Current state of The Science Department

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The Wrench
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 am
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Current state of The Science Department

Post by The Wrench » #688962

So what do you all think about the science department in total?

Any positives or negatives?
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Capsandi
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by Capsandi » #689045

idk why but I've always had the faintest impression that science would benefit from each member of the department getting a 2 shot hitscan disabler which relies on a big fragile machine in the middle of the department to function and recharge wirelessly. Maybe its cause right now scientists have no incentive to get you out of their "highly secure" department now that they aren't a gun factory.
Hell, I've seen scientists bash in the front table to let anyone do R&D and they have the gall to get pissy when i waste their points on nodes of clown shit.
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Nabski
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by Nabski » #689052

Problem
Science gets all the features and they are all disjointed.

You have features where they had their original content added then never really touched again. You see them once every fifty rounds.
Cytology. Experimentor. Bepis. Circuits. Arm's Hybridizer.

Things that have gotten SLAMMED with the nerfbat over time and ping pong between OP and completely ignored.
Toxins and Genetics I'm talking about you here.

Then Xeno has had five miles of content creep with cross breeds. And R&D is a "Press the button, yell at someone to take apart some morgue bodies and a monkey". Robotics is good.

Solution?

Easy
Genetics - Make it require plasma for injectors and self activating the machine on yourself. Wrap Arm's genetic machine into below.

Medium
Experimentor room - The mapping on this room is often the best location and SQUANDERED. Wrap the BEPIS EXPERIMENTOR and ARM either all into one machine/location OR make it so you only have functionality of one of them per shift. Maybe you can unlock more with the combat upgrade disk from lavaland. Make xenos leave their lab and come here to make cross breeds so they can't just vibe in the lab.

Harder
Toxins - Make recipes super easy again to make a normal bomb. Remove the ability to singletank bomb (They are made of a cheap metal why can they even explode instead of just rupture). To me the best part of this gameplay was always standing around and working out recipes with people and sharing them in game instead of trying to optimize a burn.
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Striders13
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by Striders13 » #689055

you scan toilets
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RedBaronFlyer
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by RedBaronFlyer » #689057

I admittedly don't have much but I've failed to get into science like, five times since all the wiki pages are outdated and whenever I would ask to shadow or intern for another scientist they would just bugger off wordlessly because they didn't want me in the way.
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Super Aggro Crag wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by oranges » #689150

if i could turn back time science wouldn't exist as a dept because every dept is supposed to do science
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Pandarsenic
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by Pandarsenic » #689170

Robotics as part of medical

Toxins independent or call it part of cargo/mining I guess

R&D instanced to each department?

Xenobiology REMOVED FROM THE GAME

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TheSmallBlue
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by TheSmallBlue » #689205

i like science, love the idea of being a researcher on top of a station, wished there was more sub departments to mess with. If it were up to me i'd make genetics a branch of science, no unique job. I'd probably grab virology, merge it with cytology and also make that a science department like xenobio. Xenobio itself needs a big remake from the ground up but i love its base concepts
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Cobby
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by Cobby » #689283

its a research station every department should have its own research aspect vs. one specific department that does research everyone else is suppose to "leech" off of.

My ideal spot would be all departments have their own research they do independently, managed by the head of said department, and the trees would be balanced in such a way there isnt an obvious choice 100% of the time (looking at you stock parts). Medical bias obv but I dislike non-medical items being prioritized simply because the other options are just too good to pass up, and the research of each aspect should reflect the corresponding departments success within a round.

This would probably mean genetics comes back to medical, xenobio goes to service reflavored as a rancher-esque job w animal husbandry, and toxins gets shifted towards atmos. This would also mean I have the desire to force it in that direction (i do not).
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blackdav123
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by blackdav123 » #689307

Science is so different from other departments because they dont have a focal point everyone can contribute to.

In service, most of the jobs interact with the chef. Botany grows plants for them, the bar and kitchen both create business for eachother, and janitors can always find something to clean in the kitchen. While none of these jobs are focused on the kitchen they all can work together to make a great kitchen.

In medical, most of the jobs interact with the medical doctors. Chemists and virologists have enough content that they never need to make anything to help heal people, but the doctors will always benefit greatly from getting chemicals and healing viruses from their coworkers.

Science falls short because so many of the jobs are completely self contained content and are unable to help eachother. Genetics, cytology, xenobiology, circuits, and even robotics all work for themselves while receiving help from RnD scientists rather than giving help. Toxins and RnD are really the only two that are able to work for both themselves and others. In this is the problem, because RnD is giving to everyone else rather than being a focal point everyone is working to aid.

