The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:20 am #104169

Spoiler:

Countless tasers and disarm spam from two people wasn't enough to drop a single gangster in a tacticool turtleneck.
This is a problem that needs addressed, because a large part of the problem is that the RNG for shots do not move between targetable areas worth a shit, so you hit that damage cap and it's not enough to stop someone with minimum armor, and a health virus, a big part of this is the officer never switching targets (I was honky) but the kicks surely should have done something, there was NINE of them count yourself.

One laser in the left arm
Nine lasers in the left leg
One bash with a laser in the left leg
On hit with a laser in the left leg
Another laser in the right arm
Nine kicks

OOC: Eaglendia: Miracles
OOC: Eaglendia: I didn't deserve it
OOC: Eaglendia: That was horseshit
OOC: Wootanon: Eaglendia what the fuck?
OOC: Eaglendia: Virology + gang armor

What kind of armor does it even give you? because I asked and was told ten brute, and that's gotta be wrong.(edit fact checked on github, it's true, but holy fuck)

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:30 am #104172

Likely the damage cap on the limbs helped stop him from going into crit.

If he had a healing virus from virology, then that would have healed him sufficently to keep him out of crit since your attacks were not hitting the head or chest which have no damage cap.

Also I think kicking does not do a lot of damage.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:34 am #104174

Yeah, I said that in the OP, it's that the damage cap saved em.
I'm saying either that damage cap needs to be below crit, or someone needs to up the RNG to lasers, because this was horseshit.
Even according to the one who profited from it, it was called horse shit.

Pick one, code it. Because that's fucking ridonkulous.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:34 am #104175

I do agree the damage cap on limbs should go, since I fail to see what purpose it servers.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:38 am #104176

Honestly, at that point Eagle should have dropped by virtue of having a leg made of charcoal.
And it's been this way for a long ass time. I fucked myself with it hard when I first learned about it, and I lost a fight that by all rights should have been over by a landslide, twice now due to this feature.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:49 am #104180

Yo a gangster in armor vest + gang uniform is already almost hos-tier armored (WHY GOD)

Triple healing virus stack is an epic meme to boot

Edit: 10? Are you sure? I remember it being 30 or something fucking crazy.

onleavedontatme · Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:52 am

Well, the leg has a damage cap of I think 75, so you lost 5 laser hits there.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:54 am #104186

The RNG targetting in that regard is pretty dumb and considering it adversely affects literally everyone involved combat-wise (sec and antags equally bothered), it might be worth looking into.

Remove the limb damage cap and restore shocks doing limb damage.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:57 am #104189

No HoS tier gangster armor, just the turtleneck

This is Millian MacTavish!
She is wearing a tactical turtleneck.
She has a backpack on her back.
She is holding a hybrid taser in her left hand.
She is holding a blood-stained stunbaton in her right hand!
She has a toolbelt about her waist.
She is wearing some jackboots on her feet.
She has a breath mask on her face.
She has ÿthe captain's headset on her ears.
She is wearing PDA-Millian MacTavish (Assistant).
She has minor bruising.
She has severe burns!

Honestly you could do either or both, but somethings gotta give, RNG to lasers being upped, or limb cap, either would be great.
Or just finish the limb dismemberment I heard about at some point, and allow burns to make people bleed out if they lose the limbs.

Seeing a lot of codertypes here, someone, anyone, solve all my problems! Edit: Also, yes 10, https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-statio ... ndicate.dm

onleavedontatme · Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:04 am

Scones wrote:The RNG targetting in that regard is pretty dumb and considering it adversely affects literally everyone involved combat-wise (sec and antags equally bothered), it might be worth looking into.

Remove the limb damage cap and restore shocks doing limb damage.

I think it was added so you couldn't just attack someones exposed arm forever/ignore their armor.

Honestly though why not just make sec vests cover limbs like the wardens jacket at this point though?

Especially since I lowered the armor value I don't see any harm in giving them full coverage instead of RNG limb combat adventures.

