/tg/Station 13

They went from arguably the most broken item for traitors to the shittiest shit that ever shat. I generally like to keep my OP unbiased in the feedback forum, but holy shit sleepypens suck fucking butts. You can jab someone with it and they can taze you, cuff you, deconstruct a table, build a chair, buckle you, PDA someone for help, write their autobiography in pen three times, guess every possible combination on your PDA to break into your uplink, travel to every known area of the entire universe and back, have a family and grow old before the sleepypen FINALLY kicks in and they fall asleep, and before you can resist out of the chair they'll be awake already.

On top of that, they're one-use items with a tell once they're used ("You feel a tiny dick!") that's unique to them so they're hardly stealthy, and buying them costs 4 telecrystals (that's one fifth of your TC wasted on what's essentially a pen full of diarrhea).

I know everybody hates the old "parapen+c4 to win" thing but holy fuck sleepypens are the worst thing in the entire fucking game and need some kind of buff.

fuck

YOU FEEL LIKE YOU TOOK TOO MUCH MORPHINE

They should have their own Chemical that just puts you to sleep, I think the Morphine OD is a really hilarious workaround

I laughed and I agree.

Sorry to use oldchems as my examples, not caught up fully in that job, but I always thought a death pen would be more interesting, Specifically, A lexorin overdose, Which if you recall prevented breathing, but didn't slow you down or prevent you from screaming your bloody head off about your location or inability to breathe for like.. a bit over a full minute. Maybe if it killed slightly slower and your only good chance was high dose of the Dexalin equivalent could save you

situationally it could be a powerful asset, and it's not a KO or stun, so it's really not that big a deal in and of itself.

I agree with this. The only good feature of a sleepypen is the fact that it mutes people.

But that is completely outclassed by the EMP kit which costs 1 TC more but includes a infinitely reuseable 1 tile EMP flashlight that lets you disable someone's radio and also comes with an implant and 2 EMP grenades.

What about trying the refillable chempen again? Keep in mind that the rag is already ingame and does something very similar and yet nobody seems to consider it overpowered.

damp rag is hilarious.

I muted my target in the open corridor, but he ran before I could ebow him.

For the next 10 minutes, he ran aroun in public spaced, unable to call for help (he'd thrown his pda away earlier), as I ran after he reapplying the mute.
He even got a hold of a pen and paper, but I stole the pen, and eventually stunned and cuffed him.

But yeah, sleepy pens are shit compared to emp kit.

Not to mention that morphine has a beneficial side-effect, allowing the target to flee the scene more easily.

Sleepypen could use some work. It uses tirizine, which is apparently a stamina-damaging toxin exclusive to sleepypens? Tirizene could easily be modified and it wouldn't have any practical effect on chemistry as a whole. Just remove morphine and buff the tirizene to do something more useful to the traitor. The 'you feel a tiny prick' message could also be removed, making the effects more similar to a changeling's sting in that you have to watch for the toxin's effects instead of receiving a big fat text warning. Depends on how balanced the toxin is, though.

Refillable sleepypens would be fun, but might also be stupidly overpowered in the hands of a competent chemist or scientist (or hilariously enough, botanist). It'd add some fun uses to the traitor toxin kit, though.

Babin wrote:Not to mention that morphine has a beneficial side-effect, allowing the target to flee the scene more easily.

Sleepypen could use some work. It uses tirizine, which is apparently a stamina-damaging toxin exclusive to sleepypens? Tirizene could easily be modified and it wouldn't have any practical effect on chemistry as a whole. Just remove morphine and buff the tirizene to do something more useful to the traitor. The 'you feel a tiny prick' message could also be removed, making the effects more similar to a changeling's sting in that you have to watch for the toxin's effects instead of receiving a big fat text warning. Depends on how balanced the toxin is, though.

Refillable sleepypens would be fun, but might also be stupidly overpowered in the hands of a competent chemist or scientist (or hilariously enough, botanist). It'd add some fun uses to the traitor toxin kit, though.

>Get toxins kit
>Get refillable sleepypen
>RIP: The station

Bombadil wrote:

Babin wrote:Not to mention that morphine has a beneficial side-effect, allowing the target to flee the scene more easily.

Sleepypen could use some work. It uses tirizine, which is apparently a stamina-damaging toxin exclusive to sleepypens? Tirizene could easily be modified and it wouldn't have any practical effect on chemistry as a whole. Just remove morphine and buff the tirizene to do something more useful to the traitor. The 'you feel a tiny prick' message could also be removed, making the effects more similar to a changeling's sting in that you have to watch for the toxin's effects instead of receiving a big fat text warning. Depends on how balanced the toxin is, though.

Refillable sleepypens would be fun, but might also be stupidly overpowered in the hands of a competent chemist or scientist (or hilariously enough, botanist). It'd add some fun uses to the traitor toxin kit, though.

