/tg/Station 13

so just now we had a round where admins spawned swarmers and we forced the shuttle call
as swarmers start to pop up in more rounds this will be the thread where you can talk about them.

I played as one! You are very weak, but have a decent defense ability in the barriers, traps, and teleports. You come equipped with a slow-firing disabler, as well. Keep in mind that the disabler works through the barrier, whereas enemy projectiles do not pass through it. You are similar to a Replicator from Stargate. You can deconstruct computers and many machines, eat windows, walls, and even R-walls. In the beginning, you must hide and avoid humans at all costs, lest they smack you and end your round. But, if you survive to replicate, you can soon build a team, and through that, become able to deny the humans access to an area while you consume its contents.

Although you are an antagonist, your laws and abilities forbid you altering the atmos or power systems, making it difficult to actually kill people. The crew, on the first trial, referred to them as "ROBOT TERMITES", which is very accurate. Left unchecked, the damage they can cause is extreme. The sections they infect will quickly look like a patched explosion area. As an antagonist, they are as frightening as Syndrones, as they can cripple entire departments in a matter of minutes.

Forbidding them from atmos? Seriously? Plasma floods can barely hold ground now they burn and cool so much faster with fastmos it is pathetic and people are just running across the scorched ground after a few minutes.

It being not allowed to touch power due to singulo stealing all the food makes sense though IC for them.

Swarmers aren't supposed to actually harm people, anyway. Just disable them.

Incomptinence wrote:Forbidding them from atmos? Seriously? Plasma floods can barely hold ground now they burn and cool so much faster with fastmos it is pathetic and people are just running across the scorched ground after a few minutes.

It being not allowed to touch power due to singulo stealing all the food makes sense though IC for them.

Part of the reason for this is that plasma flooding makes them less interesting as an antagonist. The threat from fighting them should be their sheer numbers and reproduction, not simply lol I sit in fire haha fuck you. The nonlethality is more novel at this point.

IC wise the reason you aren't supposed to kill is because after successfully sabotaging most of the station, an invasion force was to arrive to subjugate and enslave any biologicals...which is why when you attempt to eat the Gateway, you're notified that it will be "important later", but their masters are long dead, so their established beachhead goes unused. They don't know that though, so they just go around space eating and eating without stopping.

For the record their laws are entirely fluff and are only an indication on the intended playstyle for the mob type. I do not expect Admins to police swarmers, other than applying the same server rules everyone else gets. If someone finds a way to murder as them, that is a design issue and I will rectify it.

Less I want them to just set people on fire just the engineering department including atmos is enormous and not eating it is silly. If it is just a flavour guideline sure okay.

I had the opportunity to play around as a Swarmer.

If left to operate without interference they can really strip a department down to the bones. Early spawning Swarmer's tend to stick to maintenance and other out of the way areas to build up resources and other Swarmers before moving to bigger targets.

I think its tedious having to pick up each individual sheet from a stack of resources, it would be nice if we could pick them up in bulk or even just the entire stack.

The buildings the swarmer can place provide temporary defence which suits them well.

I did notice a bug where swarmers communicating on the swarm channel will use your name. This can lead to odd scenarios where as a ghost you see yourself talking on the swarm channel

Steelpoint wrote:I think its tedious having to pick up each individual sheet from a stack of resources, it would be nice if we could pick them up in bulk or even just the entire stack.

There's a distinct reason for this; To slow swarmers down, and to enable them to be caught. If you could instantly swoop in from out of nowhere and eat a stack of 50 metal to replicate, it would be just absurd. I originally had it like this locally and it was just too much. By slowing down their "eating" rate, a much more interesting scenario is created, although yes it is a little tedious.

Perhaps I should add a "You got a coin!" sound byte when you turn something to resources. Might break up the tedium. Works for Mario.

Steelpoint wrote:I did notice a bug where swarmers communicating on the swarm channel will use your name. This can lead to odd scenarios where as a ghost you see yourself talking on the swarm channel

This is a known issue and I will fix it within the day.

Appreciate the feedback, guys.

The replicating thing could be refined. Maybe pull players from ghost pool with a prompt or send a message with link in deadchat like for posibrains

I do agree there should be a more effective way of pulling ghosts into a new swarmer shell, right now you have to essentially hope a swarmer conveniently says on the comms that he made a shell in a room.

Swarmers should not be able to eat telecomms whole. The round where we played as swarmers, we consumed the *entirety* of telecomms and left the crew unable to communicate. It's a little thing, yes, but still might bork things up pretty hard.

A swarmer said there was a shell in the Bridge, so I (and probably some other ghosts) double-clicked it. Server hanged for about 20 seconds (OOC: LAG?), then someone actually got inside.

