Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

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Danowar
 
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Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Danowar » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:03 am #115374

Now, to start things off, I don't have anything against the table crafting system. What irks me, however, is how some of the cooking recipes, and the procedures to create them, are completely illogical. How exactly does a plain loaf of bread and BOILED EGGS create banana bread? How does throwing raw materials on a baked slab of crust make a fully-cooked pizza? While the creation process on some foods, like burgers and sandwiches, are slightly more logical, I don't understand why the other table crafting recipes don't at least require a second cooking phase and more appropriate ingredients.
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Deitus
 
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Deitus » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:21 am #115376

most of that is just basically "lel spess magik" (see: xenobio, bartender) but i see where you're coming from in that some shit just doesnt seem right. if we're on the topic of revising the kitchen, i personally think that giving small "stat" boosts to specially prepared dishes would be a neat touch, kind of like how you get diabeetus if you eat too much junk food maybe you run slightly faster if you eat all healthy shit. i dunno
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Stan_Studnick » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:47 am #115377

Seeing people try to explain this shit in-character just makes it worse. "Oh you use your hands to cook and wow! it's done!" and then you pop it in the microwave to finish it. Then there's the issue of the old recipes listed on the wiki don't work anymore, fuck if I know how to make eggs benedict because the wiki doesn't explain that at all.

So not only is there no logical place to start so somebody can use basic common sense and intuition to figure it out but the actual documentation on the wiki is lackluster at best.

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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Incomptinence » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:02 am #115380

The precooked ingredient + ingredients = cooked meal shit only makes sense with burgers and some sandwiches. Most things should be after cooked.

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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Screemonster » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:21 am #116630

Having it make things like "uncooked pizza" which you then have to bake afterwards would make more sense.

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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Reimoo » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:46 am #116675

If we're going to complain about lack of sense in the kitchen can we at least point out that someone decided that the chef should use a microwave rather than a stove for everything?

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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby fleure » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:49 am #116713

Deitus wrote:i personally think that giving small "stat" boosts to specially prepared dishes would be a neat touch


This debate happens every couple of months and nothing really comes out of it. Really, a coder just needs to sit down and implement something and see what initial reactions from players are.
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Saegrimr » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:07 pm #116723

fleure wrote:
Deitus wrote:i personally think that giving small "stat" boosts to specially prepared dishes would be a neat touch


This debate happens every couple of months and nothing really comes out of it. Really, a coder just needs to sit down and implement something and see what initial reactions from players are.


The usual end result is "what do you give the player?"
This isn't an RPG type game where you have stats to work with, theres movement speed... aaand that's about it.

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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby AnonymousNow » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:19 pm #116724

I'm personally behind the idea of having dishes which have small bonus effects - we essentially already have that with some raw ingredients (orange juice, milk etc.).

The problem is, the playerbase has developed a tendency in recent years to abuse things like this to no end. For example, Syndicakes (and I think Valid Salad) both healed traitors for the longest time - so there were several instances where crewmen were jumped by security, beaten (sentence up to now is still a normal occurence) and then forcefed these things to see if they got healed, so they'd be valid for execution (which only the captain and Centcom can authorise outside of exceptional circumstances - but hey, we've forgotten that as well).

If it's implemented, then it has to be implemented on such a scale and variety that there's no clear must-make-every-day-break-into-the-kitchen-cook-me-this-specific-thing-or-you-are-a-bad-chef foods.
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby fleure » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:20 pm #116731

AnonymousNow wrote:If it's implemented, then it has to be implemented on such a scale and variety that there's no clear must-make-every-day-break-into-the-kitchen-cook-me-this-specific-thing-or-you-are-a-bad-chef foods.


This is precisely the issue I have with planning a set of buffs. Assuming we did come up with a list of player boons beyond movement speed, there is a good chance that there is a subset of dishes players want all the time, and the chef is going to be lynched if they don't supply an abundance of it. I've never been able to sit down and come up with a list I think are reasonably balanced and yet "low-impact" dishes with regards to gameplay.

Anyway as I said this is a constantly repeated debate, best to stick with the OP here.
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Danowar » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:42 pm #116748

fleure wrote:
AnonymousNow wrote:If it's implemented, then it has to be implemented on such a scale and variety that there's no clear must-make-every-day-break-into-the-kitchen-cook-me-this-specific-thing-or-you-are-a-bad-chef foods.


This is precisely the issue I have with planning a set of buffs. Assuming we did come up with a list of player boons beyond movement speed, there is a good chance that there is a subset of dishes players want all the time, and the chef is going to be lynched if they don't supply an abundance of it. I've never been able to sit down and come up with a list I think are reasonably balanced and yet "low-impact" dishes with regards to gameplay.

Anyway as I said this is a constantly repeated debate, best to stick with the OP here.


You know, why not have it so that every character has a randomly-chosen favorite food, and have that be the dish that gives a small boost? That was the cook won't have to make the same meta dish all the time and botany will have an excuse to grow a wider variety of ingredients.
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Wyzack » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:10 pm #116809

What if the buff was just that you stay sated for longer?
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Danowar
 
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Danowar » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:06 am #116842

CosmicScientist wrote:
Danowar wrote:
fleure wrote:snippery


You know, why not have it so that every character has a randomly-chosen favorite food, and have that be the dish that gives a small boost? That was the cook won't have to make the same meta dish all the time and botany will have an excuse to grow a wider variety of ingredients.

