/tg/Station 13

People often complain about Hulk. Don't nerf it into the ground please, it's the only worthwhile power left in genetics.
Cold res is a space suit
TK was nerfed into the ground
X-ray is never gotten by the people who need it
Chameleon makes your body disappear and go uncloned
Shadowmeld does literally nothing. Hulk is the real reason left to do research.
If you want to nerf everyone being hulked, go to old scanners, where you had to be naked to enter them.

hulks don't have law 1

Kor has a pull up to remove hulk and replace it with laser eyes and itemless ventcrawling (finally geneticists can meme around in the vents while shouting racial slurs instead of just chimpering).

Hulks are crazy strong and often feel like complete bullshit when fighting them. But bullshit makes the game interesting, so please don't remove them.

The Chameleon power should be removed when you go crit, like hulk. Now it is more of a death sentence if you ever fall into crit because nobody will ever find you.

Removals and nerfs like this are why people started to get bored with the game and are now desperate to balance antags like Changeling to be fun again. Believe me, things are going to get a lot less interesting with Hulk gone. You may not notice it, you may not miss hulk, but when it happens, you will blame something else.

The more overt and obvious things you remove and nerf, the more you turn this game into a "Same thing, different method" soup.

Gun Hog wrote:Removals and nerfs like this are why people started to get bored with the game and are now desperate to balance antags like Changeling to be fun again. Believe me, things are going to get a lot less interesting with Hulk gone. You may not notice it, you may not miss hulk, but when it happens, you will blame something else.

The more overt and obvious things you remove and nerf, the more you turn this game into a "Same thing, different method" soup.

Why are you still here, Gun Hog? Are you afraid?

Hulks been around since I started playing over 5 years ago.

It's absolutely fine in its current form, with all the crazy bullshit flooding out of science (and getting merged on a daily basis) this is one of the last holdouts for a non-sec/science department having a powerful combat tool.

Counters to Hulk:

1) Literally ANY ballistic weapon, detective's revolver put me into red stamina after one shot... I was at walk speed at that point... you try doing ANYTHING with hulk at walk speed.

2) Disablers. They wont stun, but they'll be so goddamn slow it doesn't matter... call for backup, throw tiles at them until they weaken, pull out your laser, whatever.

3) Lasers, 4 shots and hulks gone.

4) Flash, they can't punch a blank white screen.

5) Chemistry has about 20 ways to put a hulk down

6) Throwing anything that embeds, especially spears

I could go on and on with this shit. Your fists aren't much of an upgrade over a telescopic baton and Hulks offers counterplay that's not available anywhere else (lets you fight flashbang cheese, r_wall spam), the new powers look amusing but they do not replace Hulk's place on the station. As both a user and a victim of hulk, they have played a part in making many rounds special and memorable. Seeing a hulk squad try to push into a barrage of gunfire in a gang war, a hulk officer defy the odds against a cult who can't shut him down with talismans, a geneticist who brushes off the magic missile to give Mr. Wizard a beatdown...

This is a bad change.

Security just have to not be afraid to fuck their shit up if they are punching all the walls and/or harming innocents.

Hulks are fine as is. Security has plenty of ways of slowing down or stopping them.

Lumbermancer wrote:Security just have to not be afraid to fuck their shit up if they are punching all the walls and/or harming innocents.

Pretty much this. They're more or less valid if they're running around being a cunt punching out all the walls. Hell they were made non-human just so silicons don't have to put up with their shit anymore when they start punching into the AI core, or care when the rest of the crew lasers the unstunnable retard.

Just confirmed that stamina damage works on hulks you babies.

A couple disabler shots and hulk is now walking. They can't shoot so melee is their only combat option and after 2 disablers shots you're fucking useless.

Another hilarious fact: Unloading the det's revolver into a hulk, even in the chest, will actually crit it because the dehulking sends you into crit from 10hp.

Also reminder that <25hp weakens the hulk with a dramatic stun and permanent de-hulking.

Therefore Hulk's effective HP is 75, 4 lasers = stunned and dehulked.

4 spear jabs, or like 2 spear throws if one embeds.

Oldman Robustin wrote: Stuff.

Pretty much this, if a hulk is giving you trouble just kill it.

