/tg/Station 13

Heard some complaints about blob during a recent round and wanted to open a forum thread about it. Some players are saying blob isn't very skill-based for the crew and ends up being very samey, ultimately coming down to a numbers game where crew spam mechs, lasers, and emitters and blob does blob things until one side prevails. This thread is to encourage suggestions on how blob can be improved to be more enjoyable for both sides.

Please be constructive!

Blob can already reflect lasers and change types to make certain damage types less effective.

Only thing I can think of is an incentive to keep it alive that may cause conflict and doom the station entirely ala xeno eggs. Maybe being able to sell blob spores/blob zombies for a great price could do it.

This could counter the gun cargo meta and infact make them even at odds with the crew wanting to arm up and kill their golden goose...at least until things become dire enough they have no other option.

Blob isn't very skill based for the crew OR the blob and ends up being genuinely unfun.

Blobs have numerous hard counters that they don't have any ability to remotely answer.
Mechs are extremely, ridiculously durable and take practically no damage from Blob tiles or Blobbernauts. They can comfortably outrange anything the blob can do, and have more than enough ammunition to get the job done alone.
Miners are also often a problem for Blobs with no real way to counteract. They get PKAs, which do extremely high explosive damage outside the range of the blob's ability to retaliate and are unaffected by any strain the blob might roll. Additionally Miners get game breaking levels of melee armor that can only be punched through with one strain. Worse still, Blobs can't do much to prevent spacing themselves simply due to the mechanics of blob spread. It's going to happen, and they will get PKAs once it does.
It gets even worse when a Miner gets the lava staff. Blob tiles aren't lava immune, so if a miner sees it, they can put down a lava tile on that node/factory and kill it. No counters, nothing the Blob can do about it.
Emitters are another hard counter to Blobs. While they do require power and a little working around to not get blasted, they can fire practically across the map. Just put a few in a line aiming at the core and it'll get whittled down eventually. It's worth noting that reflective blob walls do not reflect emitter beams.
Lastly, lasers are still a strong counter to blobs. Being able to shoot down a tile in 2-3 hits outside the range of their EMP strain, the strain that's supposed to counter that is completely bogus. Reflect blobs being a %chance to reflect lasers additionally makes them a waste of the absurd amount of resource points needed to make them. They'll get lasered down all the same, reflective or not.
You might be fighting all of these and more at the same time, meaning that any strain you roll is unlikely to help you.

Mechanically Blobs also have issues.
Most of the strains are very weak, or are noob traps like EMP. Debris Devourer shouldn't even be in the game given how bad it is, but all of the strains need a rebalance.
Blob tiles tend to be extremely passive, you can go up with Deathnettles and just start shredding and not get touched unless the blob spends resources to attack that particular player. This seems to worsen with higher TD, making the blob even more passive.
Yes, you have to spend needed resources to attack anything. So the Blob has to spend resources to build to a player, then spend more resources to actually do anything to that player before they just break out and run away.
Blobs don't have strong enough UI elements to help them plan their node locations. The game doesn't show the radii of nodes to the player, so they just have to know how far they need to place each resource and factory node. It doesn't feel fun and it's confusing to first time Blobs.
Blobbernauts are extremely expensive for what you get. Even the best Blobber is going to get mowed down by laser fire that they can't do anything about, get crushed by a mech, ruined by a miner, etc. Blobbernauts don't have much room in the heightened lethality of the game post laser buff, and were weak even before. Their healing is absolutely glacial as well, which drastically reduces their ability to provide support for the Blob. On top of that, they're at the mercy of whatever strain the Blob is, which makes them hit like wet tissue paper more often than not.

Overall, Blob is pathetically weak, half its strains aren't worth using or can't accomplish their intended function, it has bad conveyance to Blob players and a distinct lack of options to face its counters.

Somewhat related, if I were to hazard a guess an overwhelming majority of blob wins are usually up to a few factors:

1. The station is getting spitroasted already (dynamic is so fun /s) so all the station can muster is two half dead crew members trying to beat a blob with a welder and a crowbar.
2. A blob spawns/gets discovered like, two and a half hours in and the crew just doesn't care at that point
3. The shuttle fails to leave because of an undiscovered blob and the crew is in terminal late round fatigue so they just sit on the shuttle and let the blob win
4. The blob set up in an annoying as shit position to assault and the crew either can't really get to it or they just throw in the towel (usually involving z-level stuff, z-levels my detested) I'd love to see a heatmap of blob core placement because I guarantee half of them on icebox are in icebox atmos.

