/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Network lag, Server lag, and client lag are not mutually exclusive things.
Just because one thing is causing one of those things to lag does not mean there are other things causing the other things to lag too.

I think this is a useful discussion to have, so I asked for the thread to be unlocked. But can we please focus on noticed lag situations and not the moderation of the thread.

Inb4 locked or deleted by MSO for bitching about both atmos lag and network lag


The problems: Okay so MSO has explained the Server provider is having networking issues now that he can't resolve on his end. Yes that is fine get a new provider if there is nothing else we can do...


BUT


PROBLEM 2:
LAG FROM FASTMOS AND SINGULO ARE HORRIFIC

Remove the pulling the pipe and wiring out and just go back to singulo eating tiles and not ripping shit apart because the lag is horrific now there were times where singulo was loose and you didn't even know. Now if singulo is loose or atmos is causing massive plasma fires suddenly you know what just happened

Bombadil wrote:Inb4 locked or deleted by MSO for bitching about both atmos lag and network lag


The problems: Okay so MSO has explained the Server provider is having networking issues now that he can't resolve on his end. Yes that is fine get a new provider if there is nothing else we can do...


BUT


PROBLEM 2:
LAG FROM FASTMOS AND SINGULO ARE HORRIFIC

Remove the pulling the pipe and wiring out and just go back to singulo eating tiles and not ripping shit apart because the lag is horrific now there were times where singulo was loose and you didn't even know. Now if singulo is loose or atmos is causing massive plasma fires suddenly you know what just happened

This. It causes a huge amount of lag, along with pipe/wire/etc. deletions. It'd go a long way to making the singulairty not one massive lag device.

Not moving the pipes/wires won't solve anything
it will still move over the pipes and wires, thus deleting them, and triggering powernet rebuilds.

I did a little look around on other servers to see their lag/movement stutter status.

Baystation: Suffers from just as horrid movement lag and lag in general, not as big a deal considering the slower pace of the game but its still a problem.

Goonstation: Surprisingly the movement is smooth and the lag was not that bad, may get worse on higher populations but overall it was smooth.

Aliens Colonial Marines: Surprinsigly the game suffers from little lag and no movement lag at all, this is inpressive considering not only is the code used based on Baycode but the fact that the server seemed to have around 100 players on at the time.

Yogsation: I was there for only ten seconds yet the movement was very smooth and lag was not a huge issue.

Overall from what I can see of the major servers only Bay and /tg/ seem to have this lag problem. I would rank /tg/'s lag slightly higher than Bays.

Steelpoint wrote:I did a little look around on other servers to see their lag/movement stutter status.

Baystation: Suffers from just as horrid movement lag and lag in general, not as big a deal considering the slower pace of the game but its still a problem.

Goonstation: Surprisingly the movement is smooth and the lag was not that bad, may get worse on higher populations but overall it was smooth.

Aliens Colonial Marines: Surprinsigly the game suffers from little lag and no movement lag at all, this is inpressive considering not only is the code used based on Baycode but the fact that the server seemed to have around 100 players on at the time.

Yogsation: I was there for only ten seconds yet the movement was very smooth and lag was not a huge issue.

Overall from what I can see of the major servers only Bay and /tg/ seem to have this lag problem. I would rank /tg/'s lag slightly higher than Bays.

Goon seems to have interaction lag, Movement straight up isn't ever affected. You can zip around without any lag what so ever.

Goon runs at a higher frame rate and a higher tick rate

Remie Richards wrote:Not moving the pipes/wires won't solve anything
it will still move over the pipes and wires, thus deleting them, and triggering powernet rebuilds.

Is it not rebuilding when the pipes and wires are ripped off their anchors?

Because if it is then remember that the gravity field extends about twice, maybe even three times, the size of the event horizon

A solution would be only rebuilding powernets at the start of a tick, so you get one rebuild per tick maximum.

Miauw wrote:A solution would be only rebuilding powernets at the start of a tick, so you get one rebuild per tick maximum.

scedule it right before the atmos calculations.

Do atmos calculations run every tick? If not you have to rebuild the network even less often.

Pipe destruction should just flag the system for a rebuild.

Not a tg code expert but shouldn't changing the network rebuild script to run right before atmos processing be relatively easy?

powernets and pipenets are different things.

and yeah, it's probably not very difficult.

Miauw wrote:powernets and pipenets are different things.

and yeah, it's probably not very difficult.

Eeuh its a problem for both I guess. was thinking of pipenets. But powernets can also just be only rebuild right before the power calculations.

I have a feeling this would will make quite a difference to the cpu spikes experienced during loose sings.

