Holoparasites

onleavedontatme · Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:23 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

Does everything in the game really need the same counter strategy though?

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:10 pm #136793

The stun strategy doesn't really work if the user is a Hulk tbh

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:53 pm #136797

> People still think holoparasites are OP.

Maximum keks.

onleavedontatme · Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:54 pm

Anonmare wrote:The stun strategy doesn't really work if the user is a Hulk tbh

Hulk also breaks the game when combod with healing viruses/chems, ablative/shield, space lube, etc.

onleavedontatme · Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:54 pm

Amelius wrote:> People still think holoparasites are OP.

Maximum keks.

They're probably gonna be removed entirely soon unless I nerf them or raise the cost

Incomptinence · Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:47 pm

I don't think they are op per se, I would go with more just a tad strong. Traitor combat stuff should be just a tad strong. More of a fine tuning thing.

Who is talking about putting up a removal pull by the way? That sounds way too extreme.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:07 pm #136808

Amelius wrote:> People still think holoparasites are OP.

Maximum keks.

They are simply better than anything else a traitor can buy.

"kek"

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:36 pm #136811

Kor wrote:
Amelius wrote:> People still think holoparasites are OP.

Maximum keks.
They're probably gonna be removed entirely soon unless I nerf them or raise the cost

Kor please don't.
Or there will be no way for the average traitor to be intimidating, because everything else requires the player to be decently robust, and most players aren't.

Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:57 pm

Zilenan91 wrote:I'm talking like crowds of assistants. One standard versus eight unarmed assistants, and the stand is gonna win if it's not retarded or in an enclosed space. The fact that numbers mean nothing against these (and for one stand, its strength is with crowds) is stupid because everything else about traitors are balanced around there being no allies to the traitor. If they get swarmed, they are dead, and these turn that around and it's shit.

this isnt even true, last night i as the clown along with the mime and another loyal assistant killed Dante when he had a holoparasite

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:03 pm #136816

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Zilenan91 wrote:I'm talking like crowds of assistants. One standard versus eight unarmed assistants, and the stand is gonna win if it's not retarded or in an enclosed space. The fact that numbers mean nothing against these (and for one stand, its strength is with crowds) is stupid because everything else about traitors are balanced around there being no allies to the traitor. If they get swarmed, they are dead, and these turn that around and it's shit.
this isnt even true, last night i as the clown along with the mime and another loyal assistant killed Dante when he had a holoparasite

It all depends on whether you can get stun the host and beat him to death while dragging him away. A (non retarded) holo can make that VERY difficult. Also a traitor can just gear up with other lethal gear. A traitor that has some form of weapon and a holo is a multitude stronger than an armed traitor with basically any other combination of traitor items.

Incomptinence · Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:05 pm

CPTANT wrote: They are simply better than anything else a traitor can buy.

"kek"

The traitor arsenal was lacklustre before they came prompting several sec nerfs. Strong items on traitors is a better choice. Look at the single esword, well known for just being disarm spammed off you then used to beat you to death outclassed by the stun baton and mostly just plonked into a double esword for the deflection on its own the single esword was only really stand out in cloaker or mass slip strategies long ago. It was almost always a finisher. If you are going for a single target I actually find carp to be more effective as they are super cheap and expendable.

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:18 pm #136819

Revolvers are super robust because they can 2 shot people, which is pretty easy to do.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:22 pm #136823

As a concept, I'm cool with holos, but the standard one is just so boring and does too much for its cost.

Incomptinence · Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:29 pm

Standard could just be removed really the statline of the bomb holo is close enough and it has a really fun ability so no point nerfing standard and keeping it.

Crowbar firelock trap is funny as fuck having it pop out again to set their dropped personal items to explode afterwards while a guy tried to act all savvy because he saw my holo do it then blew himself up anyway was funny as hell.

onleavedontatme · Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:16 am

I think I'll remove the standard from the uplink. All the others have a utlity function but the standard is pure random murder for the most part.

ShadowDimentio · Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:23 am

W H Y

W H Y

That's what it's supposed to do! Do you remove the esword because it's only use is to kill? No.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:45 am #136861

But you can stun or disarm people who use an esword. Standard parasites are just flat out better because they can't be stunned, they can eat up stuns, take 50% less damage, can body block for you, and also do only 2/3 of the damage an esword does. They're just better in every way.

Incomptinence · Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:38 am

I'm not quite pro removal just saying it would be pointless to nerf it.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:11 am #141485

Buff the explosive trap holoparasite. Probably by reducing the cooldown on it.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:13 am #141486

Yeah the explosive parasite is hella weak. The way to fix it would be to limit it to one bomb, and make that bomb last forever, not the retarded 20 seconds it is currently.

TheNightingale · Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:23 am

Trapping objects isn't too bad at the moment - it stuns someone, letting the owner jump them. What if it could place different kinds of traps? Ones that do damage and explode, ones that stun everyone nearby, ones that mute, ones that set poison over time?

onleavedontatme · Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:36 am

Saegrimr wrote:Buff the explosive trap holoparasite. Probably by reducing the cooldown on it.

