/tg/Station 13

Was asked to make this

Leave your feedback or suggestions or whatever for https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/75065

As stated in the PR, I've had good fun with it so far during the test-merge. I was initially concerned that coroner might not have enough things to do but honestly, operating and caretaking for the morgue, dissections, just-for-funsies autopsies, autopsies of strange/unusual bodies for RP purposes, managing the organ storage and building harvesters/limb growers, coordinating with the detective, robotics and chaplain... There is a ton of mileage you can get out of the job and always something to do even outside of its central mechanic, and I think that alone carries it a great deal. It's a low-pressure medical role with a variety of approaches that also eases some of the pressures on the medical doctors and paramedics during busier or high-pop shifts. Really, my only complaint thus far is how cramped a couple of the modified morgues are, but that's most an issue of mapping that can be resolved with time. Someone on the PR suggested having some kind of financial reward for incentivising autopsies in downtime and I would agree with that - perhaps coroner should have a few bounties specifically tailored for it, or some other secondary mechanics tied to providing benefits to research or cargo in some way for specific autopsies/dissections/etcetera (specific species and so forth)?

cute feature

been trying this out, was looking for an excuse to getting into doctoring and practice-stitching-up corpses is PERFECT.

i can drain blood and harvest organs, and it feels great to be able to provide people with actual replacement limbs/organs rather than robotic ones

role feels like a lot of fun, just a few things

-autopsy device seems to only print out a report when it wants to, even with a free hand
-some kind of soap or cleaning spray inside the morgue would be great
-a lamp for some mood lighting would be perfect

really enjoying this new addition, nice job

couple other things--

i've seen a bit of pushback in occ against the role existing due to the fact that apparantly some of the research is tied behind autopsies/dissections which is impossible to do without an autopsy scanner

i understand you can buy one from the vender, but it might be a good idea to just have one spawn in the morgue

coroner should have skull bandana in the vendor instead of roboticists imo

I'm really enjoying this job, since it provides you with an immediate pair of tasks to do roundstart (human and non-human dissections) and then quickly becomes more freeform. Great way to practice surgery in a lower-stakes environment! I think it might be worthwhile for them to have the option to perform autopsies or surgery-based bounties a la the weird service robots, with CentComm shoving forensics into a bluespace delivery hole or something, since that way they can still contribute to the crew even if nobody's dying. In general I like having autopsy paperwork to fuss with and the clipboards/filing cabinets in the morgues help keep it from getting out of hand. Also the job fits my primary character perfectly. Success!

I do agree it should be easier for people to get access to spare autopsy scanners, though. If you don't have a coroner on the manifest it should absolutely be possible to research the gizmo and have someone else go do the dissections; I saw mention that they're gated behind performing dissections, and I haven't code-dived to see if this is true, but it feels like an oversight (or just a bad design choice) if so. An otherwise functional Medbay shouldn't be hamstrung because nobody wanted to play a weird goth kid today.

If you absolutely want people to value what coroner brings to the table, give coroner-led dissections/autopsies more benefits instead of nerfing other Medical jobs' contributions. I didn't play any Medical jobs before this was added, so I don't know how viable these are, but here's some ideas of more things coroners could bring to the shift:

• more points in the research pool for dissections they perform (no idea if this would do anything)
• researchable tools or chemicals to reverse rotting in limbs/organs
• since there's so many 40K nerds lying around, researchable ways to make husked corpses into the Wish.com version of servitors (more golems, basically)
• researchable funeral accoutrements to help out the chaplain
• researchable ways to deal with Romerol zombies? not a direct counter but a way to make an outbreak Less Bad; might require dissecting a zombie, have fun with that
• and don't forget the potential bounties everyone's been suggesting

I, personally, would be fine with the job remaining more or less as it is, but why not make weird suggestions that could lead to fun RP scenarios and potential mayhem?

COwlbear wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:14 pm I'm really enjoying this job, since it provides you with an immediate pair of tasks to do roundstart (human and non-human dissections) and then quickly becomes more freeform. Great way to practice surgery in a lower-stakes environment! I think it might be worthwhile for them to have the option to perform autopsies or surgery-based bounties a la the weird service robots, with CentComm shoving forensics into a bluespace delivery hole or something, since that way they can still contribute to the crew even if nobody's dying. In general I like having autopsy paperwork to fuss with and the clipboards/filing cabinets in the morgues help keep it from getting out of hand. Also the job fits my primary character perfectly. Success!

I do agree it should be easier for people to get access to spare autopsy scanners, though. If you don't have a coroner on the manifest it should absolutely be possible to research the gizmo and have someone else go do the dissections; I saw mention that they're gated behind performing dissections, and I haven't code-dived to see if this is true, but it feels like an oversight (or just a bad design choice) if so. An otherwise functional Medbay shouldn't be hamstrung because nobody wanted to play a weird goth kid today.

