mediborg

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Cik
 
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mediborg

Postby Cik » Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:47 pm #93616

mediborg really needs help. it's fixed hypo is versatile but extremely weak, but that's not the main problem.

it can use the medical equipment (sleepers, cryo) but cannot set them up, which i suppose is fine; they are supposed to lose out on versatility. but really, it can't even perform it's function as well as doctors can. with the addition of blood loss, which it can't heal in any way, it's borderline useless in treating heavy wounds as those will always be accompanied by heavy blood loss. IMO to do it's job it needs at least

blood synthesizer / bag
the ability to load IV drips, or to deploy them, and then to apply them to people

what would be nice:

hypo with slightly stronger brute/burn healing chems
chemistry set(?) so it could make chems to put in it's beaker
less battery use, since you need 3~ modules on almost all the time it eats power like crazy.
blood analyzer (for detecting poisons? mite b kewl)
flashbang grenades to stop those MOTHERFUCKERS FROM RUNNING AWAY WHEN I AM TRYING TO HEAL THEM FUCK
brute patches (to be honest i hate these fucking things, they are so out of whack with ingested chems, but as an alternative to stronger medicine than salglu it might be OK)

the surgery tools were nice and for a time i thought the medcyborg was pretty good, but the speed at which it heals is truly glacial. you have to stick with a single patient for MINUTES to salglu them to full health, many times they will be running away from you or busy doing something else and it's a pain.

i'd like to play medcyborg now but it's flatly inferior to sec/eng, and i think it should be good enough to see people choosing it roundstart over those two. very few people play MD, and cyborgs are supposed to help people, right? making medcyborg better also won't effect the balance of the game nearly at all i think; it doesn't make antags less effective for instance.

tl;dr buff medcyborg it needs help with the new additions to medicine.



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Re: mediborg

Postby TheNightingale » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:16 pm #93620

Click the health analyzer to swap it from physical to chemical mode, letting you scan chemicals in someone's blood (this works with all health analyzers, and is basically a mass spectrometer but better). I think they can use sleepers (use the sleeper menu to Open it, then click-drag your patient inside to automatically close it on them; same as cryo), but don't quote me on that.

The surgery tools should, I think, be condensed into a single omni-surgery tool (just to save UI space - click it to change its type).
Some way to load a custom chemical mix into the hypospray would be good; I think they do have large beakers at the moment, but no way to really use them because they don't have hands. How about a beaker-grabber module that acts like a hand, but only for reagent containers? A built-in dispenser might be a little too powerful (unless emagged, perhaps, letting them mix up their own toxins in the field).
A defibrillator upgrade available from Robotics might be a good idea too. I think goof is working on a chemical that's not utterly awful for the hypo. How about a regenerating bruise pack and ointment stack too, for when your patient has 95 burn damage on one body part?
Blood synth would be great too - they have gauze at the moment, but blood loss is still dangerous.

Flashbang grenades would be wonderful, but abused, so they're never getting in.

Cik
 
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Re: mediborg

Postby Cik » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:23 pm #93624

TheNightingale wrote:Click the health analyzer to swap it from physical to chemical mode, letting you scan chemicals in someone's blood (this works with all health analyzers, and is basically a mass spectrometer but better). I think they can use sleepers (use the sleeper menu to Open it, then click-drag your patient inside to automatically close it on them; same as cryo), but don't quote me on that.

The surgery tools should, I think, be condensed into a single omni-surgery tool (just to save UI space - click it to change its type).
Some way to load a custom chemical mix into the hypospray would be good; I think they do have large beakers at the moment, but no way to really use them because they don't have hands. How about a beaker-grabber module that acts like a hand, but only for reagent containers? A built-in dispenser might be a little too powerful (unless emagged, perhaps, letting them mix up their own toxins in the field).
A defibrillator upgrade available from Robotics might be a good idea too. I think goof is working on a chemical that's not utterly awful for the hypo. How about a regenerating bruise pack and ointment stack too, for when your patient has 95 burn damage on one body part?
Blood synth would be great too - they have gauze at the moment, but blood loss is still dangerous.

Flashbang grenades would be wonderful, but abused, so they're never getting in.


Spoiler:
the flashbang was a joke


the medcyborg has a syringe so you can use chems out of a beaker, so that's not an issue, it's just that besides asking very nicely or getting someone to open a locker so you can siphon some syringes you can't really load it with anything. not that that's a terrible obstacle. i'd like to see the beaker be interactable so you can do beaker <----> beaker transfers from tables or something. a defibrillator would be great to have.

like i said in OP, i'm not against bruise pack esque objects but i think they are really broken. i suppose if they are going to stay the way they are the cyborg should probably have access to them in some form.

edit: i genuinely did not know about the chemical scanner, that is neat as hell

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Re: mediborg

Postby Anonmare » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:08 pm #93634

Mediborgs really need some more effective means of healing. I'd be massive in favour of regenerating stacks of brute and burn. Maybe have a bottle of anti-toxin as well but only has 30 units like the standard bottle. You usually only need 5 units to cure most toxins anyway and maybe 15 if it's severe poisoning. An internal synthesiser would be helpful but I'd argue having it restricted to certain elements at first and needing upgrades to get access to more complicated reagents.