I still really like blob because it's one of the few antags that have the whole crew come together and fight it, but it usually gets rolled pretty badly. From what I see on Manuel being a blob is like being a survivor doing a last stand in a zombie apocalypse where the crew steadily increases in numbers and equipment. It's basically over once you see engineering lining up ten emitters and the cargo techs waltz in with six+ laser crates. It isn't a question of if you lose but how hard you'll fight before losing.

my main complaint is simply that blob holds up the round way more than needed (esp because of delaying shuttle)
i dont think it needs to be any stronger it's way too strong already

I dislike how Blob is on Sybil & Dynamic, but there's not much to add beyond what others have already said. I have felt that Blob is more of a crew/station check on whether the crew is lacking in (oversimplified terms) manpower, weapons, or resources (power & minerals). This probably worked better in favor of the crew when Secret was a game mode and the crew usually only had to deal with 1 main antagonistic force. Because of Dynamic and how late Blob usually appears, the crew is missing at least one of those points by the time a blob shows up. This then usually leads to a slow but inevitable demise. Blob just feels like it is in a very swingy state where it is either too weak or too strong, making adjustments to it difficult.

As for actually contributing to the thread's purpose, maybe there could be some kind of 1-time comeback mechanic each round for the Blob/crew (Despite just mentioning how swingy blob is). That way if things look bad for either side, some automated event occurs that helps even the field, once. It probably can't be too strong either to be abused. For example:

• If the crew is losing, at a certain blob tile#/400 maybe spawn an ERT/anti-blob squad to help the crew fight the blob. Some way for crew that died to get a 2nd chance and maybe some resources to fix whatever is preventing the station from functioning properly in its fight with the blob. Maybe they can come with an egun each, a power generator and RCDs. Issue is if they're not too strong they'll probably just end up evacuating with the crew, or they'll becoming walking loot-boxes for whatever antag is still around.

• If the blob is losing, at a certain blob tile#/400 or core health dips below a certain point the blob core or specified point releases a repelling pulse/temp hp and gains a few emergency resources or special effects depending on its type (Blazing Oil creating a bunch of oiled tiles, Electromagnetic releasing a medium sized EMP, etc). This would be mostly to get some breathing room and repel crew for a very short duration for the blob player to buy time. If the blob somehow makes a comeback without using the pulse it cannot save it to use it later, it only gets the one window of opportunity.

Also, this is unrelated but it would be really nice to let the crew know in some way that bombing the Blob is not a viable strategy. It only harms the crew and the blob core can tank several BSA shots/explosions- and that's if the crew can sacrifice a borg or crewmember to put a gps/bomb nearby.

Just a thought, what if blob was only something that happened as a punishment/disincentive for something happening on the station or as part of another antagonist.

Then it'd be even rarer and even less people would learn its already poorly communicated mechanics.

It'd be a good fit for slaughter demons showing up if blood isn't cleaned.

its a gear check

BrianBackslide wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:08 pm Blob isn't very skill based for the crew OR the blob and ends up being genuinely unfun.

Good post, agree with all of it.

I think blob core should drop an item that not only rewards the crew for killing it but also makes them want to continue playing the round after dealing with it (but doesnt force them, just an incentive), while also possibly giving the blob player / ghosts something else to do (this is a stretch goal)

Just like a dead nightmare can be used to turn the rest of the crew into fully fledged nightmares

Just like xeno organs can be reused or brainswapped with crew

Just like aliens provide access to rare and unique tools and technology and surgery

Just like space dragon gives more than enough carp bodies to turn many many people into carp hybrids that can heal in and survive space.