Ideally research would be the goal that everyone in the department can contribute to rather than being the limiting factor that everyone has to pull out from to get their fun things.
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RedBaronFlyer
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by RedBaronFlyer » #689308

All cargo would need to contribute to research is the ability of non-qms to set up the B.E.P.I.S. I don't even know how to set the bepis up and using cargo's budget to help it. I don't even think most QMs are aware it exists. We'll have 60k credits in the bank and nothing to spend it on other than pizza and guns.
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Super Aggro Crag wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
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Drag
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by Drag » #689319

The only fun part of science is xenobiology because I can make a cute adult pink slime named Cake that will be my best friend forever
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Capsandi
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by Capsandi » #689405

The only fun part of science is genetics because i an make an army of monkeys with my appearance, though its much less interesting now that you can just examine someone to see if they're a monkey clone
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warbluke
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by warbluke » #689577

The only fun part of science is robotics because I can drain the entire ORM making borgs in ten minutes from roundstart and that's funny.
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Itseasytosee2me
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #689614

On goon, there is no tech tree. What an interesting concept, the idea that science can exist beyond a tech tree.
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by MooCow12 » #689688

Cobbys idea makes the most sense

The limitation of research points and the inability for people to earn them or outright unlock a tech without having to rely on passive generation is fundamentally flawed when everyone has their own selfish desires/needs for specific tech.

Why should botanists require medical staff to dissect corpses for them to get plant tools, why should miners rely on someone overpressurizing a bz tank in order to get their advanced mining tools, why should medbay go the entire round without any advances in the surgeries they have access to just because charlie station spent all of the research points on mechs or weapons.


The current state of research point generation makes it something that people have to fight over, and sooner or later its going to become something people LITERALLY fight over because it gates so much job content and some departments cant even fully function without their tech.

There is no cooperation with experi-sci only toxic hostilities and reasons for people to hate eachother and motives for escalation.


True cooperation would be two people directly interacting to complete a task not one person begging and pleading on radio for another to do their experiment or not waste points on a tech that doesnt benefit them.

A good example of cooperation is miners tag teaming megafauna or engineers speedbuilding an autism project or one person doing xenobio while another one does cytology in order to mind transfer into special mobs.

Its natural and not enforced, this enforced and completely indirect "cooperation" that tries to mock true interaction is toxic for the game and shouldnt be tolerated much longer.
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JusticeGoat
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by JusticeGoat » #689733

What if the tech tree was tied to the other departments ability to operate, where tech for medical unlocked as you dissected stuff and healed damage, service would unlock as you grew plants and cooked food for robot guests. The tech in those trees would be tied each respective department without using a global pool of points, then science can do their own thing to speed it up by printing "one off prototypes" tools that that can be given to the departments to get used to make those departments earn their points faster. Those one off prototypes become unlocked way earlier then when you have the ability to just mass print them having a very long cool down until fully researched. Maybe there could be a request console by the desk players can spend their department funds to buy and authorize the construction of these "prototypes"

Sorry for the bad english i'm tired!
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RedBaronFlyer
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by RedBaronFlyer » #690225

The more people something in game requires, the more likely it is to get fucked up because one department is completely unmanned, has people who don't care, or are entirely new to the job.

We already have issues, for instance, of botany refusing to grow other plants for the DNA vault some rounds. Imagine research for a department getting entirely shut down because botany can't stop growing weed and tomatoes. People already go apeshit when science hasn't researched advanced surgery tools ten minutes into the round.
WARNING, Prolonged exposure to my opinions can be mentally scarring or in some cases, FATAL
Stamper of papers, pusher of crates, and the cleaner of floors.
I'm Eugine Adrian Hynes on Manuel, I'm very uncool.
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Super Aggro Crag wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
BrianBackslide
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by BrianBackslide » #690312

To be fair, the amount of plants botany has to grow for the DNA vault is soul-crushingly agonizing and requires 100% of their attention. (And trays too!) Having somatorays mitigates it only slightly. If anything, your example goes back to the T4 lasers thing where it was so excessively painful that nobody bothered to do it.

It's not that people can't or don't want to cooperate, it's that cooperation has been made excessively obtuse to the point where it's not worth the effort.
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blackdav123
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Re: Current state of The Science Department

Post by blackdav123 » #690323

BrianBackslide wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:34 am To be fair, the amount of plants botany has to grow for the DNA vault is soul-crushingly agonizing and requires 100% of their attention. (And trays too!) Having somatorays mitigates it only slightly. If anything, your example goes back to the T4 lasers thing where it was so excessively painful that nobody bothered to do it.

It's not that people can't or don't want to cooperate, it's that cooperation has been made excessively obtuse to the point where it's not worth the effort.
to add onto this DNA vault doesnt actually require any thinking from botanists you just plant every seen in the vendor and you're good to go, no mutations or anything needed. while this is better for the non botanists breaking into an empty hydroponics to do the DNA vault it makes the experienced botanists that may be around unable to complete it in a more interesting way
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