Abduction [Gamemode]

Alex Crimson · Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:32 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

Remie Richards wrote:
Alex Crimson wrote:
Someone posted a redesign of the ship in OOC...

http://puu.sh/hdQpn/43d16d2631.png

Personally i think the Telepad should be in the operating room(as that is where the humans are teleported to).
The telepad should remain next to the teleporter console.
Since you can see when your agent is on the pad, instead of him having to say "Im on the pad" every single time.
You also see your marks the exact moment they pop on the ship.

Then put them both in the operating room? Or even in the middle fluff room. Then the far right room can be pure storage(which is really messy and probably not something the human should see. Gotaa maintain the creepy image and all).

Also the ability to resist out of the surgery table could do with fixing. The new baton that puts people to sleep should help stop it, but it would be nice if the problem itself were fixed.

Fayrik · Post by **Fayrik** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:53 pm #82329

peoplearestrange wrote:EDIT: Actually that be a terrible idea... would make reading logs a nightmare.

But languages don't effect the logs or observers, so this might actually be a useful solution.

Wikit · Post by **Wikit** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:31 pm #82332

After getting the chance to play abduction I want to lend support to the argument:

Alex Crimson wrote:From what i saw during the first playtest of the game mode...

Rather than stunning they should have a device that puts people to sleep. Fits more with the "alien abduction" theme.

Right now they need to steal IDs for access. Could instead give them some kind of super emag doorjack ID. Basically an all-access id that looks like an alien device.

I realize the update with sleepy cuff baton probably helps but for the love of

put a couple of tanks of n2o and a pile of breath masks on the ship or something so the aliens can keep their captives asleep while they operate on them. The scientist is wayyy to un-robust compared to his partner.

Alex Crimson wrote:
Give them some kind of energy cuffs that disappear when removed. Maybe a device that applies the cuffs, like those holosign projectors.

The stealth device doesnt copy clothes, so an agent still appears to have syndicate/alien gear when you examine them. Might want to change that somehow? Give them chameleon gear they can change at will?

Had no idea these were even issues, or if they still are a problem. Really like the energy cuff idea.

hanshansenhansson · Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:47 pm

How about having the Aliens breath an atmosphere of N2O. Makes them more xeno, is a bit fluffy, and saves the work of keeping people sedated on their shuttle.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:58 pm #82335

hanshansenhansson wrote:How about having the Aliens breath an atmosphere of N2O. Makes them more xeno, is a bit fluffy, and saves the work of keeping people sedated on their shuttle.

That's actually a really good idea. Means we don't have to worry about some clunky mechanics to keep people knocked out when we can just make the atmosphere on the ships full of N2O. Also further drives the "xeno" aspect.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:11 pm #82336

The best abduction I've been a part of so far is when I accidentally grabbed a dude who was braindead, and he actually 'came to' on the shuttle and freaked out with no idea why he was suddenly in this weird ass space ship.

The sleepy knockout method is a cool one.

Post by **AnturK** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:33 pm #82340

I'll see about the N2O breathing. That's a pretty cool idea.

Other stuff that were suggested that i probably gonna try to implement is the switch from instant area teleports to pinpoint ones with delay.
First a beam of light and after few seconds the alien.

Also something that seemed to come up pretty often is unclear wording with the abductee objectives. I was thinking of adding generic objective they would get in addition to the 'crazy' ones. Something like "Cause trouble on the station." I can't think of a wording that wouldn't force anything too specific though. Any ideas ?

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:03 pm #82351

The problem with making them breathe N2O is that the victim will never wake up on the ship. Its kinda pointless if they never get to have that moment where they wake up and freak out a little. Unless you change the sleep mechanics to give moments of clear vision.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:15 pm #82352

from an art viewpoint it's just silly looking to have little white particles dance around in an ayylien spaceship

Post by **AnturK** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:24 pm #82353

Oh yeah, that would be pretty annoying. Maybe some device that puts all non-aliens on the ship to sleep for short periods of time. So they would fade out and in of consciousness.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:32 pm #82354

also if there was an easy way to just keep people on the ship forever the ayliens could do ridiculous things like steal all of security.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:33 pm #82360

ships should be redesigned to look like old XCOM alien ships, imo. With some fluffy power units and stuff.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:37 pm #82361

Miauw wrote:ships should be redesigned to look like old XCOM alien ships, imo. With some fluffy power units and stuff.

Which ship exactly? Would not be too hard I guess.

Perhaps the 'Large Scout' would be a good design, iconic enough.

darkpaladin109 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:57 pm

Stickymayhem wrote:The best abduction I've been a part of so far is when I accidentally grabbed a dude who was braindead, and he actually 'came to' on the shuttle and freaked out with no idea why he was suddenly in this weird ass space ship.

That might've been me, since I had to go since I had lunch in the middle of the round, and when I came back, I was on the ship. Too bad the round ended more or less as soon as I was returned to the station..
Anyways, haven't played this as an abductor at all, but taking a look at the wiki and the other players responses, it seems that abductees have too many useful things in comparison to harmful ones. The only one that I could see being harmful would be changing species, I guess.
It just seems like with how many of them are purely beneficial, people'll just let themselves be captured so that they can get a cool power for free.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:02 am #82404

Either that, or just have some sort of surgery table you can't get up from. Because with normal ones you can just 'rest' and you'll get straight up, slap the scientist around, and raise hell.

