/tg/Station 13

Currently the hot new thing while operative is go to either the derelict or the abandoned teleporter and take the board from their instead of purchasing one. Originally operatives couldn't go to those locations when the movable shuttle was added, and it wasn't until recently players started just taking the boards.

Is using this knowledge of a pre placed teleport board to bypass the cost intended? Should the boards or shuttle locations be removed?

What do you guys think about this?

For reference, the cost of the teleport board is 25 tc.

i say that's fair game, if they go out of their way and wade through RNGspace and find a teleporter then props to them, they did a good job

PKPenguin321 wrote:i say that's fair game, if they go out of their way and wade through RNGspace and find a teleporter then props to them, they did a good job

It isn't RNG space anymore since they can just fly their ship there

In the current situation you can as well delete teleporter board from the uplink because acquiring board takes literally 3 minutes, so why would you spend 25 TC's to buy it? I remember some people stealing it stlealthy from the station before executing the main assualt, and this seemed like a much more fair tactic. Honestly, I think operatives shuttle should probably just be able to fly to the station, mining asteroid and the syndie outpost. Teleporter is really powerful and should not be available for free.

Kor wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:i say that's fair game, if they go out of their way and wade through RNGspace and find a teleporter then props to them, they did a good job

It isn't RNG space anymore since they can just fly their ship there

why the fuck can the ops fly to the derelict

Just remove the derelict destination.

This isn't new, like at all. I remember rounds as Ops flying to the comms sat and nicking the board for EXTREME INSERTION.

It's not NEW, but being able to instantly fly your shuttle to the Derelict IS new.

This is a pretty shitty thing, though, since it's basically several minutes of nothing happening for the crew and not really a challenge for the ops.
Actually, I'm not sure how much difference those few minutes make in crew opposition?

Personally I think this is only a problem if the Ops are spending too much time finding and using the teleport boards.

I think we could just stop cutting every neat tactic out of the game.

Stripping every secret out of the game is crappy way to design.

This tactic has led to some of the absolute best ops rounds of all time. This game doesn't need to be perfectly balanced.

Just remove derelict from the destination list. RNG makes it a little harder to get

RNG doesn't balance it. If we want ops to have a free teleporter, let's just give them a free teleporter. More fun for everyone that way. If we don't, sorry derelict teleporter, you've got to go. The current situation where they have a free teleporter but some people don't know about it despite not being told about it is just unnecessarily mean to new players.

Yeah lets remove the station teleporter too because being able to find your way onto the station to grab it FOR FREE is just waaaay too unbalanced better fucking remove it instead.

Or you know, why the fuck did ops get a derelict destination point anyway?

like saegrimr said, just remove ability to go to the derelict, it's too easy. if the op team wants to spend 20 minutes fucking around to find the derelict while R&D puts together high research levels and take the risk of having high level guns deployed against them, that's their business but it's simply too easy. 25 TC is a rather significant firepower uptick effectively for free.

I think things should stay as is. The teleported tactic opens up some fun opportunities that usually aren't worth the 25tc. The small things not everybody knows is part of what makes the game satisfying. I always liked teaching the ops the teleported trick, and hey if they don't know it they can just buy the board.

With this becoming general metaknowledge now, and there being 5 guys per nuke team (+1 if there's a borg, and +1 again if they ever take a pAI), after a little while pretty much every team will have someone who knows about it. There's no reason not to go get the free board if it's so quick and easy to get, especially since it significantly shortens the station's ability to react to ops.

Theres also nothing stopping them from grabbing the plasma can to flood a hall, police baton for iwinmelee, EMP grenade, retro laser, etc etc.
Lets remove all them too.
Hell, scrap the derelict nobody uses it anyway amirite, and certainly nobody uses the teleporter there to get back if they get lost in space or get thrown into a teleporter destination there from various station happenings.

Just remove the destination, and if they want to spend the extra time and RNG to find the derelict through spacing themselves while risking some random engineer out on the solars spotting them then congrats. That's time they could have spent bombing tcomms, the AI, the clown...

That list was in increasing order of importance

Stickymayhem wrote:I think we could just stop cutting every neat tactic out of the game.

Stripping every secret out of the game is crappy way to design.