I was thinking of giving it 3 max charges, and having it restore 1 charge per 20 seconds, rather than a straight cooldown.

Stands are pretty much on a knifes edge in regards to being nerfed or removed though so I'm afraid to work on them.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:01 am #141494

TheNightingale wrote:Trapping objects isn't too bad at the moment - it stuns someone, letting the owner jump them. What if it could place different kinds of traps? Ones that do damage and explode, ones that stun everyone nearby, ones that mute, ones that set poison over time?

It doesn't even stun, if it does it's really short. I laid a trap on a locker that clearly had a dead body in it, mime opens it and takes a slight amount of damage and his mask and shoes are blown off. Loads of prep time = Weak pay off while the other stands barely need prep time and get plenty of mileage.

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:05 am #141502

Kor wrote:Stands are pretty much on a knifes edge in regards to being nerfed or removed though so I'm afraid to work on them.

Stands have always been hyper-cool, it's like the STEEL REHN recently added to Ops. These antagonist classes should have powerful, unfair, bullshit ways to kill the average person. Yeah, SS13 is as game about an Assistant almost always having some chance to disarm/rush/kill the uber threat, but an antagonist should be threatening.

And it adds that awesome 'you have a buddy' mechanic, which IMO is a better way to 'get more people involved in a round' then mass conversion antags.

killerx09 · Post by **killerx09** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:24 am #141507

We could make different types of holoparasites cost different amounts of TCs.

Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:23 am

explosive parasite should have a more devastating explosion, kinda like a minibomb but minus the gibbing. it relies entirely on somebody else picking it up independently of you, so it should really have a little more oomph.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:25 am #141514

I think it's fine currently. The explosion as of right now is RnG, meaning it can either do next to nothing or put someone very very close to crit and blow off all their clothes. If it breached floors it would be massively OP because of KOs and pressure loss.

ShadowDimentio · Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:36 am

Hibbles wrote:
Kor wrote:Stands are pretty much on a knifes edge in regards to being nerfed or removed though so I'm afraid to work on them.
Stands have always been hyper-cool, it's like the STEEL REHN recently added to Ops. These antagonist classes should have powerful, unfair, bullshit ways to kill the average person. Yeah, SS13 is as game about an Assistant almost always having some chance to disarm/rush/kill the uber threat, but an antagonist should be threatening.

And it adds that awesome 'you have a buddy' mechanic, which IMO is a better way to 'get more people involved in a round' then mass conversion antags.

Stands are fucking sick why do you want to throw great work away because like two buttblasted people want them removed

Like seriously I've heard no talk of stands being OP outside of some buttblasted assistant getting nuked by one and bitching in deadchat

Incomptinence · Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:46 am

Trick to explosive parasite is that when you get someone with it their clothes get busted and they drop all their shit.

So then you can set their backpack to explode while they are out to be extra mean or I dunno be boring and punch em.

It is really hard to get off though. I had to trick people with crowbars but some item intensive jobs are sorta vulnerable I guess.

Healing up stand damage is maybe a bit too easy, I mean most of the pretty bad incidents a guy hopped up on goofballs and anti-aids burst out of medbay.

ShadowDimentio · Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:19 am

I've murderboned several times and I was never hopped up on drugs. I just wasn't shit and horded tazers.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:50 am #141548

Explosive holo is so ridiculously gimped that I wonder why traitors still choose it. They can only put one bomb at a time, it expires after 30 seconds and doesn't even crit the target (it used to, maybe it was nerfed). This means you have to select something your target will likely use in 30 seconds, wait around until he triggers the bomb, then hope you're fast enough to finish him before he can scream on radio. At this point you can just use any other traitor weapon instead of a very expensive holo, or another holo that comes with better firepower and abilities.

Incomptinence · Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:06 am

I combo'd it with chamo projector and we just kept reapplying it to the trap item when no one was looking.

If you actually trap something people want it is devastating. Blowing their clothes off putting them halfway to crit with a good chance of knock out.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:23 am #141789

The battlecry could be reworked to be less stupid.

Lumbermancer · Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:47 am

Holoparasite is not op, it's just cheap. It's another case of "forced teamplay" that seems to be at the core of tator design philosophy these days.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:50 am #141791

Lumbermancer wrote:Holoparasite is not op, it's just cheap. It's another case of "forced teamplay" that seems to be at the core of tator design philosophy these days.

oh yes, an option that you have to specifically choose in your uplink and that's right next to the dozens of other options that allow you to do things alone is definitely forced teamplay

Lumbermancer · Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:56 am

Not in literal sense of the word, but by making teaming up as traitors much less effortless.

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:10 pm #141799

>an option you can always choose not to take

>force teamplay

>forced

>you can choose not to do it

>FORCED

ShadowDimentio · Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:11 pm

Lets just misuse words so that they make our case sound better