Remie Richards · Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:05 am

With the Buckle refactor I ported from Mloc a little while back, you can easily have a special surgery table that buckles the patient to it.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

AnturK wrote:I'll see about the N2O breathing. That's a pretty cool idea.

Other stuff that were suggested that i probably gonna try to implement is the switch from instant area teleports to pinpoint ones with delay.
First a beam of light and after few seconds the alien.

Also something that seemed to come up pretty often is unclear wording with the abductee objectives. I was thinking of adding generic objective they would get in addition to the 'crazy' ones. Something like "Cause trouble on the station." I can't think of a wording that wouldn't force anything too specific though. Any ideas ?

I dislike pinpoint teleport, because the aliens can just teleport onto the AI's frame and card/kill it.

TheNightingale · Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:31 am

Objective #1: Abduct and probe the AI. SUCCESS!

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:50 am #82469

That will probably work well with the 'teleport interdiction' idea I've seen in a telescience thread way back: Any APC with a bluespace crystal inserted into it prevents telescience or ayylien teleportation to its designated area.
Given that bluespace crystals are pretty uncommon or difficult to obtain that should work. Right?

As far as the N2O atmosphere is concerned, please make it still contain some oxygen, so captives won't suffocate.

peoplearestrange · Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:08 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: I dislike pinpoint teleport, because the aliens can just teleport onto the AI's frame and card/kill it.

The thing is the Aliens should have no REASON to want to kill/card the AI. Objectives/stance/rp of the aliens should be one of almost non interaction or causing minimal disturbance other than means to their experiments.

It needs to be made to a point where abductors dont NEED or want to go for the AI or armory or anything other than just abducting people.

Post by **AnturK** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:20 pm #82477

Making abductors untrackable would probably make the AI-Abductor interaction less important. Alternatively making beaming down paralyse for a while so AI has time to turn on the turrets.

Also first batch of fixes and tweaks got merged : https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8976

Remie Richards · Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:26 pm

AnturK wrote:Making abductors untrackable would probably make the AI-Abductor interaction less important. Alternatively making beaming down paralyse for a while so AI has time to turn on the turrets.

Also first batch of fixes and tweaks got merged : https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8976

When I did the ninja refactor, I replaced the ninja mask/helmet's ability to not be tracked by the AI with a variable on /clothing.
Just stick that on the Alien's equipment, and you're golden.

Alex Crimson · Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:43 pm

As i said, make it like Star Trek. You need to fade in for 5-ish seconds when teleporting to the station. Would give people time to react. Maybe a chat message too.

Making them untrackable by the AI seems unnecessary. They are already hard to catch.

peoplearestrange · Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:57 pm

I think you've less got to see it like an antag plague that needs to be stopped (like cult or lings), but something that can add spice to the round. Almost a event style mode. At least thats the way I see it at its current form.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:46 pm #82522

It seems to me that most of the action that will occur in a Abudction rounds will be caused by the side effects of the Abductors doing their job, not from any active participation of the Abductors themselves.

In fact I think that's good. The game mode can more so focus on the fallout effects of these aliens experiments rather than the aliens themselves, of course stopping them would be treating the cause of the symptom, but a good Abductor team would be very hard to stop.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:28 pm #82533

The best time to stop them would probably be as they are abducting someone. Quickly down the Scientist and they are screwed.

Also bonus points if a Chemist or Scientist can rig up some kind of grenade/bomb to blow up the alien ship.

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:02 pm #82542

peoplearestrange wrote:I think you've less got to see it like an antag plague that needs to be stopped (like cult or lings), but something that can add spice to the round. Almost a event style mode. At least thats the way I see it at its current form.

My suggestion was to give Abudctors a 30% chance to spawn on rounds that aren't Nuke, Malf, or Blob.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:20 pm #82545

Drynwyn wrote:
peoplearestrange wrote:I think you've less got to see it like an antag plague that needs to be stopped (like cult or lings), but something that can add spice to the round. Almost a event style mode. At least thats the way I see it at its current form.
My suggestion was to give Abudctors a 30% chance to spawn on rounds that aren't Nuke, Malf, or Blob.

Would be awesome if we had more side/secondary-antags like this. However limit it to one Abductor team if they spawn with other antags.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:22 pm #82546

Yeah abductors are really fun to play and don't result in any deaths for the most part so they function well along side calmer modes.

Loonikus · Post by **Loonikus** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:44 pm #82549

So wait. Weren't we thinking of adding possible negative effects to implants to make abductions more varied? Because if so Abductors might leave more of a mark on the station than they do now. We should consider future changes before we consider merging Abductors into other gamemodes.

Traitor-abductor or ling-abductor would be pretty neat though.

Alex Crimson · Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:03 pm

Implants already have negative effects. Quite brutal ones.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

So far, the only abduction teams I've seen in play have been teleporting into the armory and stealing all the guns, then just critting people to teleport back, shove in the machine and dump back aboard.

