of funny.

the average person has no idea what any of that means

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:30 am I actually managed to make a few cores with just T2 thermo machines the other day. Just cooked a can of plasma, cooled a can of oxygen, and pumped the gases into some empty tanks.

Honestly, not that painful. If that's what's keeping players from doing it, that's kind of funny.

Im hard filtered by the specific pipe setup and configuration needed to get these

All other jobs come pre-setup except for Toxins

Atmos coder moment... and toxin being balanced around being a secret moment.... (otherwise the station would blow up every shift at least two times)

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:07 am Im hard filtered by the specific pipe setup and configuration needed to get these

Don't psyche yourself out. I don't know shit about atmos, but this is easy. You don't have to be pumping out maxcaps for every anomaly. In fact, you are able to use relatively weak bombs. I can literally draw it on a napkin for you for what you need to do. Or the digital equivalent. Paint.
Just stick your desired gas canister in port 1. Heat/cool for a bit with your thermo (you might need to hit the board with a multitool to change its pipe layer, and you may need to wrench it around once built by screwdriving open the panel to have it connect to our pipe net). You'll want them to be T2 so they get nice and toasty/chilled. Obviously, heat plasma, cool oxygen.

Then, once the gas has been sufficiently tempered, using your pump of choice (use a volumetric), pump it into an empty canister in port 2.

Then, put some empty tanks into the canister, and fill it as normal. Put them on your ttv, put your ttv into the compressor with your raw anomaly, do implode thing, hey presto, that was at least a 4 dev bomb you probably just made. Good enough for the first few anomalies you want to make.

Edit: Oh, since it's maybe worth saying just in case. Please use two different setups of this same setup for plasma and oxygen. Don't try and filter the gases through the same net unless you're willing to completely scrub it clean using a waste to space. Pipe layers help a lot with this.

It's not going to change until inventory as a whole changes

Everyone ruined it for everyone

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:42 pm It's not going to change until inventory as a whole changes

Everyone ruined it for everyone

Give items a weight.

Give bags a weight limit.

I'm honestly really surprised this isn't how it already works.

bastardblaster wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:01 am

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:30 am I actually managed to make a few cores with just T2 thermo machines the other day. Just cooked a can of plasma, cooled a can of oxygen, and pumped the gases into some empty tanks.

Honestly, not that painful. If that's what's keeping players from doing it, that's kind of funny.

the average person has no idea what any of that means

you being a retard isn't something we design the game around

edit: I feel bad about this post sorry bstard blaster you did not deserve it, I was stressed from work.


what I meant to say in a nice way is that we don't design the game assuming that people can't pick up systems and learn them with some effort

CPTANT wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:58 pm

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:42 pm It's not going to change until inventory as a whole changes

Everyone ruined it for everyone

Give items a weight.

Give bags a weight limit.

I'm honestly really surprised this isn't how it already works.

inventory has been discussed to death and i think the only version i'm in favour of is grid inventories

We genuinely could do it, it'd just make things like the stash hotkey kinda a trap.
Edit: rotation would be kinda hard to do tho, not sure how you'd do that

oranges wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:44 am

CPTANT wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:58 pm

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:42 pm It's not going to change until inventory as a whole changes

Everyone ruined it for everyone

Give items a weight.

Give bags a weight limit.

I'm honestly really surprised this isn't how it already works.

inventory has been discussed to death and i think the only version i'm in favour of is grid inventories

What does inventory tetris add more than the abstraction of items having a weight/volume and a limit on those?

a visible fucking way to see what fits where without figuring out some random ass variables in the code?

I don't get this, you can just display item weight and container limits in the game. This is a system used by numerous games.

I like inventory tetris.

CM has something like inventory Tetris, although it is only across a single access, the design also allows for items to have many smaller pockets or one big one, perhaps even some combination of the two. This could be neat for holsters.
I think it would be great, but we should also add encumbrance.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:39 pm CM has something like inventory Tetris, although it is only across a single access, the design also allows for items to have many smaller pockets or one big one, perhaps even some combination of the two. This could be neat for holsters.
I think it would be great, but we should also add encumbrance.

I mean you can definitely do something like the old xcom had:




I wouldn't mind such a system at all, I just think weight based inventory is far easier to implement, as grid inventory also needs A LOT of spriting done for it. I doubt you can use stretched sprites for larger objects.

TGMC essentially has the same inventory system as us but each of their items in the bag has a width so you can visually see how much more you can fit. Might be worth a thought even though their system still has the same size system as us for other containers.

From what I remember when I last looked at inventory code, every item has a weight_class assigned (tiny, small, normal, bulky, huge, gigantic, in that order) and each weight_class has a value assigned. Every bag has a total combined value of items it can hold, the default value for bags is 21 and I think bags of holding are 35. Here's the kicker: on top of that maximum value, bags also have a maximum size category that is allowed to be inserted, I.E. most bags can only have WEIGHT_CLASS_NORMAL and smaller items inserted and bags of holding can fit WEIGHT_CLASS_GIGANTIC and smaller items inserted, even if a bag would have the space to fit a larger item inside (IE if you wanted to fit a laser gun in an empty backpack), it simply won't go in because the weight class is too big.

I tried checking github for what the exact values each weight class contributes to the total weight value, but I couldn't find it. The issue of not being able to hide guns at all in a bag can be resolved by adjusting the values each weight class contributes to the total storage capacity and allowing bags to fit anything if the bag has space for it (except other bags) so that you're able to sacrifice a meaningful amount of inventory space to hide certain items. Also, we have a Huge weight class but basically nothing uses it, and I think Gigantic is just used for mech parts. We can either rebalance items so the actually massive items like fireaxes would be Huge and, say, take up ~19 inventory points so you literally only have spare space for 2 Tiny items (like pills), and Bulky items might be 14 so you can only hide one lasergun while giving up more than 50% of your storage capacity, or we can add a Large weight class and have it serve as a bridgepoint between Normal and Bulky. But seriously, Huge and Gigantic are basically absent in the game.

Tarkov is another place we see something to by inspired by

Inventory tetris would be funny, inventory tetris with only one dimension (i think eris did something like that?) would be a streamlined representation of "weight" or "volume" or whatever.
Still, even for that you need to go through ALL THE ITMES and give each one a balanced and reasonable value, that's a lot of work.
And also also tools are still small sized, half the problem is the inventory and the other half are the items themselves and how with just a welder and a wrench (both fit into pockets) you can get basically anywhere barring high security areas

why not just give traitors the option buy a backpack that looks normal but can fit guns?

You know, only allowing one or two guns per bag might actually make sense ICly. We could frame it in different ways:

1. Backpacks and duffel bags have a specific number of "gun pockets". A gun pocket allows one to securely carry a firearm in their bag without risk of unintentional trigger pulls and the like. A typical bag might have one gun pocket, some bags might have zero, and some rare and/or specialized bags might have two or three. A gun pocket doesn't give a bag any extra space- if your bag is filled with donk pockets, you can't squish a laser gun into it unless you make room.

2. Instead of "pockets", you could also implement a chatbox message like "you can't stuff any more loaded firearms in this bag without risking an accidental discharge."

Of course, if you have an unloaded gun then you can fill up your bags as much as you like. What balance reasons are there to limit how many drained or unloaded guns a person can carry anyway? It's not like there's any combat advantage to carrying five drained laser guns on your person.

The number of times I rejected carrying a gun as CE because I cannot store it anywhere is absurd and sad.