Your ideas for better chem names

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phil235
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Your ideas for better chem names

Post by phil235 » #99127

I know that many people would prefer chemical names to be more descriptive, even if it means less realistic names (anti-toxin VS charcoal), that's why I'm asking for better name ideas for many of the common medical chems listed below. The name needs to give the player some idea about what the chemical does.

- Silver Sulfadiazine: heals burn damage on touch
- Styptic Powder: heals brute damage on touch
- Saline-Glucose Solution: slowly heals brute and burn on ingestion
- Synthflesh: greatly heals brute and burn on touch
- Charcoal: slowly heals toxin damage on ingestion
- Salbutamol: heals oxygen damage and slow down suffocation on ingestiong.
- Mannitol: heals brain damage on ingestion.
- Salicyclic Acid: heals superficial brute damage on ingestion.
- Pentetic Acid: heals toxin damage and radiation (but has a chance to deal light brute damage) on ingestion
- Perfluorodecalin: quickly heals oxy damage (but it mutes your voice) on ingestion.
- Atropine: heals burn, brute and oxy damage in critical patient on ingestion.
- Calomel: quickly purges chemicals in body (but deals toxin damage if you are in good health) on ingestion
- Mutadone: Heals your genetic defects on ingestion.

If you prefer the realistic complex names, tell me.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Cheimon » #99142

EDIT: I went slightly overboard on this post, but I like the idea of better chem names. If I was head coder and people wanted me to do it, this would be how I'd go about it.

I'm a fan of naming conventions that explain what a drug does, but it's not impossible to have complicated names and still make it clear what the medicine does. You'd just need to put a brief description of what the drug does in the examine text of any pill or whatever containing it, so for example Calomel (5u): Purges extra chemicals in the bloodstream, but poisons an otherwise undrugged patient.

Anyway, if drugs are to be renamed it might as well be done right. You don't want to keep flip-flopping on what things are called, players will be happy to learn a new name once or twice but it will quickly get annoying. With that in mind, a medicine name needs to incorporate the method of delivery (injection/ingestion or touch) and the type of damage it heals (brute, burn, oxygen, toxin, brain, cell, eye, ear).

I don't think all complex names are realistic, either. Charcoal, for example, just flat out doesn't make sense. The way it's used in real life is entirely different to the typical SS13 doctor's delivery, so why pretend they're the same? Giving people names of a real drug and having it do something different in real life is a bit of a cheap way to do it.

I would use a series of suffixes (additions after a word) and prefixes (additions before a word) to do this.

Take one in the first spoiler, please ignore, just what I initially thought of.
Spoiler:
So, how about '-amol' is for touch, '-azine' is for injection/ingestion, and '-adone' is for anything else.

Further affixes would determine strength. 'Lite' afterwards denotes if it's the weak counterpart to a stronger medicine, or just weak in general. A strong counterpart to a weak medicine is correspondingly labelled 'plus'.

Meanwhile, the prefix would be the damage type. Burn-, Brut-, Toxi-, Oxy- and so on.

Silver Sulf: Burnamol.

Styptic: Brutamol.

Saline-Glucose: Burn-brutazine lite.

Synthflesh: Burn-brutamol.

Charcoal: Toxizine lite.

Salbutamol: Oxyzine lite.

Mannitol: Brainazine.

Salicyclic: Brutazine lite.

Pentetic Acid: Toxi-radazine.

Perfluorodecalin: Oxyzine plus.

Atropine: Critazine (I'm assuming it heals critted people based on your description).

Calomel: Toxizine plus.

Mutadone: Genetizine.


Good things about this system: very clear what a drug does and how to deliver it, much more so than in previous editions.

