Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

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cultist-chan
 
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Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby cultist-chan » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:20 am #99886

My issue is with https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10085 that merged today


Tested stuff a bunch today. I have to say I don't like it at all. Polyacid grenades don't work that well. In fact it doesn't work that well at all now. I splashed a traitor wearing the blood red space suit with 50 or 60 units of p̶o̶l̶y̶a̶c̶i̶d̶ fluorosulfuric acid. Normally he would have his suit fall off and be screaming.

While it disintigrated the c4 in his hand it did nothing to his bag or suit. Grenade tests have been a bit lackluster as well.



I understand that there has to be a "happy medium" and before acid had issues. I don't think that making it so weak that it can't melt through a space suit is a good compromise.

Phil has his stuff together but smoke needs to be re-worked and acid needs to be more dangerous. If you throw sulfuric acid on a person in real life it messes them up.

Fluorosulfuric acid is considered a super acid it has an H0 value of −15.1 compared to −12 for sulfuric acid. In real life fluorosulfuric acid can melt carbon nano-tubes in real life so it strkes me odd that it can't melt a backpack or space suit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcDSngXldB0


Edit tested it with 300 units. Still nope.



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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby Incomptinence » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:23 pm #100030

We rarely seem to find a happy middle ground with acids either it is useless or a near assured game ending weapon. At least destroying masks is what I want really it allows silly stuff like melting peoples internals off so they suck in deadly smoke or gas.

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby cultist-chan » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:53 pm #100088

Incomptinence wrote:We rarely seem to find a happy middle ground with acids either it is useless or a near assured game ending weapon. At least destroying masks is what I want really it allows silly stuff like melting peoples internals off so they suck in deadly smoke or gas.


2-3 good acid grenades (IE with mutagen and chloral hydrate) take about the same time it would to set up 5 bombs in science. Not to mention a acid grenade can be easily dodged unless it is a "suicide grenade".

They are less useful than bombs.

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby Scones » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:55 pm #100089

I was under the impression nuke suits were in fact acid immune.

Chemistry is horridly strong right now and does not need QoL buffs to grenades of all things. Use foam.
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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby cultist-chan » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:57 pm #100093

Scones wrote:I was under the impression nuke suits were in fact acid immune.

Chemistry is horridly strong right now and does not need QoL buffs to grenades of all things. Use foam.



Nuke suits were never immune. Chem isn't horridly strong. Acid should burn through stuff. What would you suggest I use?

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby lumipharon » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:41 pm #100192

Touch based reagents have always been a problem (acid/mutagen) compared to other chemicals. This is soley due how smoke (and more recently foam) lets you spam infinite touch reactions in 1-2 seconds.
Other chemicals can be quite powerful in foam/smoke nades, but they lack the instan ggnore of the above chems, and because of that, get completely overshadowed.

For example, with prenerf smoke, a lexorine smoke nade was neat as fuck - it would knock out anyone that ran into the smoke, and would kill them unless they got treatment quickly. But why would I ever use that when I could make an acid smoke nade twice as fast, which will instant kill you and melt everything you have?

As for the nerf to smoke and foam that just happened, apparently it's so shit now that you effectively cannot do anything with it at all. So honk.

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby Amelius » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:40 am #100999

As an avid chem player, I'll have to try this out, but I will say a stock in of 4-6 high quality foam grenades takes me, a very fast worker, 30 min to make. By the sounds of things, I may as well hit any other department up, or rush basic phlog/napalm syringes instead of bothering making any. Bombs are better and take minutes with a low skill cap, just like almost anything in R&D, cargo, viro, robotics, etc. now.

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby oranges » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:14 am #101280

You come across as mad that your super weapon got taken away.

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby Amelius » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:06 pm #101452

oranges wrote:You come across as mad that your super weapon got taken away.


No, I'm mad that you made chem grenades a waste of time when they were a massive timesink, limited in number/consumable, didn't do station damage usually, and were easily escapable when one was thrown if you paid attention, and required skill, planning, and time to create a decent one. Compared to literally any other job on the station, sans lawyer and Iibrarian, you can easily acquire far more powerful equipment with a tenth the competence and much less time or risk.

Hell, it's pretty obvious if you're making them anyway, given you can tell bottle contents from afar, and you're in a public area.

Change is shit and just basically removes the viability of more departmental antag potential. It's like if you put toxins in the middle of the bar, nerfed the max explosive radius to 3x3, and taunted anyone that uses toxins with 'mad your superweapon got nerfed?'

Votes said folks wanted the game to be more lethal, yet we're putting on kiddie gloves. A+ work. Best example of 'I was kil!ed by this, pls nerf' in recent memory.

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby Tokiko2 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:42 am #101533

I find foam very weak now. The dillution is really severe and removed a lot of potential creative applications. I do like the acid nerf however.

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby oranges » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:57 am #101559

Amelius wrote:
oranges wrote:You come across as mad that your super weapon got taken away.


No, I'm mad that you made chem grenades a waste of time when they were a massive timesink


I didn't do it.

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby Bluespace » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:22 pm #101579

This is an unneeded nerf to traitor chemists.
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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby phil235 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:47 pm #102947

I made a PR buffing the chem smoke effects. It should quadruple the effect on touch.
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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby Amelius » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:38 am #103844

phil235 wrote:I made a PR buffing the chem smoke effects. It should quadruple the effect on touch.


Only smoke? Not foam?

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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby CPTANT » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:18 pm #103938

Bluespace wrote:This is an unneeded nerf to traitor chemists.



This.

traitor chemists aren't that powerful, powerful smoke nades were their ace card. Now they aren't left with much.
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Re: Regarding Acid+Smoke Nerf/Revamp that happened today

Postby phil235 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:43 pm #103945

Amelius wrote:
phil235 wrote:I made a PR buffing the chem smoke effects. It should quadruple the effect on touch.


Only smoke? Not foam?


Both actually
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