Later, another swamer reported a shell in Tool Storage, so I (and probably some other ghosts) double-clicked it. Server hanged for about 20 seconds, then I got two questions about becoming a swarmer. Pressed Yes to both, then I got a nice full black screen with the Swarmer buttons, which didn't go away even after a relog.

Fun idea, but could really have used some testing with, I'unno, more than one person, looks like.

Braincake wrote:A swarmer said there was a shell in the Bridge, so I (and probably some other ghosts) double-clicked it. Server hanged for about 20 seconds (OOC: LAG?), then someone actually got inside.

Later, another swamer reported a shell in Tool Storage, so I (and probably some other ghosts) double-clicked it. Server hanged for about 20 seconds, then I got two questions about becoming a swarmer. Pressed Yes to both, then I got a nice full black screen with the Swarmer buttons, which didn't go away even after a relog.

Fun idea, but could really have used some testing with, I'unno, more than one person, looks like.

I had the same problem in the first swarmer test round. Ghost to get out of the black screen.

Fonedsky wrote:

Braincake wrote:A swarmer said there was a shell in the Bridge, so I (and probably some other ghosts) double-clicked it. Server hanged for about 20 seconds (OOC: LAG?), then someone actually got inside.

Later, another swamer reported a shell in Tool Storage, so I (and probably some other ghosts) double-clicked it. Server hanged for about 20 seconds, then I got two questions about becoming a swarmer. Pressed Yes to both, then I got a nice full black screen with the Swarmer buttons, which didn't go away even after a relog.

Fun idea, but could really have used some testing with, I'unno, more than one person, looks like.

I had the same problem in the first swarmer test round. Ghost to get out of the black screen.

I'm fairly certain that it's simply the garbage collection check failing when it shouldn't. In the event this happens until I get it fixed, adminhelp, and they should be able to retrieve you from nullspace.

Fonedsky wrote:Swarmers should not be able to eat telecomms whole. The round where we played as swarmers, we consumed the *entirety* of telecomms and left the crew unable to communicate. It's a little thing, yes, but still might bork things up pretty hard.

This is one of those "Maybe, maybe not" things that it was hard to make a call on. I left them able to eat telecomms just to see how things would play out. At the moment I'm leaning towards removing their ability to do this, but I'm taking a hands off approach on swarmers for a small period of time until people learn about their mechanics, and I'll make another call then.

If a blob can do it why shouldn't they?

Personally I think tcoms was a mistake and not worth having anyway.

Being a swarmer while being hunted down by the crew and desperately trying to juke them out is intense as fuck, and is really unique compared to normal gameplay, I really like them

Their laws could be more clear and I personally hate the RNG when breaking certain stuff like Rwalls. Otherwise pretty solid stuff.

The AI seems to be able to simply camera-list the swarmers. Honestly, that feature has always been a little ridiculous.

Aside from a few bugs, I agree with Shaps, running from the hordes of buckshot combat shotguns is fun as fuck, and these should be an event to give otherwise boring rounds a bit of stuff to do not only as a ghost but as a crewmember.

Swarmers kill ripleys in like three hits... bit much no?

Actionb wrote:Swarmers kill ripleys in like three hits... bit much no?

I think they can deconstruct them as "machines".

the only bit I don't like about these fuckers is the warpcuff ability. The past couple of rounds have had a lot of people getting marooned because one of these things gets on the shuttle and just warps people out mid-transit. Hell, in the last round I played, not one person escaped on the shuttle due to a mob of swarmers taking complete control of it. They're like magic xenos on crack.

Danowar wrote:the only bit I don't like about these fuckers is the warpcuff ability. The past couple of rounds have had a lot of people getting marooned because one of these things gets on the shuttle and just warps people out mid-transit. Hell, in the last round I played, not one person escaped on the shuttle due to a mob of swarmers taking complete control of it. They're like magic xenos on crack.

if the swarmers are left unchecked and get in large enough groups to be able to literally "swarm" the station, then I would say that that is intentional and that they've won

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Danowar wrote:the only bit I don't like about these fuckers is the warpcuff ability. The past couple of rounds have had a lot of people getting marooned because one of these things gets on the shuttle and just warps people out mid-transit. Hell, in the last round I played, not one person escaped on the shuttle due to a mob of swarmers taking complete control of it. They're like magic xenos on crack.

if the swarmers are left unchecked and get in large enough groups to be able to literally "swarm" the station, then I would say that that is intentional and that they've won