Bad things about this system: almost all drugs are ingested, so they all end up being called '-zine'. Maybe it would be better to only have a set suffix for the touch based medicines, given they're quite rare? Also doesn't explain side effects brilliantly. Runs the risk of making a name not make sense if in the future what the drug does changes. Still doesn't give any real expectation of what will happen if you overdose or apply it incorrectly. Wordy for drugs that treat more than one damage type (since Duo-, Tri-, Quad- don't explain what specific damage types it treats).
Take two and what I'd envisage as the way to name all medical chems (I'd be up for naming poisons similarly too, but maybe it's cheating?).
Spoiler:
So, how can we solve the problems with take one? First thing to do is to make the suffixes more descriptive. All touch based medicines are about the same strength, so we're fine with -amol, but we can split ingestion into three categories: weak, strong, and 'one size fits all' (brain damage, for example, might only have one medicine specifically for it). I'd propose, for example, '-alin' for the weak, '-azine' for the strong, and '-atol' for when they're the only one. This also gets rid of 'lite' and 'plus', which aren't that descriptive anyway (saline-glucose is shit, for example, but charcoal isn't...yet both are 'lite'). If it's somehow a tier three medicine, -atol will do.

The second important problem-solver is to make multiple heals sound sexy. Quad- is easy enough if it does all 4 main types. Tri-noTox- is fine if it does three, but not, for example, toxin damage. Then we have medicines that heal Burn&Brute, which is less easy. Flesh? Toxins do affect them. Surface? Not so great. I'm a fan of 'Burbrut-' because it sounds a bit like the naming structure of some real chemicals, while also clearly shovelling in 'burn' and 'brute'.

So with that in mind, we get:

Silver Sulf: Burnamol.

Styptic: Brutamol.

Saline-Glucose: Burbrutalin.

Synthflesh: Burbrutamol.

Charcoal: Toxalin.

Salbutamol: Oxylin.

Mannitol: Brainatol.

Salicyclic: Brutalin.

Pentetic: Tox-radatol (I think this is the only one that does both tox and rad damage, anyway. Could well be wrong, it's a while since I looked at the list, if it's not, it would be Tox-radalin or Tox-radazine, respectively).

Perflurodecawhatsit: Oxyzine.

Atropine: Tri-notoxatol (or just Critatol, or Critazine if we're thinking of Epinephrine as Critalin).

Calomel: Toxazine.

Mutadone: Genetatol.
Anyway, the point of this system is that it's a tiny bit of initial learning about how a chemical is named, and from then on you know exactly what every medicine does, where it fits in the rankings of medicines of its type, and how to apply it to a patient. You can even work out what the name of a medicine should be even if you don't know whether it exists or not, and you can ask your chemist to produce it if you want it (and the chemist can say no, I can't do brutazine, but I can do brutamol). It still doesn't tell you exactly what will happen if you fuck up and overdose someone, or what all the side effects are, but I think it's a hell of a lot more self-explanatory than the other ones. If someone can think of a decent system for suffixes that still sounds suitably medicine-y while being more obvious about how to apply it and how good it is, all the better.

All I'm saying is that this is how I'd do it if I were in charge. I don't think this is the most pressing issue in chemistry development, but since you're asking I might as well give a straightforward answer. Best of all, the medicines still sound like you're on a space station. The structures of naming are still reminiscent of star trek, if not of real life (though I don't know as much as I'd like to about how star trek worked out how they'd name all their medicines).

TL;DR damage types are the first half of the word ('Burn-', 'Brut-') and application is the second half (-amol for touch, -alin for weak ingest, -azine for strong ingest, -atol for top-tier/only ingestable type). Silver Sulf becomes 'Burnamol', Calomel becomes 'Toxazine', Atropine becomes 'Tri-noToxatol'.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by imblyings » #99147

Could we redo some of the recipes while we're at it

Charcoal is a pain to make and pentetic acid may as well not exist due to how finicky the recipe is.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Lumbermancer » #99151

Why not go back to Star Trek naming convention?
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by CPTANT » #99152

Lumbermancer wrote:Why not go back to Star Trek naming convention?
Why not go back to (updated) Trek chem?
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Scott » #99163

Trek chem names would be better, as those are already known.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by mosquitoman » #99166

Charcoal takes 10 seconds to make. Welding fuel+carbon+hydrogen, then water+sodium+chlorine, put it on a heater turned up to the max and bam. Pentetic acid is hard but it's also very good and normally you make it only when you've made everything else. Chemistry requires fast fingers and good timing so you know when the buttons stop lagging after you click them.

