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The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor.

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:20 am
by Falamazeer
Spoiler:
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left arm!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
You shoot yourself in the foot with the energy gun!
Your armor softens the blow!
Honky Honkerton is hit by a laser in the head!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left leg!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left leg!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left leg!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left leg!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left leg!
Honky Honkerton has pushed Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left leg!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left leg!
Honky Honkerton attempted to disarm Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left leg!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the left leg!
Honky Honkerton has pushed Millian MacTavish!
Honky Honkerton has disarmed Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers puts the laser gun (Armory) into the security backpack.
Honky Honkerton has disarmed Millian MacTavish!
Honky Honkerton has disarmed Millian MacTavish!
Millian MacTavish fires the hybrid taser point blank at Krystal Symers!
Millian MacTavish fires the hybrid taser!
Honky Honkerton has disarmed Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers fires the hybrid taser!
Millian MacTavish is hit by an electrode in the left leg!
Krystal Symers puts the hybrid taser into the security backpack.
Krystal Symers has bashed Millian MacTavish in the left leg with the laser gun (Armory)!
Krystal Symers has hit Millian MacTavish in the left leg with the laser gun (Armory)!
Krystal Symers fires the laser gun (Armory)!
Millian MacTavish is hit by a laser in the right arm!
[Common] Tutankhamun Apollo says, "Ai open"
Krystal Symers puts the laser gun (Armory) into the security backpack.
*---------*
This is Millian MacTavish!
She is wearing a tactical turtleneck.
She has a backpack on her back.
She has a toolbelt about her waist.
She is wearing some jackboots on her feet.
She has a breath mask on her face.
She has ÿthe captain's headset on her ears.
She is wearing PDA-Millian MacTavish (Assistant).
She has minor bruising.
She has severe burns!
*---------*
Krystal Symers fires the hybrid taser point blank at Millian MacTavish!
Millian MacTavish is hit by an electrode in the left leg!
Krystal Symers puts the hybrid taser into the security backpack.
Krystal Symers has attempted to kick Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has kicked Millian MacTavish!
Honky Honkerton has disarmed Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has kicked Millian MacTavish!
Honky Honkerton attempted to disarm Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has kicked Millian MacTavish!
Honky Honkerton has pushed Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has kicked Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has weakened Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has kicked Millian MacTavish!
Honky Honkerton has coloured Millian MacTavish in the head with the spray can!
There is no more of spray can left!
Krystal Symers has attempted to kick Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has kicked Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has kicked Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has kicked Millian MacTavish!
Krystal Symers has kicked Millian MacTavish!
Millian MacTavish has pushed Krystal Symers!
The stunbaton is now on.
Millian MacTavish fires the hybrid taser!
Your armor softens the blow!
Honky Honkerton is hit by an electrode in the chest!
Millian MacTavish has stunned Krystal Symers with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has stunned Krystal Symers with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
*---------*
This is Millian MacTavish!
She is wearing a tactical turtleneck.
She has a backpack on her back.
She is holding a hybrid taser in her left hand.
She is holding a blood-stained stunbaton in her right hand!
She has a toolbelt about her waist.
She is wearing some jackboots on her feet.
She has a breath mask on her face.
She has ÿthe captain's headset on her ears.
She is wearing PDA-Millian MacTavish (Assistant).
She has minor bruising.
She has severe burns!
*---------*
*---------*
This is Millian MacTavish!
She is wearing a tactical turtleneck.
She has a backpack on her back.
She is holding a hybrid taser in her left hand.
She is holding a blood-stained stunbaton in her right hand!
She has a toolbelt about her waist.
She is wearing some jackboots on her feet.
She has a breath mask on her face.
She has ÿthe captain's headset on her ears.
She is wearing PDA-Millian MacTavish (Assistant).
She has minor bruising.
She has severe burns!
*---------*
*---------*
This is Millian MacTavish!
She is wearing a tactical turtleneck.
She has a backpack on her back.
She is holding a hybrid taser in her left hand.
She is holding a blood-stained stunbaton in her right hand!
She has a toolbelt about her waist.
She is wearing some jackboots on her feet.
She has a breath mask on her face.
She has ÿthe captain's headset on her ears.
She is wearing PDA-Millian MacTavish (Assistant).
She has minor bruising.
She has severe burns!
*---------*
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the right leg with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
Honky Honkerton has been knocked down!
Millian MacTavish has stunned Krystal Symers with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the right arm with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has stunned Krystal Symers with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the left arm with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
Millian MacTavish has stunned Krystal Symers with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Krystal Symers has been knocked down!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has stunned Krystal Symers with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the left leg with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Krystal Symers in the chest with the stunbaton!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the right leg with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your right leg.
*click*
*click*
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
You fire the uzi!
You fire the uzi!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
Millian MacTavish has hit the ÿÿLabor Shuttle Dock air scrubber #2 with the stunbaton!
You shoot yourself in the foot with the uzi!
Your armor softens the blow!
Honky Honkerton is hit by a bullet in the head!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
Your armor softens the blow!
Honky Honkerton is hit by a bullet in the head!
Millian MacTavish has beaten Honky Honkerton in the chest with the stunbaton!
Your armor has softened a hit to your chest.
Your armor softens the blow!
Your armor softens the blow!
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
Countless tasers and disarm spam from two people wasn't enough to drop a single gangster in a tacticool turtleneck.
This is a problem that needs addressed, because a large part of the problem is that the RNG for shots do not move between targetable areas worth a shit, so you hit that damage cap and it's not enough to stop someone with minimum armor, and a health virus, a big part of this is the officer never switching targets (I was honky) but the kicks surely should have done something, there was NINE of them count yourself.