>Get toxins kit
>Get refillable sleepypen
>RIP: The station

Nothing wrong with that mate. What, as soon as someone says over the radio that they were pricked and now they're dying of oxyloss, you aren't going to start arresting the chemist running around with a pen out, or even ask them who passed them when they were pricked? I mean come on, you can't count on people having Down's syndrome and not being able to identify these things.

Make it refillable. It'd actually be pretty cool in the right hands, and maybe it'll help make traitors actually be fearsome forces on the station.

Bombadil wrote:

Babin wrote:Not to mention that morphine has a beneficial side-effect, allowing the target to flee the scene more easily.

Sleepypen could use some work. It uses tirizine, which is apparently a stamina-damaging toxin exclusive to sleepypens? Tirizene could easily be modified and it wouldn't have any practical effect on chemistry as a whole. Just remove morphine and buff the tirizene to do something more useful to the traitor. The 'you feel a tiny prick' message could also be removed, making the effects more similar to a changeling's sting in that you have to watch for the toxin's effects instead of receiving a big fat text warning. Depends on how balanced the toxin is, though.

Refillable sleepypens would be fun, but might also be stupidly overpowered in the hands of a competent chemist or scientist (or hilariously enough, botanist). It'd add some fun uses to the traitor toxin kit, though.

>Get toxins kit
>Get refillable sleepypen
>RIP: The station

>Get toxins kit
>Get refillable sleepypen
>Jab a nerd
>"You feel a tiny fucking shit!"
>"HELP HE'S GOT A SLEEPYPEN TRAITOR HE"
>that, or they run around for a few million years due to sleepy pens sucking massive cock and get help/disable you in some way
>Security dogpiles on you

Bombadil wrote:

Babin wrote:Not to mention that morphine has a beneficial side-effect, allowing the target to flee the scene more easily.

Sleepypen could use some work. It uses tirizine, which is apparently a stamina-damaging toxin exclusive to sleepypens? Tirizene could easily be modified and it wouldn't have any practical effect on chemistry as a whole. Just remove morphine and buff the tirizene to do something more useful to the traitor. The 'you feel a tiny prick' message could also be removed, making the effects more similar to a changeling's sting in that you have to watch for the toxin's effects instead of receiving a big fat text warning. Depends on how balanced the toxin is, though.

Refillable sleepypens would be fun, but might also be stupidly overpowered in the hands of a competent chemist or scientist (or hilariously enough, botanist). It'd add some fun uses to the traitor toxin kit, though.

>Get toxins kit
>Get refillable sleepypen
>RIP: The station

If you think that's unfair, just imagine if there was a refillable, ranged chempen that spawns in medbay storage and costs 0 TC. The entire station would be wiped out if a traitor had access to that.

>get tk and xray
>tk a pen and stab people randomly in the corridor when they pass other people

Tokiko2 wrote:

Bombadil wrote:

Babin wrote:Not to mention that morphine has a beneficial side-effect, allowing the target to flee the scene more easily.

Sleepypen could use some work. It uses tirizine, which is apparently a stamina-damaging toxin exclusive to sleepypens? Tirizene could easily be modified and it wouldn't have any practical effect on chemistry as a whole. Just remove morphine and buff the tirizene to do something more useful to the traitor. The 'you feel a tiny prick' message could also be removed, making the effects more similar to a changeling's sting in that you have to watch for the toxin's effects instead of receiving a big fat text warning. Depends on how balanced the toxin is, though.

Refillable sleepypens would be fun, but might also be stupidly overpowered in the hands of a competent chemist or scientist (or hilariously enough, botanist). It'd add some fun uses to the traitor toxin kit, though.

>Get toxins kit
>Get refillable sleepypen
>RIP: The station

If you think that's unfair, just imagine if there was a refillable, ranged chempen that spawns in medbay storage and costs 0 TC. The entire station would be wiped out if a traitor had access to that.

Did you know that research can make an automatic version of that? Including one that synthesises its own chemicals?

DemonFiren wrote:

Tokiko2 wrote:

Bombadil wrote:

Babin wrote:Not to mention that morphine has a beneficial side-effect, allowing the target to flee the scene more easily.

Sleepypen could use some work. It uses tirizine, which is apparently a stamina-damaging toxin exclusive to sleepypens? Tirizene could easily be modified and it wouldn't have any practical effect on chemistry as a whole. Just remove morphine and buff the tirizene to do something more useful to the traitor. The 'you feel a tiny prick' message could also be removed, making the effects more similar to a changeling's sting in that you have to watch for the toxin's effects instead of receiving a big fat text warning. Depends on how balanced the toxin is, though.