I don't agree that the chems need any popamole renaming. If you're a chemist, you can give your meds custom names, so you can have anti-toxin pills and burn heal patches. It's not supposed to be easy for non-chemist players to figure out. What would be handy though is the ability to use a pen on a pill bottle to put a description on it. This and possibly more pill bottles, some boxes for patches (I know you can put them in the pill bottles but just for convenience) and THE FRIDGE SHOULD MOVED BETWEEN THE DESKS.

I might actually code this now that I think of it. Sounds real easy.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by iamgoofball » #99170

We're not going back to trek names because we already have trek chems in the game again.

Please don't do this. The whole point of the names was so that everyone speaks the same language when it comes to chemistry cross server.

Nothing beneficial is gained from Yet another name change, and it just forces us to relearn crap's names for the 50th time, and completely undermines my point of getting us to have something in common with other servers.

If everyone uses the same chem names a new player can play chemistry here and then immediately play chemistry at paradise, yogs, and goon without having to relearn crap.

Don't bring up bay compatibility because bay is the outlier, as they're completely redoing their entire chem system.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by newfren » #99269

mosquitoman wrote:Charcoal takes 10 seconds to make. Welding fuel+carbon+hydrogen, then water+sodium+chlorine, put it on a heater turned up to the max and bam. Pentetic acid is hard but it's also very good and normally you make it only when you've made everything else. Chemistry requires fast fingers and good timing so you know when the buttons stop lagging after you click them.

I don't agree that the chems need any popamole renaming. If you're a chemist, you can give your meds custom names, so you can have anti-toxin pills and burn heal patches. It's not supposed to be easy for non-chemist players to figure out. What would be handy though is the ability to use a pen on a pill bottle to put a description on it. This and possibly more pill bottles, some boxes for patches (I know you can put them in the pill bottles but just for convenience) and THE FRIDGE SHOULD MOVED BETWEEN THE DESKS.

I might actually code this now that I think of it. Sounds real easy.
Charcoal takes more time than basically every other simple healing drug to make except for salbutamol, which is hilariously complicated when you can just make perfluorodecalin instead. It's still pretty easy to make compared to more complex stuff though, but you tend to want to make 20-30 unit pills of it for serious toxin healing.

Pill bottles can be labelled with the hand labeller that sits on the metal desks in chemistry. What I want is a few different sprites for pill bottles (like we have for regular bottles, or shit just different colours) so that when I have a medbelt full of pill bottles each meticulously labelled "Brute", "Burn", etc., it's easier for me to tell what's what when they start getting mixed around with use.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Steelpoint » #99270

iamgoofball wrote:We're not going back to trek names because we already have trek chems in the game again.

Please don't do this. The whole point of the names was so that everyone speaks the same language when it comes to chemistry cross server.

Nothing beneficial is gained from Yet another name change, and it just forces us to relearn crap's names for the 50th time, and completely undermines my point of getting us to have something in common with other servers.

If everyone uses the same chem names a new player can play chemistry here and then immediately play chemistry at paradise, yogs, and goon without having to relearn crap.

Don't bring up bay compatibility because bay is the outlier, as they're completely redoing their entire chem system.
Frankly my dear that's a poor argument, we're not some minor downstream server we're one of the biggest servers and codebases on offer and we don't need to change our content to other server's interpretations of that content, in addition we can just gut the trekchems since why bother having two chemical systems in the game when one system was added to silence criticism and the other is clearly the main focus of chemistry.