One laser in the left arm
Nine lasers in the left leg
One bash with a laser in the left leg
On hit with a laser in the left leg
Another laser in the right arm
Nine kicks

OOC: Eaglendia: Miracles
OOC: Eaglendia: I didn't deserve it
OOC: Eaglendia: That was horseshit
OOC: Wootanon: Eaglendia what the fuck?
OOC: Eaglendia: Virology + gang armor

What kind of armor does it even give you? because I asked and was told ten brute, and that's gotta be wrong.(edit fact checked on github, it's true, but holy fuck)

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:30 am
by Steelpoint
Likely the damage cap on the limbs helped stop him from going into crit.

If he had a healing virus from virology, then that would have healed him sufficently to keep him out of crit since your attacks were not hitting the head or chest which have no damage cap.

Also I think kicking does not do a lot of damage.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:34 am
by Falamazeer
Yeah, I said that in the OP, it's that the damage cap saved em.
I'm saying either that damage cap needs to be below crit, or someone needs to up the RNG to lasers, because this was horseshit.
Even according to the one who profited from it, it was called horse shit.

Pick one, code it. Because that's fucking ridonkulous. :salt: :popcorn:

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:34 am
by Steelpoint
I do agree the damage cap on limbs should go, since I fail to see what purpose it servers.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:38 am
by Falamazeer
Honestly, at that point Eagle should have dropped by virtue of having a leg made of charcoal.
And it's been this way for a long ass time. I fucked myself with it hard when I first learned about it, and I lost a fight that by all rights should have been over by a landslide, twice now due to this feature.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:49 am
by Scones
Yo a gangster in armor vest + gang uniform is already almost hos-tier armored (WHY GOD)

Triple healing virus stack is an epic meme to boot

Edit: 10? Are you sure? I remember it being 30 or something fucking crazy.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:52 am
by onleavedontatme
Well, the leg has a damage cap of I think 75, so you lost 5 laser hits there.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:54 am
by Scones
The RNG targetting in that regard is pretty dumb and considering it adversely affects literally everyone involved combat-wise (sec and antags equally bothered), it might be worth looking into.

Remove the limb damage cap and restore shocks doing limb damage.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:57 am
by Falamazeer
No HoS tier gangster armor, just the turtleneck

This is Millian MacTavish!
She is wearing a tactical turtleneck.
She has a backpack on her back.
She is holding a hybrid taser in her left hand.
She is holding a blood-stained stunbaton in her right hand!
She has a toolbelt about her waist.
She is wearing some jackboots on her feet.
She has a breath mask on her face.
She has ÿthe captain's headset on her ears.
She is wearing PDA-Millian MacTavish (Assistant).
She has minor bruising.
She has severe burns!



Honestly you could do either or both, but somethings gotta give, RNG to lasers being upped, or limb cap, either would be great.
Or just finish the limb dismemberment I heard about at some point, and allow burns to make people bleed out if they lose the limbs.

Seeing a lot of codertypes here, someone, anyone, solve all my problems! Edit: Also, yes 10, https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-statio ... ndicate.dm

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:04 am
by onleavedontatme
Scones wrote:The RNG targetting in that regard is pretty dumb and considering it adversely affects literally everyone involved combat-wise (sec and antags equally bothered), it might be worth looking into.