Refillable sleepypens would be fun, but might also be stupidly overpowered in the hands of a competent chemist or scientist (or hilariously enough, botanist). It'd add some fun uses to the traitor toxin kit, though.

>Get toxins kit
>Get refillable sleepypen
>RIP: The station

If you think that's unfair, just imagine if there was a refillable, ranged chempen that spawns in medbay storage and costs 0 TC. The entire station would be wiped out if a traitor had access to that.

Did you know that research can make an automatic version of that? Including one that synthesises its own chemicals?

I miss neurotoxin syringes.

bumping because fuck sleepypens (and also because it's still an issue)

I tried using a sleepy pen a little bit ago without knowing how awful they are now. What's the point of using them now? No instant knockdown, not refillable to not be worthless and they might as well be overt with the message it gives.

They might actually be balanced again if that tiny prick message got removed.

Add a chemical that makes people confused.

Last time someone used one on me I was able to run straight to medbay and still had time to futile point at the chemist, trying to get to the dumb bastard to help me, for over two minutes.

I made a pull request to reduce morphine amounts below the overdose level so it doesn't blow your cover. The timing to take effect is only 30 seconds, I don't think it's too much given that the victim is mute and very quickly slowed down before going unconscious for a long time and being completely at your mercy.

I also don't think the "you feel a tiny prick" message needs to go, all pens do that and there's zero way to distinguish a sleepy pen from a regular pen so it's easy to deny everything. The message does force you to not be obvious when attacking your target.

CosmicScientist wrote: Can't you still use an empty/full syringe on it to get the message that mentions it's not something you can put reagents/take reagents from?

The uplink description already mentions that it is one use only.

phil235 wrote:I also don't think the "you feel a tiny prick" message needs to go, all pens do that and there's zero way to distinguish a sleepy pen from a regular pen so it's easy to deny everything. The message does force you to not be obvious when attacking your target.

>get jabbed
>try to speak and cannot
this pushes "trying to speak after getting jabbed by a pen" forward as a meta and i'd rather just not have the tiny prdick message than having a traitor item that is still shitty be so easily countered

Does that mean normal pens are also getting untinypricked?

Because there goes all my fun as mime: Pricking people with normal pens, dropping a wall, then running away.

I didn't have much problems with nerfed pen. You just have to be more considerate, prick in more secluded areas if you can, and try to stop your target from running too far away. Disarming, tabling helps.

I don't mind it. It's not an instant kill anymore, even without c4.

Lumbermancer wrote:I didn't have much problems with nerfed pen. You just have to be more considerate, prick in more secluded areas if you can, and try to stop your target from running too far away. Disarming, tabling helps.

I don't mind it. It's not an instant kill anymore, even without c4.

If you can table him why bother with the pen at all, just slap cuffs on him and emp his radio.

Well personally I suck at tabling because of ping pong :3

Just return the oldpen and oldling, undo these hug-box changes. Make antags scary again.

I recently discovered you can't use these on people wearing hardsuits (and likely other armors). This is bad.

There's a difference between 'scary' and 'tiny prick, have a nice death'. The 'hugbox bogeyman' isn't entirely a creature of malice.

Sleepypens work like syringes: you can't inject them into people if they've got something thick on (biosuits, space suits, hardsuits, anything with nopierce?). Making them work through hardsuits would increase their usefulness a little, I think. (If you're in a hardsuit, you're slow anyway, have fun running away!~)

How many bad chemicals can we shove into this poor little one shot item before the nerf herders come a calling?

Maybe call it enfeeblement pen and press that limit?

Sleepypens give illegal tech research, but normal pens don't. It's less likely to get you fired for abusing a prisoner (I WANT A LAWYER!!!1), at least.

I sometimes carry a whole backpack full of pens to confuse security.

Just return a nerfed version of the old parapen, with the following conditions:

- Not instant. Takes a while for its effect to occur. (30 seconds?)
- Gives no message to the target.
- Complete paralysis.
- Single use only.

Phalanx300 wrote:Just return a nerfed version of the old parapen, with the following conditions:

- Not instant. Takes a while for its effect to occur. (30 seconds?)
- Gives no message to the target.
- Complete paralysis.
- Single use only.

this is essentially what we have now but with no message and less delay. would be nicer than what we have i guess, but 30 seconds is pretty fucking huge in the scheme of things regardless.

I'd be all for reducing the time as much as possible but I don't believe some coders would approve. Removing the message that you're getting injected is absolutely needed though. Otherwise all aspects of stealth are removed, same with the mute.

What about bringing back Sleeptoxin for the pen? The old Sleeptoxin used to have a nice sideeffect of causing drowsiness which blurred the victims screen, slowed them down and even made them pass out occasionally before the full sleep effect occured. Morphine on the other hand just gives the victim a speed boost before they fall asleep. This might help stop people easily overpowering you or running away after being stabbed.