CosmicScientist wrote:

Oldman Robustin wrote:Also reminder that <25hp weakens the hulk with a dramatic stun and permanent de-hulking.

So they literally can't become a hulk again or can they ask a geneticist/virologist to hook them up?

Viro can't hook you up with hulk anymore.

Gene can but its the same process as before, they basically have to do the whole 1-1 gene therapy bit (I think I patented this method, please send all licensing fees to my Paypal) to effectively manifest it.

The shitty thing about hulk is that you can hide your hulk status with the right clothes.

And also that you have unstunnability and infinite stun hands that make it so anyone but sec physically can't fight you unless they build a shitton of spears and hope you don't know how to catch things.

If you know someone is a hulk, you can avoid them/run away/deal with them appropriately.

If they hide the hulk, then you got some shitty stunglove tier situation where they can just walk up to you and ggnore you with halkpunch.

Maybe if being a hulk stopped you from equipping exosuits or helmets, because you're too muscular for them to fit? Removing the ability to punch r-walls would help - remember engiborgs can't make these anyway, so it's not too much of a nerf against malf AIs.

Let's just remove Hulk instead of coding in more and more snowflake checks. It causes more problems than it's worth.

zilenan "I wish this game was more like Dota 2" ninetyone died, plz nerf

lumipharon wrote:The shitty thing about hulk is that you can hide your hulk status with the right clothes.

The second you attempt to stun them though, it's instantly obvious that they are a hulk.
Or if they ever talk.
And having hid hulk in clothes, not being able to talk makes life hard.

TheNightingale wrote:Maybe if being a hulk stopped you from equipping exosuits or helmets, because you're too muscular for them to fit? Removing the ability to punch r-walls would help - remember engiborgs can't make these anyway, so it's not too much of a nerf against malf AIs.

How about put back in the ability of RCDs to deconstruct R-walls

Zilenan91 wrote:And also that you have unstunnability and infinite stun hands that make it so anyone but sec physically can't fight you unless they build a shitton of spears and hope you don't know how to catch things.

How does anyone but sec fight mechs?

You don't Helios. You die. The thing about mechs is that yeah they're strong af, but Ion rifles, EMPs, and loads of other things can swiftly end them since they cost so many minerals. Hulks? You can shit out 20 of them and baddaboom the round is fucked.

Zilenan91 wrote:You don't Helios. You die. The thing about mechs is that yeah they're strong af, but Ion rifles, EMPs, and loads of other things can swiftly end them since they cost so many minerals. Hulks? You can shit out 20 of them and baddaboom the round is fucked.

Then make it harder to make 20 of them, and dangerous to the would be power getters.
Old genetic pods, where you were naked and couldn't be heard outside of the pod.

Zilenan91 wrote:And also that you have unstunnability and infinite stun hands that make it so anyone but sec physically can't fight you unless they build a shitton of spears and hope you don't know how to catch things.

Do you even fucking read these threads or you just spout off the same ignorant shit everywhere you go?

If they're fighting antags then those antags have 101 tools to utterly shit on the hulk (holoparasites say hiiii).

If they're the antag fighting crew, then yea they probably deserve a powerful benefit for investing that much time in acquiring hulk instead of doing other antag shit. If they got hulk as part of a handout, then non-antag crew will be able to engage them in an even 1v1.

There's tons of shit that non-sec struggle to deal with, that doesn't serve as a useful threshold for nerfing anything.

Oldman Robustin wrote:

Zilenan91 wrote:And also that you have unstunnability and infinite stun hands that make it so anyone but sec physically can't fight you unless they build a shitton of spears and hope you don't know how to catch things.

Do you even fucking read these threads or you just spout off the same ignorant shit everywhere you go?

If they're fighting antags then those antags have 101 tools to utterly shit on the hulk (holoparasites say hiiii).

If they're the antag fighting crew, then yea they probably deserve a powerful benefit for investing that much time in acquiring hulk instead of doing other antag shit. If they got hulk as part of a handout, then non-antag crew will be able to engage them in an even 1v1.

There's tons of shit that non-sec struggle to deal with, that doesn't serve as a useful threshold for nerfing anything.