Well we could reduce singulos movement speed too to lower it.

or

Reduce the range it pulls things apart

Imo I think we should be focusing more on the problem that plagues the game 99% of the time.

While the singularity is a big source of lag, that only occurs if it gets loose. Movement lag and other general lag occur irrespective of the singularity's existence.

Steelpoint wrote:Imo I think we should be focusing more on the problem that plagues the game 99% of the time.

While the singularity is a big source of lag, that only occurs if it gets loose. Movement lag and other general lag occur irrespective of the singularity's existence.

exactly.


So, do you want to know what causes the movement lag and a good chunk of most of the general lag?

Take a guess, I've mentioned it quite a few times.

Yeah just the last round, spiders all over the goddamn place but no singulo and no plasma flooding. Same intermittent stuttering and freezing. Strangely lighting broke too for short periods of time.

Saegrimr wrote:Yeah just the last round, spiders all over the goddamn place but no singulo and no plasma flooding. Same intermittent stuttering and freezing. Strangely lighting broke too for short periods of time.

That actually happens when spiders are given enough time to breed. I think its the massive amount of spider mobs made

Bombadil wrote:

Saegrimr wrote:Yeah just the last round, spiders all over the goddamn place but no singulo and no plasma flooding. Same intermittent stuttering and freezing. Strangely lighting broke too for short periods of time.

That actually happens when spiders are given enough time to breed. I think its the massive amount of spider mobs made

Oh yeah definitely, if nurse spiders get to breeding, for every single corpse on the entire station, that's 5 spiderlings, who then grow into giant spiders. Lag city, also spiders are hilarious.

PR up to try and stop the powernet from lagging by removing constant reconstruction thank the based phil

Well I'm happy to report that actual in game movement feels far more smoother now.

The game is still stuttering along don't get me wrong, but now the movement is not actually stuttering.

the jerky movement has been a thing since sanic was removed
have you even played the game in the last three years, steelpoint?

I'm comparing our movement speed with the identical/similar movement speed off of other servers, of which our movement and overall jerkyness is more unique to us than any other server.

The reason it's suddenly noticeable to me is because I've been playing a lot on another server, thus when I log onto /tg/ I easily notice the difference, unlike most people who don't realise since they are used to the current movement.

Well tg runs at a lower framerate than some other servers, so that's what you may be noticing.

Scott wrote:Well tg runs at a lower framerate than some other servers, so that's what you may be noticing.

Perhaps its just that. Why do we run at a lower frame rate anyway?

Steelpoint wrote:

Scott wrote:Well tg runs at a lower framerate than some other servers, so that's what you may be noticing.

Perhaps its just that. Why do we run at a lower frame rate anyway?

We don't.
We run at the original frame rate most of the game's systems were tied to.
other servers either correctly unhooked those systems from the FPS, and then upped the FPS
or they willy nilly upped it without fixing anything.

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/11159

This PR fixes the only thing still hooking us to the fps.

Once it is merged I plan to start testing out higher fpses. but higher fps means more network traffic, so we might not see me raise that up much until after the server move to newyork

It was just merged so yay.

It doesn't seem to be working though

Also I like the old FPS, I'm too used to the cinematic experience

I would really appreciate the higher fps.

Im not familiar with BYONDs internals, yet Im curious as to how higher FPS increases network traffic?

I don't get why people want the higher fps, it -really- doesn't work for SS13, it just looks and feels *bad*

>really doesn't work for SS13

It does work very well for the servers that get it to work. /tg/station is one of the most popular servers that exists, there's no reason to be content at us remaining with subpar performance when we could have better and less jittery movement.

I have never seen a server pull off higher FPS well. Either it jitters and shakes, or it's so unbearably smooth that it looks like the game world is sliding under your feet instead of your character actually moving.

Also why in the world are people deving resource intensive features when we're kind of having a crisis about resources?

Movement feels and looks like shit now.

Steelpoint wrote:>really doesn't work for SS13

It does work very well for the servers that get it to work. /tg/station is one of the most popular servers that exists, there's no reason to be content at us remaining with subpar performance when we could have better and less jittery movement.

I've not visited another server in a long time
all I have to go off of are my own/MSO/other people's adjusting of the FPS var on our servers, and it REALLY just does -not- work.

I don't claim to know how any of this stuff works, but from what I can see, feel and interact with on this server and other servers is that somehow other servers are able to get the game to move smoothly outside of horrible lag spikes (which all SS13 servers eventually get).

Mso was dicking with the settings on basil the other day and it really just looked like shit

The human eye can't see higher than 11 FPS anyway...

hey thats my line

Consistent horrible lag is still persistent I thought you upgraded to a different host MSO? ITS WORSE.

In this case I think it's the code going to shit hasn't been a good freeze in a while