Now on topic, I personally like Trekchem names simply because they are not five syllable long names that sound like unneeded medical jargon. Its easier to say I need Tricord than Saline-Glucose Solution or Bicard rather than Silver Sulfadiazine, it simply rolls off the tongue far easier. If not trekchem then something that's less obnoxious.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by newfren » #99281

Steelpoint wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:We're not going back to trek names because we already have trek chems in the game again.

Please don't do this. The whole point of the names was so that everyone speaks the same language when it comes to chemistry cross server.

Nothing beneficial is gained from Yet another name change, and it just forces us to relearn crap's names for the 50th time, and completely undermines my point of getting us to have something in common with other servers.

If everyone uses the same chem names a new player can play chemistry here and then immediately play chemistry at paradise, yogs, and goon without having to relearn crap.

Don't bring up bay compatibility because bay is the outlier, as they're completely redoing their entire chem system.
Frankly my dear that's a poor argument, we're not some minor downstream server we're one of the biggest servers and codebases on offer and we don't need to change our content to other server's interpretations of that content, in addition we can just gut the trekchems since why bother having two chemical systems in the game when one system was added to silence criticism and the other is clearly the main focus of chemistry.

Now on topic, I personally like Trekchem names simply because they are not five syllable long names that sound like unneeded medical jargon. Its easier to say I need Tricord than Saline-Glucose Solution or Bicard rather than Silver Sulfadiazine, it simply rolls off the tongue far easier. If not trekchem then something that's less obnoxious.
"I need Saline"

"I need Silver Sulf"

Hey turns out if you shorten the names of the new chemicals it's just as easy as shortening the names of the old ones.

Anyway I'm pretty against learning even more names for chemicals.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Steelpoint » #99283

Overall I'm just salty that we ditched the old names when the old names were perfectly applicable to the new chem systems and it would have made the transition far more easier.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Wyzack » #99287

Charcoal is charred wood. Charred. Wood. We inject it into people's bloodstream. Please fucking change this name, I do not care about any of the others
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by phil235 » #99307

iamgoofball wrote: Nothing beneficial is gained from Yet another name change, and it just forces us to relearn crap's names for the 50th time, and completely undermines my point of getting us to have something in common with other servers.

If everyone uses the same chem names a new player can play chemistry here and then immediately play chemistry at paradise, yogs, and goon without having to relearn crap..
I play medical doctor once in a while and even I can't remember which medical chem does what sometimes, even some of the common ones. Players shouldn't have to remember 50 names to begin with. If every chemical name is self explanatory nobody will have to learn anything.

I've started playing quite a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that when I was a newbie in medbay I never had any trouble remembering what anti-toxin, CRYOxadone, CLONExadone, or HYPERzine were used for. On the other hand, it took me a while to remember that brain damage was treated with alkysine or that Arithrazine cured radiation, and Ryetalyn cured genetic defects. The less often a medical chemical is used the more critical its name's explanatory power becomes.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Xhuis » #99316

I definitely don't agree with dumbing down the names to the point of "Brutazine" but I also don't want to have to keep the wiki open in another tab whenever I play a job in Medical. I think it's not the point with confusing names here, as in trekchem we had Tricordrazine, Dylovene, Kelotane, Bicaridine, etc. and people remember what those were because there weren't as many chems. If you ask any chemist nowadays, they can tell you the names of the chemicals that are most needed because there isn't really a point to make any of the others.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Shaps-cloud » #99325

You really don't need to dumb it down that much, there's only a few chems you need to learn. Styptic for brute, silver sulf for burn, epinephrine for stabilizing, salbumentol for oxy, and charcoal for tox damage. The other chems are more situational and aren't brought up as often, but those base chemicals are pretty easy to learn, plus it's neat that you can learn things about real chems from SS13, like I had no idea that the epinephrine that's used in epipens is actually adrenaline.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by MisterPerson » #99333