>investing all that effort
>genetics is now 15 minutes of sitting at a computer then being able to 1v1 everything in the game but borgs
>it takes 15 minutes to do R&D
>to plasma flood
>to mine mineral points to get phat robusting loot
>takes 15 minutes to get a viro virus if you're not unlucky

A lot of shit in this game takes 15 minutes. If you're going from a pure murderboning perspective, Hulk is god-tier. You can't be stunned, you infinitely stun others and get +10 to punching damage. Hulk is so good, that it has an uncountable number of snowflake checks across the code to prevent you from having godmode. Double eswords, eshields, sleeping carp, etc.
>

You also can't use ranged weapons, while any non hulk can fuck your shit up with a gun (provided you don't have dual sword/ablaitive wombocombo.

It utterly fucks NORMAL crewmembers, or people who don't realise, or expect a sudden hulk punch to the face.

Honestly in terms of combat, I'm ok with hulk.
What I'm not ok with, is hulk + lube and random non antag hulks wall smashing their way all over the station.

lumipharon wrote:You also can't use ranged weapons, while any non hulk can fuck your shit up with a gun (provided you don't have dual sword/ablaitive wombocombo.

It utterly fucks NORMAL crewmembers, or people who don't realise, or expect a sudden hulk punch to the face.

Honestly in terms of combat, I'm ok with hulk.
What I'm not ok with, is hulk + lube and random non antag hulks wall smashing their way all over the station.

Dual Sword is one of the things Hulk lost the ability to use.
Along with yelling every time they would've got stunned
As well as not being able to use guns.
As well as lower chance of breaking R-walls


I think single sword+Riot Shield+Ablative still works though, maybe.

Seriously the people who isolate hulk without picking up CR/TK/Mini to tip you off that they are genetically modified and then disguise themselves in a full skin getup that isn't blatantly obvious, is extremely rare. I have also never seen a hulk catch a spear before.

This is a game of ranged combat thats balanced around Sec v. Antags, not "Grey McShitter v. Antags", if an assistant can't counter your strategy with whatever is laying around the halls, who fucking cares. I'd still put my money on the greyshirt over the hulk if they had anything to throw spam at the hulk.

Increase their sprite size, cause them to rip out of their clothes, and make it so they can only wear gym shorts and maybe shoes.

You're a hulk not broccoli man.

DrPillzRedux wrote:Increase their sprite size, cause them to rip out of their clothes, and make it so they can only wear gym shorts and maybe shoes.

You're a hulk not broccoli man.

Hulk ripping out of their clothes would be a good balance thing and also very thematic.

Hulk is fine as is.

How easy it is to get on the other hand is not, You should not have a rev round be nearly over in 6 or less minutes because hulks punched their way through with a mob behind them just as the first calls of REV start.

Tornadium wrote:Hulk is fine as is.

How easy it is to get on the other hand is not

This is what all the 1v1 honor duel theorycrafting is missing is that there are often quite a few hulks. One is manageable, the whole crew turning into them is just a mess.

I dont know a good way to actually limit the spread though.

Kor wrote:

Tornadium wrote:Hulk is fine as is.

How easy it is to get on the other hand is not

This is what all the 1v1 honor duel theorycrafting is missing is that there are often quite a few hulks. One is manageable, the whole crew turning into them is just a mess.

I dont know a good way to actually limit the spread though.

Genetics should have some form of resource dependency.

Pretty much every resource system we have is a joke

>More resource dependency

>NEEDING OTHER PLAYERS TO NOT BE SHIT

>BECAUSE IT'S WORKED SO WELL FOR R&D

[youtube]umDr0mPuyQc[/youtube]

ShadowDimentio wrote:>More resource dependency

>NEEDING OTHER PLAYERS TO NOT BE SHIT

>BECAUSE IT'S WORKED SO WELL FOR R&D

You dislike RnD not shitting out 10 mechs every round like they did when they had infinite materials before the crusher got nerfed?

Yes.

If someone spends enough time in R&D to make cool toys, they should be able to make cool toys WITHOUT relying on someone to do a shitty job like mining.

I've got an elegant solution:

When hulk is manifested on-station, the security newscasters all delivery a priority update, "A Hulk is detected on-station". This could either be an announcement for the first hulk or it could update every time a new GWAARHHH is born.

This gives security and the AI plenty of time for intervention before some group antag has half its members hulked.

