/tg/Station 13

Recently I have been testing IEDs. Frankly... they aren't good at all. I can't back this up with hard numbers but I experimented tonight with the help of SG

Here's what I found.

• IEDs will only affect a one tile radius.
• IEDs will hurt you into "light green" condition if you are 2 tiles away, "yellow" if you are standing right on it
• IEDS are literally worse than a postasium water grenade

With that in mind I would ask the coders to do one of the following to better represent a IED

• Take IEDs out completely: I actually suggest this primarily. It seems that most admins have a problem with IEDs being thrown at the brig and they are a griefing weapon if used by greytiders
• Increase the damage of a IED, If you're going to make a IED make it work correctly. At least make it 3x3 as far as damage instead of 2x2 and let it put someone in the red if they are right on it. Not crit. Just in the red.

Did everyone miss the memo where scaredy said to bring down the hammer of zeus on non-antags who abused IEDs?

IEDs are terrible, not even worth making.
Tested recently on NT Code, they do about 25 damage if you're standing on it. They don't gib corpses(!), they don't do a significant amount of damage to mobs. Currently it seems like they only exist to cause damage to the station, because there is no other viable use of them.

Given that igniters aren't exactly common things (Tech storage? Autolathe?), it stands to reason that IEDs ought to be somewhat powerful. If greytide/griff is a problem, just treat them like bombs and log every explosion. Do welderbombs log explosions and notify admins? They should.

Give me back my ghetto gibbings, make them actual threats in combat, or remove them entirely. At this point I don't care, because there's no point in making them.

they -are- logged.

Psyentific wrote:IEDs are terrible, not even worth making.
Tested recently on NT Code, they do about 25 damage if you're standing on it. They don't gib corpses(!), they don't do a significant amount of damage to mobs. Currently it seems like they only exist to cause damage to the station, because there is no other viable use of them.

Given that igniters aren't exactly common things (Tech storage? Autolathe?), it stands to reason that IEDs ought to be somewhat powerful. If greytide/griff is a problem, just treat them like bombs and log every explosion. Do welderbombs log explosions and notify admins? They should.

Give me back my ghetto gibbings, make them actual threats in combat, or remove them entirely. At this point I don't care, because there's no point in making them.

They don't need to gib. Just at least do SOME damage to someone 3 tiles away at bare minimum. As it stands IEDS are just annoying the admins for no good reason. If they aren't improved just let them be taken out totally.

Igniters can be found in the starting point for assistants.

I'm pretty sure IEDs haven't been changed since they were first introduced, or even at all.

Neerti wrote:I'm pretty sure IEDs haven't been changed since they were first introduced, or even at all.

They've been nerfed. They used to be so powerful they would gib someone.

That was still a long time ago.

The only change to IED's that was made, as far as I can recall anyway, was removing its ability to gib dead mobs. Same with wielder tanks.

The IED has always been something you primarily used to destroy windows and other structures.

Still, its too weak, its not even worthy of being a explosive. You're better off using a welder if you want to actually destroy windows or whatever. In its current state: remove he

It's just a soda can with welder fuel in it I don't know why you expect it to be this minibomb or pipe bomb tier explosion.

Steelpoint wrote:The only change to IED's that was made, as far as I can recall anyway, was removing its ability to gib dead mobs. Same with wielder tanks.

The IED has always been something you primarily used to destroy windows and other structures.

Gibbing was the only reason to use it. Deconning windows has always been faster, ditto walls. Property damage 4nr is the only thing I can think of. Now that it barely even does that, let alone anything resembling a proper weapon?

Not even worth the time it takes to make, outside of running a gimmick. Mutlibelt full of 7 IEDs, box full of seven more, satchel with six sort of gimmick.

why would something that is easier to acquire and make than a potwaterbomb be more powerful than a potwaterbomb

danno wrote:why would something that is easier to acquire and make than a potwaterbomb be more powerful than a potwaterbomb

How powerful is a potwater bomb? How much damage will it do to someone standing at the epicenter? Over 50? Crit? Gib?

If you use bluespace beakers, Bombcap.

IEDs weren't 'nerfed'. Previously even the weakest explosion would gib someone if they were dead, which was fine since sources of explosions were few and far between.
Eventually as more sources of explosions were added, such as welderbombs, IEDs, syndigrenades, gyrojet launchers and clown farts, it became an issue that an explosion that can barely damage floor tiles would make someone blow up into bits, so long as they were dead. It also made no sense that an explosion differentiated between a live human body and a dead human body.

This was a change that effected all explosions, not just IEDs.

And that's good -- there really shouldn't be a 'ghetto body exploder'. A hand-held pocketable device that can be made by any assistant in the few or by cargo in the dozens to be used to permanently remove people from the round is awful. And unlike shoving the body in a closet or whatever, you'll always get away with it since nobody really cares or even notices gib piles.

The only situation I used them in was gibbing changelings and now I have to use the crematory or gibber which is actually a lot more fair than having some random assistant roll up on you with an IED or welderbomb because they feel cold.

While I admit to have used Wielding tanks to gib confirmed changeling's in my earlier days in Security, it was unbalanced and now having to take the changeling to a incinerator/gibber is far more balanced.

IEDs are actually terrible for blowing through windows too. It takes 2-4(haven't tested it recently) to break the brig open.

We should change ieds to act like ghetto incendiary grenades, like a petrol bomb

That's actually an excellent idea.

I think its probably a really easy change too as the make_explosion proc has a fire range parameter

I have said this 50 times, but incendiary grenades (and the napalm reaction) should be an explosion with just the fire part of the explosion, since right now it is so god damn awful.

I will probably open a pull after the freeze ends to make the IED a fire explosion.

lumipharon, can you expand on what you mean with your comment? Are you saying there should be no explosive force, just the fireball?

Mah idea, mah code brah
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/3856

I saw a revhead IED the HOP window, rush him, and kill the head before the round duration had surpassed 15 minutes.