That or they're just running in the halls undisguised and get validhunted.

Also since the AI is an omniscient eye, the abductors want to kill it very, very badly. ":s Alium now stunning captain" ":s alium smashed up in door now".

ChangelingRain · Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:40 am

Aliens really need to have incentive to not steal the abductee's shit, like surgery tools that ignore clothes or something, because right now they have to strip their targets and they might as well just keep the stuff because it doesn't hurt.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:01 am #82579

Its kinda funny having someone dumped back on the station naked screaming about aliens though.

Loonikus · Post by **Loonikus** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:25 am #82582

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:So far, the only abduction teams I've seen in play have been teleporting into the armory and stealing all the guns, then just critting people to teleport back, shove in the machine and dump back aboard.

That or they're just running in the halls undisguised and get validhunted.

Also since the AI is an omniscient eye, the abductors want to kill it very, very badly. ":s Alium now stunning captain" ":s alium smashed up in door now".

Fine. Go full "Heist Mode" and give them an objective that they must minimize harm to test subjects unless absolutely necessary.

Or just make them unable to use any weapons but their own. They have a decloner, that should be enough for self-defense.

peoplearestrange · Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:58 am

Drynwyn wrote:
peoplearestrange wrote:I think you've less got to see it like an antag plague that needs to be stopped (like cult or lings), but something that can add spice to the round. Almost a event style mode. At least thats the way I see it at its current form.
My suggestion was to give Abudctors a 30% chance to spawn on rounds that aren't Nuke, Malf, or Blob.

Nice! That'd work.

Alex Crimson · Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:25 am

Saegrimr wrote:Its kinda funny having someone dumped back on the station naked screaming about aliens though.

It is, but then you are completely naked locked in a room. Unfortunately its a lot of hassle to gather a new set of gear and an id. Wouldnt be surprised if most people just ragequit.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:10 pm #82660

peoplearestrange wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:
peoplearestrange wrote:I think you've less got to see it like an antag plague that needs to be stopped (like cult or lings), but something that can add spice to the round. Almost a event style mode. At least thats the way I see it at its current form.
My suggestion was to give Abudctors a 30% chance to spawn on rounds that aren't Nuke, Malf, or Blob.
Nice! That'd work.

Best part is this means more people get to have the fun of being an antag and just straight up fucking with people during the round.

>Shadowling is on station
> Abductors abduct the shadowling
>Shadowling now releases emp bursts at random

Tsaricide · Post by **Tsaricide** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:22 am #82726

well they would have to get a shadowling before he transforms, what if a shadowling/cult/rev converted the aliens?

Also the sleeping mode on the new baton doesn't see to actually do anything.

Post by **AnturK** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:08 am #82729

My laptop motherboard fried itself so there will be slight delay with abductor updates while i'm searching for replacement one. Sorry.

hanshansenhansson · Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:12 am

An idea for a negative power: "Hunger", forces the abducted guy to eat a corpse all 5 minutes to stay alive

Alex Crimson · Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:42 am

Tsaricide wrote:well they would have to get a shadowling before he transforms, what if a shadowling/cult/rev converted the aliens?

Also the sleeping mode on the new baton doesn't see to actually do anything.

They need to be stunned before you use the sleep mode.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:00 pm #82746

hanshansenhansson wrote:An idea for a negative power: "Hunger", forces the abducted guy to eat a corpse all 5 minutes to stay alive

So they become a ghoul?

Fayrik · Post by **Fayrik** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:44 pm #82748

I've touched up the current Abductor UFOs a little so that I could add the advanced camera console. The new layout is here.
It's still just as small, but I'm hoping that the new layout will feel more spacious, as the equipment isn't in quite such close proximity as it was.
(While keeping the surgery table one tile away from the surgery equipment, so that you can actually reach the tools.)

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:07 pm #82828

The Abductors really need separate hive mind channels for each team. Its a bit of a clusterfuck otherwise.

hanshansenhansson · Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:23 pm

They do already, don't they. At least the two times I was an abductor, I could only communicate with my guy.

Would it be possible to space the motherships out a bit more? Always strange to hear the butchers from Beta squad butchering away while you sit in your own mothership.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:31 pm #82830

I thought they all shared the chat. If im wrong then great.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:04 pm #82840

The abductors should be able to use research points to either augment themselves, or upgrade their gear or something else entirely. At the moment the points have no purpose. Being able to get xeno liek stealth from yoru stealth suit with x points would be cool

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:16 pm

Abductor hiveminds should be random colors so that deadchat can spy on them more effectively.

Remie Richards · Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:16 am

Bombadil wrote:The abductors should be able to use research points to either augment themselves, or upgrade their gear or something else entirely. At the moment the points have no purpose. Being able to get xeno liek stealth from yoru stealth suit with x points would be cool

If anybody gets me cool ass sprites for Alien Augments (Both items AND the onmob sprites) as suggested above ^ I will move the augment overlay icon states to a variable to allow easy custom augment icons (Which would also open the floor for badmins making your arms look however they please so, yay)

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:58 am #82916

what do you mean by augments

like the robo limbs, torso/head parts we have now or something different?