Like how blood type works? Heck if there was also a disliked food too for more variety and this kind of thing put onto your notes automatically at round start...


I'd be down for that. Maybe we could also have favorite mixed drinks and cig brands, too. Doesn't have to be major gamechangers or anything, but having a little extra fluff in the game couldn't hurt any.
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby bandit » Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:44 pm #116996

Unfortunately, unless it is randomly chosen upon joining the round, people will reroll their characters until they get an easy one.
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby ChangelingRain » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:32 pm #117012

Might as well let people choose their favorite dish/drink, because honestly they're not going to all choose one thing to make it easy on the chef/bartender so it won't matter too much.
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby Madjura » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:31 pm #117021

Do the opposite, add allergies
Use virology symptoms for that, at roundstart everyone is assigned 0-3 allergies to random food and a random symptom that triggers when that food (or food containing that ingredient) is ingested
Clown: "Captain I baked you a custom cake"
Captain: "Does it contain apples? I'm allergic to apples"
Clown: "No honk"
Captain eats cake (contains apples), gets hairloss symptom. Honk

Add allergies to medical record file and suddenly medical records have a purpose too, has applications for clowns (and people wanting to be an asshole) and antags

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fleure
 
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby fleure » Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:46 am #117142

Danowar wrote:
fleure wrote:
AnonymousNow wrote:If it's implemented, then it has to be implemented on such a scale and variety that there's no clear must-make-every-day-break-into-the-kitchen-cook-me-this-specific-thing-or-you-are-a-bad-chef foods.


This is precisely the issue I have with planning a set of buffs. Assuming we did come up with a list of player boons beyond movement speed, there is a good chance that there is a subset of dishes players want all the time, and the chef is going to be lynched if they don't supply an abundance of it. I've never been able to sit down and come up with a list I think are reasonably balanced and yet "low-impact" dishes with regards to gameplay.

Anyway as I said this is a constantly repeated debate, best to stick with the OP here.


You know, why not have it so that every character has a randomly-chosen favorite food, and have that be the dish that gives a small boost? That was the cook won't have to make the same meta dish all the time and botany will have an excuse to grow a wider variety of ingredients.


Not a bad idea at all, actually!
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Re: Cooking makes absolutely no sense.

Postby phil235 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:07 pm #120921

Danowar wrote:Now, to start things off, I don't have anything against the table crafting system. What irks me, however, is how some of the cooking recipes, and the procedures to create them, are completely illogical. How exactly does a plain loaf of bread and BOILED EGGS create banana bread? How does throwing raw materials on a baked slab of crust make a fully-cooked pizza? While the creation process on some foods, like burgers and sandwiches, are slightly more logical, I don't understand why the other table crafting recipes don't at least require a second cooking phase and more appropriate ingredients.

The new cooking system being sometimes illogical isn't a choice, I had to find a middle ground to simplify the code. The issue with crafting uncooked food that then needs to be microwaved is that it means a lot of new uncooked sprites for nearly half of the recipes. I'm currently trying to rework the system to fix the logic but I can't seem to find a good solution.

Deitus wrote:most of that is just basically "lel spess magik" (see: xenobio, bartender) but i see where you're coming from in that some shit just doesnt seem right. if we're on the topic of revising the kitchen, i personally think that giving small "stat" boosts to specially prepared dishes would be a neat touch, kind of like how you get diabeetus if you eat too much junk food maybe you run slightly faster if you eat all healthy shit. i dunno


People don't realize that healthy food already gives different boosts, it's explained on the wiki food page. Eating healthy food raise your satiety level (hidden variable, you only get messages when passing thresholds) and with a high satiety level you get a more efficinet metabolism which means better temperature stabilization, less risk to contract contagious viruses, a greater resistance to toxin reagents and an enhancement effect for medicine reagents.
Also healthy food contains vitamin reagent which can heal both brute and burns (better than nutriment reagent).
To be honest this is the only buffs we'll ever be able to give to food&drinks. People's ideas about this either can't be implemented or would create an imbalance somewhere in the gameplay (and potentially abusable).

stan_studnick wrote:Then there's the issue of the old recipes listed on the wiki don't work anymore, fuck if I know how to make eggs benedict because the wiki doesn't explain that at all.

The wiki food page is up to date, if there's one recipe that doesn't work, create an issue report.
stan_studnick wrote:So not only is there no logical place to start so somebody can use basic common sense and intuition to figure it out but the actual documentation on the wiki is lackluster at best.

Nonsense, not only does the wiki have all relevant information but you don't even need the wiki to cook every recipe, the tablecrafting window gives you all the recipes you can make with ingredients and tools to use. And if it wasn't enough, the cook book in the kitchen explain the basics of cooking (how to make dough, cheese, how to tablecraft, how to use the microwave/processor/mixer/meat spike/gibber, how to make custom food. My cooking system is far more intuitive, standardized and simple than the old magic microwave system with no mistakes allowed. Could it be more logical and intuitive? Sure, but coding that is hard.

You know, why not have it so that every character has a randomly-chosen favorite food, and have that be the dish that gives a small boost? That was the cook won't have to make the same meta dish all the time and botany will have an excuse to grow a wider variety of ingredients.

The idea is interesting but where would we put this information for the player to easily find? In his/her notes?
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