We were in maint, went from 1 swarmer after they killed the rest, everyone was busy fighting the gangs, we just nommed all of cargo's stuff, then swarmed the shuttle with waves of disablers and teleporting. There were only about ten of us during the shuttle fight, too.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Danowar wrote:the only bit I don't like about these fuckers is the warpcuff ability. The past couple of rounds have had a lot of people getting marooned because one of these things gets on the shuttle and just warps people out mid-transit. Hell, in the last round I played, not one person escaped on the shuttle due to a mob of swarmers taking complete control of it. They're like magic xenos on crack.

if the swarmers are left unchecked and get in large enough groups to be able to literally "swarm" the station, then I would say that that is intentional and that they've won

We were in maint, went from 1 swarmer after they killed the rest, everyone was busy fighting the gangs, we just nommed all of cargo's stuff, then swarmed the shuttle with waves of disablers and teleporting. There were only about ten of us during the shuttle fight, too.

The shuttle is an odd situation. On the one hand, yes, swarmers in a large enough mob can rush the shuttle, assuming that the crew on the shuttle are not well armed, or they spam disablers through the windows. They can still be repelled, but if they're forming up, it's pretty hard (10 is a lot of people!).

On the other hand welding the airlocks into the shuttle shut will 100% block any swarmers from attempting to board it, and there's literally nothing they can do about it no matter how high their numbers are, because they can't break windows to get into the shuttle.

Swarmer sprite is ugly.
They need to not warpcuff people into space.
They need to be able to eat doors.

They can't warpcuff people into space. It's explicitly disallowed.

If we are going for full-on Replicator ripoffs, then Swarmers need some kind of builder-type and tank-type. The builder would assimilate the station and build new structures that are incredibly advanced, like shield generators or cool looking walls/floors/doors. The tanks would just have more health and a lower CD on the disabler, i guess? Maybe some kind of laser-absorbing armor.

Still keep them as non-lethal as possible though. I think thats a neat spin on the antag.

Bluespace wrote:Swarmer sprite is ugly.

i disagree

Bluespace wrote:They need to be able to eat doors.

i agree

Extremely dull to play until you're able to pick up more than one resource at a time.

PickleInspector wrote:Extremely dull to play until you're able to pick up more than one resource at a time.

Really? I find the constant threat of being found exhilarating.
Try heading into populated areas and hitting high usage machines for more of a thrill.














More feedback: allow swarmed to eat floor tiles so even the floor is stripped.

Swarmers do need to be able to eat doors down, maybe make it take a while if we're concerned about balance

Really fun to play as, charging down the hall to the emergency shuttle as a pack with three of your bros ready to swarm and consume. Are asked for quite a bit.

That said they do have a few issues. Once myself and one other player one round ended up in null space for some reason. Eating Tcomms seems a bit much for a 'minor' antag and I think some people found a spot or two they could cause hull breaches. One I was told about was somewhere in engineering maint. And they should be able to eat doors, though I mean they couls just eat the walls to get around still. But other than that I have not noticed anything and they lead to a lot of fun times.

Thus far what I'm expecting to do is:

1. Remove swarmer's ability to destroy telecomms machines
Reasoning: It's effectively impossible to keep swarmers out of it, and stops the crew from rallying against the swarmers too effectively. It's also a significant system for round progression and I think that leaving whether it exists or not to current antagonists in the round is a more interesting situation than if swarmers are effectively guaranteed to take down communications.

2. Remove swarmer's ability to pass through mobs, BUT retain it for passing through other swarmers
Reasoning: Swarmers are already quite capable of juking opponents with decent speed, and the ability to fire disablers behind them to persuade pursuers to go away. Their ability to walk through humans on harm intent was a bit much. That said, I do not want swarmers bumping into each other, which would cause them to screw up mob teleports, dismantling machines etc, so I will keep them walking through each other.

3. [MAYBE] Add a (2 second?) delay to creating a barrier, but leave traps instant.
Reasoning: Barriers are a very effective tool, but I'm seeing them used significantly more as a reactionary tool than a precautionary one. A barrier not only acts a area denial, it effectively increases the HP of a swarmer. In most instances, dropping down a barrier is more effective than using a trap, as both are instant, but the barrier gives you significantly more options. By adding a slight delay to the creation of barriers, they will need to be placed beforehand instead of them being a guaranteed getaway in most circumstances.

4. [MAYBE] Have borgs affected by traps.
Reasoning: I like that borgs scare swarmers and cause them to scatter. I don't like that they can do literally nothing against them, having some small measure that they can use against them should make things more interesting. They're still immune to disablers and melees from Swarmers, of course.