Someone would need to resprite the vests to have shoulder pads/leg bits though.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:09 am #104199

I've been thinking about that recently, I though it'd be neat to have the vests cover your chest, and then the rest of the armor show and be used from the jumpsuit.

Mostly to gimp people who want the cool pew pew, and the sweet armor, but refuse to be security and insist they are the caps bodyguard or something.

Eaglendia · Post by **Eaglendia** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:25 am #104208

That's not a regular tactical turtleneck, it's a gang uniform. I don't have the numbers on that, but I'm pretty sure the energy and brute on it are both at least 10 each if not higher than 10. I had that, the virus stack, and some healing chems going for me.

Bad RNG is one thing but it looks like Miracles was totally aiming at my leg on accident and neither of us noticed (At least I didn't until now); there's no way you'd hit the leg that many times aiming at the chest or head, even with insanely bad luck. It's stupid but that's how it works as of right now; I've been screwed over by it in the past, and I'm sure you have as well.

In hindsight, this scenario isn't quite as bullshit as I thought it was in the context of the game as it is now. What is totally bullshit, though, is the limb damage cap, which needs to be changed so stupid situations like this don't have to be accounted for as part of the metagame; literally no one takes advantage of arms and legs being unarmored by vests and helmets nowadays anyway I'm pretty sure, as it's pretty damn awkward to switch targeting locations in combat when you're probably worried about people trying to kill you, and you could just be hitting your opponent in a location that's guaranteed to kill them anyhow. (Do armored jumpsuits have full body protection? That might also play a role.)

Getting nailed with lasers over and over again and basically just saying "nah, damage cap" isn't something that should happen if your shots are actually making contact. Optimistically this isn't something that needs to be addressed immediately, though, seeing as right now there's just not a whole lot of point at all in targeting locations that aren't head/chest/eyes in combat, and sometime soon we'll get Ricotez's dismemberment, which will hopefully fix the problem properly and permanently.

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:02 pm #104633

Don't just make sec armor willy-nilly full-body. Suddenly their armor is twice as effective since RNGhits no longer matter if they hit appendages or not (which result in roughly double damage up to a cap). That's a pretty severe buff to sec armor that they really don't need.

In other words, that's only viable if you keep the armor nerf that Steelpoint threw in for a limited time (I don't think it's still up, but I haven't played in a while).

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:14 pm #104635

Firstly my armour buff has not been merged.

Secondly, for thousandth time, it has been proven that there is NO difference between RNG armour and logical armour in terms of defence. Mathematically you got the same defence either way.

onleavedontatme · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:52 pm

Amelius wrote:Don't just make sec armor willy-nilly full-body. Suddenly their armor is twice as effective since RNGhits no longer matter if they hit appendages or not (which result in roughly double damage up to a cap). That's a pretty severe buff to sec armor that they really don't need.

In other words, that's only viable if you keep the armor nerf that Steelpoint threw in for a limited time (I don't think it's still up, but I haven't played in a while).

I recently about halved armor values so making them full body now would be a nice alternative to simply bumping them back up, if people want stronger armor again.

Would rely less on wonky damage caps/damage zones.

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:53 pm #104656

Steelpoint wrote:Firstly my armour buff has not been merged.

Secondly, for thousandth time, it has been proven that there is NO difference between RNG armour and logical armour in terms of defence. Mathematically you got the same defence either way.

It's like all the armor nerfs and changes to combat are horrendously fucking shit. WHO KNEW!?

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:52 pm #104670

I'm just saying that either re-buff armor and remove the limb damage cap, or make it full-suited, keep it nerfed and remove the limb damage cap because there's no reason left for it. One or the other.

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:38 pm #104687

Restore old armor values and remove limb damage cap, it works honestly. But I swear last time I touched a wire on /tg/ you could get critted because there wasn't a cap of damage.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:30 pm #104752

How did this become a discussion on shocks?

This is a discussion on very weak RNG on target picking with ranged weapons, and the limb damage cap combining to be ridiculously punishing for no good reason for people who aren't aware they need to swap targets mid fight.

/tg/Station 13

The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor.

The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor.

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