If you absolutely want people to value what coroner brings to the table, give coroner-led dissections/autopsies more benefits instead of nerfing other Medical jobs' contributions. I didn't play any Medical jobs before this was added, so I don't know how viable these are, but here's some ideas of more things coroners could bring to the shift:

• more points in the research pool for dissections they perform (no idea if this would do anything)
• researchable tools or chemicals to reverse rotting in limbs/organs
• since there's so many 40K nerds lying around, researchable ways to make husked corpses into the Wish.com version of servitors (more golems, basically)
• researchable funeral accoutrements to help out the chaplain
• researchable ways to deal with Romerol zombies? not a direct counter but a way to make an outbreak Less Bad; might require dissecting a zombie, have fun with that
• and don't forget the potential bounties everyone's been suggesting

I, personally, would be fine with the job remaining more or less as it is, but why not make weird suggestions that could lead to fun RP scenarios and potential mayhem?

these are really good ideas, i could add in that more dissections/autopsies could add to the medical funds(paid to do it) or maybe shorten the time it takes to order stuff from cargo from the console

It's to RP based for sybil, it just doesnt work .

LeekiLoku wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 5:36 pm It's to RP based for sybil, it just doesnt work .

Lawyer, Clown, and Mime still exist just fine on sybil.

i want to play it more but it is a VERY popular job. the round i did get to play was boss

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 5:50 pm

LeekiLoku wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 5:36 pm It's to RP based for sybil, it just doesnt work .

Lawyer, Clown, and Mime still exist just fine on sybil.

Lawyer i would disagree, but the other 2 yes. You have to have a fun gimmick.

One of my concerns with the Coroner was that it would cause the dissection surgeries to be done less often, for one reason or another. There have been ~900 rounds since the coroner PR was merged, which should be more than enough to get some useful data.

On 5/7 (two days after the pr was merged), I scraped all the logs for this year so far for Sybil, Terry, and Manuel. Out of a total of 6095 rounds, the human dissection experiment was completed in 5321 of them, about 87%. Earlier today, I scraped all the rounds that had happened since then, a total of 895 of them. Of those, the dissection experiment was done in only 739 of them (83%). A 4% drop isn't massive, but I think its something that warrants further attention.

My working theory is that this drop is mainly due to lowpop rounds. On lowpop, RP-heavy roles such as the coroner are generally played less. In the absence of an actual coroner, it falls to either robotics or medbay to do the dissection experiment instead, and the added requirement of the autopsy scanner makes it more difficult to do so. It might be only a little harder, but even small effects like that will add up over hundreds of rounds. I'll try to get some more granular data to test this theory in the coming days.

For anyone interested in my methodology, see the spoiler below:

Coroner seems fine but in my opinion has a lot of untapped potential.

My suggestion would be to use coroner as a 'training' role for med-bay, particularly surgical and revival skills, arguably the most important and most daunting skills for a doctor to learn. The method for this would be a "customer" system similar to the bar and kitchen, but instead of "customers" you get "cadavers".

There would be a console in the morgue where the coroner selects from a selection of"job" types and perhaps seperate difficulties. These cadavers would be teleported to the station and fixed to a special surgical bed. A few example of possible job types would be:
- A body awaiting revival needs to be healed up to a certain level. Higher difficulties might have severe organ damage, missing parts and other complications. As well as additional requirements such as no cybernetics or 100% blood.
- A body being prepared for a funeral needs to be treated with things like organ removal, surgery to fix damage, work clothes being removed and funerary garb being put on and formaldehyde replacing blood. Higher difficulties might need replacement limbs or dehusking or special requests like mementos being placed in pockets.
- A recently deceased organ donor who needs specific organs or limbs removed quickly and sent back. Higher difficulties might have tighter time limits and organs needing treatment via chemicals.
- A mysterious death or murder that need to be autopsied and the correct cause of death reported. More difficult jobs could involve removing and examining specific organs to rule out multiple possible causes. (this one probably needs a rework of the autopsy system at large but I can't really imagine how that works out).

Low difficulty jobs would serve as an excellent introduction to many medbay mechanics, letting players explore basic surgeries and treatments without the pressure of ruining another players round. Intermediate ones would let them hone their skills and combine multiple practices to treat more severe or obscure injuries while experimenting with methodologies. While advanced jobs would provide rewards for experienced players who want to test their skills or practice turning max damage potato husks back into functional beings. The rewards would could be currency like with other "work" systems but certain jobs such as organ harvesting or funerals could also provide organs and limbs for the canny coroner. Also bodies might sometimes appear with clothing and equipment of note which could be freely pilfered.

And for traitors... emagging the cadaver console might cause it to occasionally intercept jobs that NT had earmarked for research blacksites. Things such as syndicate agents with working technology still implanted, xenos specimens or even dormant romerol zombies.

Please consider removing the research gate that became locked behind coroner.

Having just tried to play old station, I can spam the research console and spend 250k research points on all sorts of things. Including for example Medical HUDs. But you cant do the basic medical research which is locked behind all this stuff so you cant make chem machines or print hand held health analyzers, despite being able to make medical HUDs.

Honestly its not much fun station side either, if no-one is playing coroner then someone has to fork up 200 credits for the tool to do the most basic medical research, and break into the coroners area (or be CMO). Round start is one of the few points where credits matter (if you want to get the handheld crew monitor) so once more research is just a pain for medical across the board.

Edit: And the tool required to do the research experiment is locked behind the research its self. We had this issue with the tech before breaking oldstation, circular dependency not good.

It's an RP fluff role at the end of the day, like psychologist, I don't see that trying to force relevance on it benefits anyone, especially not if the current implementation is all that relevance amounts to.