Also I think there is alot more strategies that the crew can employ its just that the time to do so varies


Crew can mass teleport ontop of the blob core with a launchpad and kill it in melee, although this requires setting up close to the core and getting its coordinates, something a blob should realize is happening pretty early.

chemists can make acid grenades that wipe out quite a bit of the blob at once

blob can play extremely mobile and spend all of its points constantly making new nodes and switching to them every once in awhile. (or use networked fibers which is its own playstyle)

crew can reinforce areas making it nearly impossible for a blob to expand in that direction using high tier windows since they actually have integrity ontop of their armor values unlike reinforced walls which are just binary (am i broken or not), you can also possibly use any of the shield generator types (the ones powered by emitters probably being the best)

High tier armored windows should definitely be used more since they let you keep the ground you gained against blob while youre pushing with lasers (dont even have to screwdriver them to the floor i think)

Make it work like nukies where you can evacuate at any time but you lose if the blob is still around and you extra lose if it gets on the shuttle. Maybe let the crew greentext if they self-destruct if they can't kill the blob on their own.

Networked fibres is fun and should be used more as a blob.

Chasing a blob around is very fun. running away as the blob is very fun.

warbluke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:14 pm Maybe let the crew greentext if they self-destruct if they can't kill the blob on their own.

So if there are nukies and also a blob crew can just let nukies win no conflict of interest.

Why not double blob's resource generation? Then the blob can actually do things. Not their spread, just resources. Or make attacking not cost resources.

New sprites?

The best way I can think of giving blob a CHANCE at winning is two things.
1) Get rid of / Rework / Buff all the noob trap strains. Blazing oil and Electromagnetic Web are utter crap and their benefits are completely overshadowed by their downsides (Going blazing oil gets you killed by water far faster than fire ever would and the EMP effect sucks ass)

2) Give blobs the split consciousness ability like in paradise. Basically lets a second blob overmind take over half of your tiles as a different strain to help with the micro

Am I the only one who thinks blob is fine as is? I've managed to get blob twice recently on Manuel, lost one, won one. And the one I won it was a very long drawn out epic battle royale where the crew had mechs and PKAs, but I won by slowly focus firing down individuals and backspreading.

As for fighting the blob, I like the whole "raid boss" feeling it gives off, where the whole crew has to come together to work as a team to fight it. It's really fun when a heretic or a ling openly joins the crew to help fight the blob.

Basically, I think it's fine as is, and really just needs QoL stuff, like the fact your camera can get cut off if you're looking at the edge and the crew kills that area quickly needs to be fixed, and better visualization of where you can place resource nodes.

I like blob too and would be disappointed with too major of an overhaul, but particularly it has the unique potential to just get bogged down into a very long stalemate. The antag shouldn't require the admins to click the "call ERT" button to prevent 40 dead players having to wait 40 minutes for the fight between the 5 remaining players and the blob to finally resolve.

(Spitballing here) It might be interesting if there were some kind of scaling mechanic that could break the monotony. Maybe (perhaps time-gated from the time the blob spawned) the blob could create some sort of "all-in" "flag" tile; they lose a substantial amount of resource generation while it's up; if this "flag" is protected for long enough the blob wins/gets a shitton of resources/spawns 10 blobbernauts idk
and if the "flag" is destroyed the blob instadies/gets heavily penalized resourcegen and/or growth idk

Imagine if blobs can grow into consoles and machines to control them. For example a blob infecting a wall radio and being able to talk through it. (With a super strong accent applied)

That would be epic.

I feel like blobbernaut is the biggest issue with blob. It stings so much to be falling behind, finally save up enough resources for a desperately needed blobbernaut, and 5 seconds later it's dead. Now imagine that happening like 3 times in a row.

The way that blob interacts with crawling individuals needs to change, having people just spam crawl out of damage is frustrating.

NoxVS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:00 am I feel like blobbernaut is the biggest issue with blob. It stings so much to be falling behind, finally save up enough resources for a desperately needed blobbernaut, and 5 seconds later it's dead. Now imagine that happening like 3 times in a row.

Blobbernaught's are super weird in my experience. They either take seventeen centuries to kill or die in five seconds. I guess the blob type is affecting that.

how to fix blob: let me spawn as one from observe whenever i choose

Really, though, I love Blob as it is. It tickles an asymmetrical RTS niche that I enjoy, where you're building structures and stuff, then giving orders to other players.
Being a Blob is very fun. Being a blobbernaut or zombie isn't as fun, but they're important and it's usually constant action that distracts you from the downsides of being a basic mob. I kind of wish there was more they could do- maybe give them the ability to repair stuff or some kind of sub-structure that they can build. Or an alternate kind of blobbernaut that can build things.