Remove the limb damage cap and restore shocks doing limb damage.
I think it was added so you couldn't just attack someones exposed arm forever/ignore their armor.

Honestly though why not just make sec vests cover limbs like the wardens jacket at this point though?

Especially since I lowered the armor value I don't see any harm in giving them full coverage instead of RNG limb combat adventures.

Someone would need to resprite the vests to have shoulder pads/leg bits though.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:09 am
by Falamazeer
I've been thinking about that recently, I though it'd be neat to have the vests cover your chest, and then the rest of the armor show and be used from the jumpsuit.

Mostly to gimp people who want the cool pew pew, and the sweet armor, but refuse to be security and insist they are the caps bodyguard or something.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:25 am
by Eaglendia
That's not a regular tactical turtleneck, it's a gang uniform. I don't have the numbers on that, but I'm pretty sure the energy and brute on it are both at least 10 each if not higher than 10. I had that, the virus stack, and some healing chems going for me.

Bad RNG is one thing but it looks like Miracles was totally aiming at my leg on accident and neither of us noticed (At least I didn't until now); there's no way you'd hit the leg that many times aiming at the chest or head, even with insanely bad luck. It's stupid but that's how it works as of right now; I've been screwed over by it in the past, and I'm sure you have as well.

In hindsight, this scenario isn't quite as bullshit as I thought it was in the context of the game as it is now. What is totally bullshit, though, is the limb damage cap, which needs to be changed so stupid situations like this don't have to be accounted for as part of the metagame; literally no one takes advantage of arms and legs being unarmored by vests and helmets nowadays anyway I'm pretty sure, as it's pretty damn awkward to switch targeting locations in combat when you're probably worried about people trying to kill you, and you could just be hitting your opponent in a location that's guaranteed to kill them anyhow. (Do armored jumpsuits have full body protection? That might also play a role.)

Getting nailed with lasers over and over again and basically just saying "nah, damage cap" isn't something that should happen if your shots are actually making contact. Optimistically this isn't something that needs to be addressed immediately, though, seeing as right now there's just not a whole lot of point at all in targeting locations that aren't head/chest/eyes in combat, and sometime soon we'll get Ricotez's dismemberment, which will hopefully fix the problem properly and permanently.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:02 pm
by Amelius
Don't just make sec armor willy-nilly full-body. Suddenly their armor is twice as effective since RNGhits no longer matter if they hit appendages or not (which result in roughly double damage up to a cap). That's a pretty severe buff to sec armor that they really don't need.

In other words, that's only viable if you keep the armor nerf that Steelpoint threw in for a limited time (I don't think it's still up, but I haven't played in a while).

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:14 pm
by Steelpoint
Firstly my armour buff has not been merged.

Secondly, for thousandth time, it has been proven that there is NO difference between RNG armour and logical armour in terms of defence. Mathematically you got the same defence either way.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:52 pm
by onleavedontatme
Amelius wrote:Don't just make sec armor willy-nilly full-body. Suddenly their armor is twice as effective since RNGhits no longer matter if they hit appendages or not (which result in roughly double damage up to a cap). That's a pretty severe buff to sec armor that they really don't need.

In other words, that's only viable if you keep the armor nerf that Steelpoint threw in for a limited time (I don't think it's still up, but I haven't played in a while).
I recently about halved armor values so making them full body now would be a nice alternative to simply bumping them back up, if people want stronger armor again.

Would rely less on wonky damage caps/damage zones.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:53 pm
by RG4
Steelpoint wrote:Firstly my armour buff has not been merged.

Secondly, for thousandth time, it has been proven that there is NO difference between RNG armour and logical armour in terms of defence. Mathematically you got the same defence either way.
It's like all the armor nerfs and changes to combat are horrendously fucking shit. WHO KNEW!?

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:52 pm
by Amelius
I'm just saying that either re-buff armor and remove the limb damage cap, or make it full-suited, keep it nerfed and remove the limb damage cap because there's no reason left for it. One or the other.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:38 pm
by RG4
Restore old armor values and remove limb damage cap, it works honestly. But I swear last time I touched a wire on /tg/ you could get critted because there wasn't a cap of damage.

Re: The immortal gangster. Bad laser RNG and holy shit armor

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:30 pm
by Falamazeer
How did this become a discussion on shocks?

This is a discussion on very weak RNG on target picking with ranged weapons, and the limb damage cap combining to be ridiculously punishing for no good reason for people who aren't aware they need to swap targets mid fight.