This tactic has led to some of the absolute best ops rounds of all time. This game doesn't need to be perfectly balanced.

This is 100% how we should be making the game. The insane possibilities and depth are what this game is all about, not balance. Ops get dunked most of the time anyway, let creative teams be creative.

Make standard teleport boards when powered make their teleporter always act as a beacon.

Make the ordered board beaconless.

There risk done.

rdght91 wrote:

Stickymayhem wrote:I think we could just stop cutting every neat tactic out of the game.

Stripping every secret out of the game is crappy way to design.

This tactic has led to some of the absolute best ops rounds of all time. This game doesn't need to be perfectly balanced.

This is 100% how we should be making the game. The insane possibilities and depth are what this game is all about, not balance. Ops get dunked most of the time anyway, let creative teams be creative.

They actually win 50% of the time

Depends on the server population, lower pop Ops almost always win whereas on higher pop Ops usually lose.

Not a big surprise all our scaling could use some work. Diminishing returns in traitors numbers and hard caps on live ops means that low to medium population gets hammered hard and peak gets off scot free.

TechnoAlchemist wrote:I think things should stay as is. The teleported tactic opens up some fun opportunities that usually aren't worth the 25tc.

Having access to a teleporter was deemed to be worth 25tc when it was added. What changed?

If the shuttle can fly to the derelict and so many locations now why is boarding it verbotten?

Arete wrote:

TechnoAlchemist wrote:I think things should stay as is. The teleported tactic opens up some fun opportunities that usually aren't worth the 25tc.

Having access to a teleporter was deemed to be worth 25tc when it was added. What changed?

I'm not the one who deemed it worth that much, and I'm not sure who made it worth that much in the uplink.

The teleporter board was 20 telecrystals before telecrystal values were doubled, so it basically got hugely reduced in cost when that was done.

TechnoAlchemist wrote:I'm not the one who deemed it worth that much, and I'm not sure who made it worth that much in the uplink.

How much do you think it should be in the uplink for? Grabbing items from the derelict is currently zero risk and a very small time investment. Maybe the time investment is worth a few tc, but it's not worth 25 of them. By all means keep the cool little tricks, but don't make knowledge of them worth such a substantial portion of a team antag's resources.

blitzing with a teleporter board is basically a 100% win chance. Getting a board from the derelict, while a little cheesy (why can the shuttle even go there?) doesn't really let you blitz, since it takes a bit of time to plan then go there, go to station etc.

Did the nuke ops teleporter ever get fixed so it didn't need to calibrate? I remember after the calibrate changes came in, every op team that used it would be 50% fly people and just drop dead from radiation.

Remove the board from the uplink, remove unfinished teleporter from the ship. Force ops to use the derelict teleporter if they really want to teleport in, and the station teleporter to get back.

Honestly I think this issue is a moot point, and I personally dislike the idea of removing creative player actions and strategy.

What we need to look into is how do we boost high pop Nuke Op win rates from 10% to around 50%.

it's not that hard to win high pop, if you use powergamer tactics.
AKA:
1) Mauler
2)spam syndie borgs
3)teleport in as fast as possible (you can catch the captain before he's even left his office).

As I said give the nuke ops ordered board advantages over a regular teleporter board instead of scouring space even more. You don't even need to do this a standard syndiborg AI elimination would leave the AI sat teleporter open for teleops anyway.

Pay to get a regular station item was always a bit of a lame duck idea you don't exactly see syndicate toolboxes being bought in the dozens either.

lumipharon wrote:it's not that hard to win high pop, if you use powergamer tactics.

Powergaming makes things easier for yourself? Oh golly gee wiz.

Incomptinence wrote:As I said give the nuke ops ordered board advantages over a regular teleporter board instead of scouring space even more. You don't even need to do this a standard syndiborg AI elimination would leave the AI sat teleporter open for teleops anyway.

Pay to get a regular station item was always a bit of a lame duck idea you don't exactly see syndicate toolboxes being bought in the dozens either.

When I added the teleporter to the nuke ops shuttle they

-Couldn't fly to the derelict or tcomms
-Was no station AI sat/teleporter
-Only spare teleboard that was accessible was in secure tech, which I moved to RD's office so they couldn't grab it for free

Wasn't really a regular station item when it got added