I also like how it's one of the things that immediately causes everyone on the crew, antag or no, to come together(either to fight the blob, or troll people fighting the blob).

If blob is to be reworked in any way, I hope these two cores of its identity remain- a polarizing thing that immediately splits the station into two sides, and an asymmetrical RTS enemy.

carshalash wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2024 3:32 am The way that blob interacts with crawling individuals needs to change, having people just spam crawl out of damage is frustrating.

Yeah, that seems wack. Maybe let the overmind 'grab' people who are on the floor by right clicking on them, and have it basically be death. Or let blobbernauts pin adjacent prone people down. IDK. Some way of countering crawling. this would very much buff slippery blob though

Unironically, let blob pick which ghost inhabits its blobbernaut, its too easy for someone who doesnt know what they are doing to grief blob because the blob is spending over 100 resources to make a blobbernaught just for it to run away and die.


A blobbernaut is a massive investment for a blob...literally the only thing a blobbernaut has to do to grief the blob and severely impact their chances of survival is by running off and dieing.

AND RUNNING OFF AND DIEING IS HOW MOST PLAYERS APPROACH GHOST ROLES.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:24 am Unironically, let blob pick which ghost inhabits its blobbernaut, its too easy for someone who doesnt know what they are doing to grief blob because the blob is spending over 100 resources to make a blobbernaught just for it to run away and die.


A blobbernaut is a massive investment for a blob...literally the only thing a blobbernaut has to do to grief the blob and severely impact their chances of survival is by running off and dieing.

AND RUNNING OFF AND DIEING IS HOW MOST PLAYERS APPROACH GHOST ROLES.

Never going to happen and never should happen, because then it would lead to metaganging and people never letting new players play and learn blobbernaut.

Not saying your complaint isn't valid, but that's the reasons it will never be changed in the way requested.

You're right we would never merge that
also you'd what, pick someone's ckey off a list? dumb

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:24 am Unironically, let blob pick which ghost inhabits its blobbernaut, its too easy for someone who doesnt know what they are doing to grief blob because the blob is spending over 100 resources to make a blobbernaught just for it to run away and die.


A blobbernaut is a massive investment for a blob...literally the only thing a blobbernaut has to do to grief the blob and severely impact their chances of survival is by running off and dieing.

AND RUNNING OFF AND DIEING IS HOW MOST PLAYERS APPROACH GHOST ROLES.

my proposed solution to this would be to refund the factory/points if the blobber dies within like a minute of spawning, instead of letting them pick from among ghosts. either there's a blobber skill issue, which i don't think the blob should be punished for, or the blob is getting stomped and desperately needs the points back.

Then it would punish players for going above and beyond to kill the blobbernaut since they are a valuable target to be bursted down due to the high value they provide over a longer lifespan.

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:06 am You're right we would never merge that
also you'd what, pick someone's ckey off a list? dumb

I was gonna have it locked behind upgrading a sentient blob zombie / blob spore, reducing the cost to upgrade since its harder to get (youd need a corpse or a specific strain to get a sentient spore/zombie), but then you get to decide if you upgrade them if they perform well enough.

But if picking players to upgrade at all is bad, then we should just nerf the cost and power of blobbernaut so its not a big deal to get/lose one begin with.

What I'd do is make it so producing a blobbernaut doesn't stop the factory from making spores, and if the current blobbernaut dies another one can be purchased from the same factory

Spores are good chaff, i wish blob players used middle mouse button to direct them more

The concept of chaff in an rts sense is so nonexistent within ss13 so it does make sense people rarely use this idea of throwing mobs at an enemy, not to beat them but to distract them. Sometimes late game antagonistic botanists and xenobiologists do this but usually thats because their mobs have actually decent killing power.

Maybe instead of swapping types, a blob can start out as a simple default blob. then spend points to go down a kind of tech tree, which slowly makes it more specialised.