Even then I think the "mass hulk" issue is overstated. It's not easy handing out hulk, the only effective way to do it is have someone on dedicated "hulking" duty and its pretty rare to have someone who has acquired hulk to forgo their own fun in order to advance the team by handing it out. Even still its hard to get the word out about hulk handouts without drawing a crackdown from the AI/Security. I see a round with more than 2 hulks like once a month.

Even STILL, mass hulking would be tolerable for security since you've got a bunch of dweebs running around with 75 effective HP, a single egun or laser would let you take out 3 hulks, and the only way they can damage you is by charging at your face.

The main issue with hulk is the unstunnability, combined with sanic drugs/viruses or armor, makes hulks unstoppable killing machines. They can't be stunned, they can't be hurt, they can't be slowed down.

Xhuis wrote:The main issue with hulk is the unstunnability, combined with sanic drugs/viruses or armor, makes hulks unstoppable killing machines. They can't be stunned, they can't be hurt, they can't be slowed down.

They can be slowed down, from stamina damage
They can be hurt, by lasers, very easily
They can be stunned, in a way, by flashes

There's plenty of ways to regen stamina. I've only managed to kill a hulk with a flashback once because he was cornered and I rushed in to unload an entire laser gun while the flash was in effect.

Hulk got counters but they're few and far in between

MMMiracles wrote:There's plenty of ways to regen stamina. I've only managed to kill a hulk with a flashback once because he was cornered and I rushed in to unload an entire laser gun while the flash was in effect.

Hulk got counters but they're few and far in between

How about any ranged weapon?
They cannot use guns or double-esword

Ablative, riot shields, full-suits, etc.

Plenty of ways to counter.

Hulks can also fill a hallway with lube and run about freely in it while nobody else can do shit.

Saegrimr wrote:Hell they were made non-human just so silicons don't have to put up with their shit anymore when they start punching into the AI core, or care when the rest of the crew lasers the unstunnable retard.

wait, is this legit silicon policy? did not know this, will definitely apply later on

Deitus wrote:wait, is this legit silicon policy? did not know this, will definitely apply later on

Yes, hulks have been nonhuman for many months.

They're human once they dehulk however, so apply harmbaton carefully.

Kor wrote:Hulks can also fill a hallway with lube and run about freely in it while nobody else can do shit.

So can Janitors?

Helios wrote:

Kor wrote:Hulks can also fill a hallway with lube and run about freely in it while nobody else can do shit.

So can Janitors?

Lube =/= water
And don't galoshes slow you down anyway?

Galoshes do indeed apply a mild slowdown.

Hulks are mostly annoying because (a) you don't know they're a hulk if they've dressed properly, (b) they come in numbers if they're just wall-smashers, (c) they have infinitely charged stunbatons for hands, and (d) you have to get out a lethal gun to handle them as security.

Is having to go and arm up to deal with hulks a bad thing? Probably not. Slowing them down isn't useful if you can't run away (say, they're smashing towards a high value area), but it's reasonable to expect security to change their gear for certain threats. Their baton hands are vastly more annoying. There are virtually no downsides to it when you haven't got access to ranged weapons and your opponent doesn't either, which means it's a hard counter to a good 70% of the crew.

MMMiracles if youre going to make up BS to claim Hulks have no counters, at least have it actually be possible in our code.

B-b-ut what if the hulk is in an ablative biosuit with an eshield, sunglasses, with a bag full of EMP grenades, holoparasite, a triple regen+stim virus, and maxcaps wired to security, cargo, medbay, and science set to go off whenever he yells GWAARHH on radio while constantly spraying lube with comms down.

Sheesh.

People complaining about lubehulk have a fair point, but its not about hulk... its about the invisible AOE 10 second stunfield. Anyone who can deal with lube stuns (stimpacks, chemists, changelings, hulks, borgs) can always abuse the shit out of lube and kill the entire station with a little bit of planning and common sense.

Add my "Hulk notice on Security Newscaster" and the arguments about ninja hulks, hulk armies pouring out of medbay, and any other improbable scenarios become moot.

Oldman Robustin wrote:Add my "Hulk notice on Security Newscaster" and the arguments about ninja hulks, hulk armies pouring out of medbay, and any other improbable scenarios become moot.

Honestly just ripping their jumpsuit/exosuit off is more hilarious and does more to keep them from hiding it than spamming a newscaster that nobody reads.