Other notes:
* Not sure why destroying airlocks is so requested, but I will consider it strongly. I simply think it's more interesting that they go through walls.
* Need to fix an issue where hostile mob ranged attacks can't be used to "fly" in space.
* Need to fix an issue where they can cause hull breaches in select spaces on the station
* Need to change the spark effect to one that won't cause a plasma fire
* Need to make a stupid wiki entry for Swarmers

Ergovisavi wrote:Thus far what I'm expecting to do is:

1. Remove swarmer's ability to destroy telecomms machines
Reasoning: It's effectively impossible to keep swarmers out of it, and stops the crew from rallying against the swarmers too effectively. It's also a significant system for round progression and I think that leaving whether it exists or not to current antagonists in the round is a more interesting situation than if swarmers are effectively guaranteed to take down communications.

2. Remove swarmer's ability to pass through mobs, BUT retain it for passing through other swarmers
Reasoning: Swarmers are already quite capable of juking opponents with decent speed, and the ability to fire disablers behind them to persuade pursuers to go away. Their ability to walk through humans on harm intent was a bit much. That said, I do not want swarmers bumping into each other, which would cause them to screw up mob teleports, dismantling machines etc, so I will keep them walking through each other.

3. [MAYBE] Add a (2 second?) delay to creating a barrier, but leave traps instant.
Reasoning: Barriers are a very effective tool, but I'm seeing them used significantly more as a reactionary tool than a precautionary one. A barrier not only acts a area denial, it effectively increases the HP of a swarmer. In most instances, dropping down a barrier is more effective than using a trap, as both are instant, but the barrier gives you significantly more options. By adding a slight delay to the creation of barriers, they will need to be placed beforehand instead of them being a guaranteed getaway in most circumstances.

4. [MAYBE] Have borgs affected by traps.
Reasoning: I like that borgs scare swarmers and cause them to scatter. I don't like that they can do literally nothing against them, having some small measure that they can use against them should make things more interesting. They're still immune to disablers and melees from Swarmers, of course.

Other notes:
* Not sure why destroying airlocks is so requested, but I will consider it strongly. I simply think it's more interesting that they go through walls.
* Need to fix an issue where hostile mob ranged attacks can't be used to "fly" in space.
* Need to fix an issue where they can cause hull breaches in select spaces on the station
* Need to change the spark effect to one that won't cause a plasma fire
* Need to make a stupid wiki entry for Swarmers

good game mode and good work, keep it up

You should add a chance for a swarmer shell to spawn on the Asteroid/one of the space wrecks at roundstart. Even if its just a really damn low chance. Otherwise this fun little antag is going to become like the Chrono Legionnaire and end up never being used.

Could you not just blacklist a few of the telecomm machines? Like the hard to build ones? Im not really sure how Tcomms works, but surely there are a few machines that are easy to rebuild yet disable the network when destroyed? If not then yeah, just blacklist all the Tcomm machines.

Difference is that the Chrono Legionnaire requires a admin to spawn all the tools into the game manually, and its controversial in that its '60 seconds to erase you from the game' gun gets on some admins nerves in a bad way.

Wiki page is up.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Swarmers

I added them to the job page too.
Because for some reason we keep antags there too?

They shouldn't be able to eat tiles that have been gang tagged.

Kinda fucked over every single gang in a round.

So would a singulo shit happens at least gang can potentially build up points with clothing.

Incomptinence wrote:So would a singulo shit happens at least gang can potentially build up points with clothing.

Yeah but that requires gangs to actually go do something about it, This one swarmer just went around only targetting gang signs lol.

Big big big suggestion:

Ways to stun borgs

Remie Richards wrote:I added them to the job page too.
Because for some reason we keep antags there too?

Griffing the station is a full time job

sirnat wrote:Big big big suggestion:

Ways to stun borgs

Nah, a cyborg should be a swarmer's weakness.
They're all ACQUIRE MATERIALS DISREGARD ORGANICS, they need something that can get in there and start going ham on them like they're annoying robotics ants.
For every swarmer that dies, a new one takes it's place anyway.

Borgs are made of metal though, why cant we do damage to them? We can atleast stun biological human beings ;-;

Let swarmers bite borgs to try and deconstruct them. Overconfident borgs should get piranha'd.

>Hit borg enough, turns into endoskeleton and MMI pops out
Do it.

That one round yesterday where the swarmers were fighting the test site blob was amazing. That needs to be a legit round mode.

Takeguru wrote:>Hit borg enough, turns into endoskeleton and MMI pops out
Do it.

Swarmers can still teleport borgs if they ctrl click, and also blob spores and other simple mobs. Really the thing with dealing with these is to just facetank them until they get warped away while your brothers box them in with traps/barricades.