Xhuis wrote:I definitely don't agree with dumbing down the names to the point of "Brutazine" but I also don't want to have to keep the wiki open in another tab whenever I play a job in Medical. I think it's not the point with confusing names here, as in trekchem we had Tricordrazine, Dylovene, Kelotane, Bicaridine, etc. and people remember what those were because there weren't as many chems. If you ask any chemist nowadays, they can tell you the names of the chemicals that are most needed because there isn't really a point to make any of the others.
What the heck are you on about? Changing a chemical's name isn't "dumbing down".
Shaps wrote:You really don't need to dumb it down that much, there's only a few chems you need to learn. Styptic for brute, silver sulf for burn, epinephrine for stabilizing, salbumentol for oxy, and charcoal for tox damage. The other chems are more situational and aren't brought up as often, but those base chemicals are pretty easy to learn, plus it's neat that you can learn things about real chems from SS13, like I had no idea that the epinephrine that's used in epipens is actually adrenaline.
Removing redundant/irrelevant chemicals is the second pass.
iamgoofball wrote:We're not going back to trek names because we already have trek chems in the game again.

Please don't do this. The whole point of the names was so that everyone speaks the same language when it comes to chemistry cross server.

Nothing beneficial is gained from Yet another name change, and it just forces us to relearn crap's names for the 50th time, and completely undermines my point of getting us to have something in common with other servers.

If everyone uses the same chem names a new player can play chemistry here and then immediately play chemistry at paradise, yogs, and goon without having to relearn crap.

Don't bring up bay compatibility because bay is the outlier, as they're completely redoing their entire chem system.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Tokiko2 » #99675

Synthflesh and synthmeat need a rename, they cause a lot of confusion. Almost everytime I play chef and ask for some synthmeat I'll get a synthflesh patch instead.

That, or make synthmeat a reaction from synthflesh + blood since they seem like they're supposed to be the same thing anyway.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by phil235 » #99681

Cheimon wrote:[...]
I like the suffix idea, it gives info and resemble trekchem names so people won't be too lost. But I think your names are a bit too litteral, I mean, "Burbrutalin" is as litteral as it can get. I'd prefer the names to just evoke its use.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Cheimon » #99713

Tokiko2 wrote:Synthflesh and synthmeat need a rename, they cause a lot of confusion. Almost everytime I play chef and ask for some synthmeat I'll get a synthflesh patch instead.

That, or make synthmeat a reaction from synthflesh + blood since they seem like they're supposed to be the same thing anyway.
*cough* burbrutamol *cough*
phil235 wrote:
Cheimon wrote:[...]
I like the suffix idea, it gives info and resemble trekchem names so people won't be too lost. But I think your names are a bit too litteral, I mean, "Burbrutalin" is as litteral as it can get. I'd prefer the names to just evoke its use.

I suppose the alternative to making the prefixes entirely literal is to pick a new word for each of the four main types of damage. Burn could become Igni-, Tox could be Venem-, Oxy could be Merg-, Brute could be Sang-. (Based on horrible latin for, umm, 'fire', 'poison', 'drown', and 'blood').

IgniSangalin sounds a bit better, I suppose.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Shaps-cloud » #99751

Wyzack wrote:Charcoal is charred wood. Charred. Wood. We inject it into people's bloodstream. Please fucking change this name, I do not care about any of the others
Activated charcoal is actually used as an antitoxin IRL and is even on the WHO's list of essential medicines
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Jacquerel » #99768

Yeah but it's ingested to absorb chemicals, not injected into people. I guess it's really an issue of usage, not name.
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Re: Your ideas for better chem names

Post by Wyzack » #99780

I know, it is pumped into the stomach to prevent absorption, usually for alcohol poisoning. That does not change the fact that we inject it in to peoples veins in-game to treat radiation poisoning. Can we please just change the god damn name
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