Mediborg right now is only good for assassination when emagged which is the exact opposite of it's purpose.
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iamgoofball
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Re: mediborg

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:26 pm #93639

when trekchems get merged I'm giving them the trekchems

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PKPenguin321
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Re: mediborg

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:43 pm #93696

iamgoofball wrote:when trekchems get merged I'm giving them the trekchems

This is good but also not really what this feedback is getting at
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TheNightingale
 
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Re: mediborg

Postby TheNightingale » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:49 pm #93697

Mediborgs need more than just new (or, well, old) chemicals to be effective. An Engiborg is superior to an Engineer in repair projects, but can't do anything else; a Security borg is superior to a Security Officer in arresting people, but can't do anything else...

... so why are mediborgs objectively inferior to even a mildly prepared M.D?

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Summoner
 
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Re: mediborg

Postby Summoner » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:25 am #93711

Mediborg with Defibs too, make them really good for quick 'frontlines' medical attention.
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Re: mediborg

Postby Shaps-cloud » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:44 am #93786

Eh, defibs might be going too far, the CMO's compact defib is very powerful because of it's mobility, having more than one defib floating around the station at all times would be pushing it

Also secborg is hardly completely superior to an officer since they don't have a ranged instastun
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cedarbridge
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Re: mediborg

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:35 pm #93881

Shaps wrote:Eh, defibs might be going too far, the CMO's compact defib is very powerful because of it's mobility, having more than one defib floating around the station at all times would be pushing it

Also secborg is hardly completely superior to an officer since they don't have a ranged instastun

I don't really see an issue with borgs having a defib. Just tie its usefulness to the borg's power reserves. There's a reason the borg baton is kinda underused. 1k is a lot of power use per swing.

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Re: mediborg

Postby Cik » Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:51 pm #93888

i don't think there's anything wrong with a borg defib, though being able to use IVs is far more important, you have enough medicine to keep someone alive indefinitely even in very harsh conditions, and asimov will prevent you from reviving harm sources anyway in most cases.

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Re: mediborg

Postby TheNightingale » Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:14 pm #93897

Mobile defibrillators are very powerful; if it's gated behind a cyborg upgrade module (like the mining borg's satchel of holding, or the security borg's rapid taser cooler) that might help somewhat. By then, everyone has defibs in their BoHs anyway.

Asimov says you have to help harm sources if they're humans. Immediate definite harm overrides any potential future harm; you have to heal that operative, regardless of whether you know they're going to C20r everyone after.

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Re: mediborg

Postby Cik » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:10 pm #93934

theoretical mediborg with theoretical defibrillator standing over theoretical operative, responsible for drastic fall in station integrity and at least one murder, armed to the teeth. the operative is dead.

should you revive him?

even if he fails in his mission after being revived he will experience positive harm in being killed again by the crew, and they will experience harm in slaying him. therefore, it is against law one to revive the syndicate.

that's what i mean when i say defibrillators are not always useful for borgs. you are obligated to heal, but not to revive. this is the way it's always been(?) as far as i know. the same of course goes when using cloning.

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bandit
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Re: mediborg

Postby bandit » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:19 pm #93937

The answer is neither. Asimov borgs don't give a fuck about dead people. For the sake of Rule 1 they aren't allowed to hide bodies for no reason, but otherwise, a human that is dead is not being harmed and indeed can no longer be harmed. So a defib for a mediborg would be kind of pointless.
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Re: mediborg

Postby duncathan » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:22 pm #93939

It'd be useful for law 2, to help MDs.
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bandit
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Re: mediborg

Postby bandit » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:50 pm #93941

Still don't like it. Defibrillation is powerful and thus should be somewhat rare.
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Re: mediborg

Postby Cik » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:40 pm #93978

>mediborgs
>common
how many have you seen in your last one hundred rounds
not counting me because i'm the only one on the server that plays them

Spoiler:
i don't really care about the defib, just give me portable IVs and a blood generator and i'll be fine

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bandit
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Re: mediborg

Postby bandit » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:02 am #94050

I used to play mediborg before it was ganked with shit-glucose solution
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cedarbridge
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Re: mediborg

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:25 am #94059

Nobody really plays them with any real regularity. Engieborgs and Secborgs are just too useful in comparison and the constant recent changes to medical have kinda gone around the poor mediborg.

Janiborgs still remain the only borg useful after it has been beat to death.

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Gun Hog
 
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Re: mediborg

Postby Gun Hog » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:33 pm #95298

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/9833 Mediborgs now have Trek chems, so they are no longer worthless.

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Re: mediborg

Postby Cik » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:06 pm #95350

aren't trekchems worse at healing though? tbh the whole problem could be fixed simply but doubling the amount of direct brute/burn healing chems in the hypo and then making it dispense 10 instead of 5, that way you would be able to quickly dose people and heal more than one person at once

that and the IV, because you can't heal wounded people without one really. heavy wounds do = heavy bleeding all the time, and if you have low blood you take constant oxy damage and have a healthcap(?) which means that mediborg can't even really heal people in a way that matters unless it's just a scratch.

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Re: mediborg

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:43 pm #95562

Trekchems go in the medbots and medborgs because all of goofball's buffed healing chems are topical-effect, and therefore can't be used by dedicated healing machines
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Re: mediborg

Postby Cik » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:55 am #97023

Spoiler:
spoilered shameful bump for hopeful coder attention


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