Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objectives.
- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: Shodansbreak
Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objectives.
People care about green text during team antag rounds, and if they don't, they can or will get banned
People care about green text as traitors, if you look at how many traitors actually try to complete their objectives. So why do we have various traitor objectives that aren't a challenge, and do not make the round more interesting.
Why do we have goals that don't make the round interesting, are solved by an emag 2 minutes in, and fail to impress.
Why not have goals that are more difficult, so that if you do manage to accomplish it you feel great. As a traitor, I care more about the few times I've hijacked the shuttle then the multitude of times I stole a slime extract.
This isn't an idea I agree with fully, but I think it is worth discussing what traitor objectives mean to us as players
People care about green text as traitors, if you look at how many traitors actually try to complete their objectives. So why do we have various traitor objectives that aren't a challenge, and do not make the round more interesting.
Why do we have goals that don't make the round interesting, are solved by an emag 2 minutes in, and fail to impress.
Why not have goals that are more difficult, so that if you do manage to accomplish it you feel great. As a traitor, I care more about the few times I've hijacked the shuttle then the multitude of times I stole a slime extract.
This isn't an idea I agree with fully, but I think it is worth discussing what traitor objectives mean to us as players
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
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Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
Make your own fun.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Super Aggro Crag
- In Game PermaBanned
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Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
some people aren't super robust and want greentext just as much as murderbone the whole shuttleman, why shouldn't they have an opportunity
-
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 3:01 am
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Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
You know who found that shit more difficult than killing? Changies.
- iamgoofball
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- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
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Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
I did, that's why steal objectives are so boringiamgoofball wrote:Get good
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
I agree.
Every objective should meet a "does this actually count at antagonism?" test for a non-head crewmember.
Traitor rounds already are among the least enjoyable for me and 50% of it is the fact that half of the people responsible for driving conflict in the round and creating a sufficient critical mass of chaos (IMO this is ESSENTIAL for a decent traitor round, if only one traitor is actually doing overt shit then every door he hacks, person he attacks, area he trespasses gets maximum attention from AI/borgs/sec/heads/validhunters. If you get "maximum attention" I guarantee that your round isn't going to be fun, you either camp out in some false-wall area of maint. or you get dogpiled the moment someones recognizes you. Nothing is more disgusting than doing something like stealing a sec body out of medbay and settling down in some dark corner of maint only to see 3-4 people approaching, you bust out and juke them only to see 3-4 more coming from another direction, yo go full yakety only to realize the AI has bolted every maint exit and now you've got 2 secborgs coming in behind you... one of the worst feelings in the game of when half the station hunts you down and ends your traitor round early for some middle-tier crime. Hitting that critical mass of getting the detective busy at a murder scene, HoS investigating comms, two officers reporting to a cry for help above chapel, another officer and warden responding to a perma breakin, so that maybe just MAYBE when you bash your way into xenobio for some dangerous slime cores - you don't have half the station coming to cave your head in the moment someone complains about you on radio.
Anyway I digress, encourage traitors to do traitor shit (either an act of violence or elaborate sabotage) and I would even reduce the likelihood of getting an "escape" objective and add a few more "glorious deaths".
Every objective should meet a "does this actually count at antagonism?" test for a non-head crewmember.
Traitor rounds already are among the least enjoyable for me and 50% of it is the fact that half of the people responsible for driving conflict in the round and creating a sufficient critical mass of chaos (IMO this is ESSENTIAL for a decent traitor round, if only one traitor is actually doing overt shit then every door he hacks, person he attacks, area he trespasses gets maximum attention from AI/borgs/sec/heads/validhunters. If you get "maximum attention" I guarantee that your round isn't going to be fun, you either camp out in some false-wall area of maint. or you get dogpiled the moment someones recognizes you. Nothing is more disgusting than doing something like stealing a sec body out of medbay and settling down in some dark corner of maint only to see 3-4 people approaching, you bust out and juke them only to see 3-4 more coming from another direction, yo go full yakety only to realize the AI has bolted every maint exit and now you've got 2 secborgs coming in behind you... one of the worst feelings in the game of when half the station hunts you down and ends your traitor round early for some middle-tier crime. Hitting that critical mass of getting the detective busy at a murder scene, HoS investigating comms, two officers reporting to a cry for help above chapel, another officer and warden responding to a perma breakin, so that maybe just MAYBE when you bash your way into xenobio for some dangerous slime cores - you don't have half the station coming to cave your head in the moment someone complains about you on radio.
Anyway I digress, encourage traitors to do traitor shit (either an act of violence or elaborate sabotage) and I would even reduce the likelihood of getting an "escape" objective and add a few more "glorious deaths".
- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: Shodansbreak
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
They do, it is called holoparasites.Super Aggro Crag wrote:some people aren't super robust and want greentext just as much as murderbone the whole shuttleman, why shouldn't they have an opportunity
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
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Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
Make up your own objectives, handicap yourself, try to do your objective with only 20 c4 or somethign.Helios wrote:I did, that's why steal objectives are so boringiamgoofball wrote:Get good
- Anonmare
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
- Byond Username: Anonmare
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
Have you tried making your own fun? Instead of trying to kill your target, protect them instead and fuck with the meta a bit. Go the extra mile and act really antagonistically and follow them constantly but always be ready to jump out with revolver in hand to save them when they're in danger or trying out a bit of roleplay, a shocking concept I know but I pride myself on being ready to face these strange and interesting ideas.
Greentext is a suggestion, not a carved in amendment to the "Ten Commandments And A Bit About This Atmosphere System Roleplaying Simulation Game" .
Or if you're really hard up, trying praying for a different objective and maybe you'll get something really fun like convince the crew they work for the Syndicate or something
Greentext is a suggestion, not a carved in amendment to the "Ten Commandments And A Bit About This Atmosphere System Roleplaying Simulation Game" .
Or if you're really hard up, trying praying for a different objective and maybe you'll get something really fun like convince the crew they work for the Syndicate or something
- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: Shodansbreak
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
Read my opening post. Why should objectives matter in every other mode, be it rev or gang, and you'd be ostracized for not following through, going as far as being banned, but them not mattering as a traitor. The truth is I care about getting green text in all modes. And so do a lot of people if you look at stats and how many people actually do their objectives. If antagonists are supposed to make the round interesting how is someone stealing a hand teleporter interesting? It's notAnonmare wrote:Have you tried making your own fun? Instead of trying to kill your target, protect them instead and fuck with the meta a bit. Go the extra mile and act really antagonistically and follow them constantly but always be ready to jump out with revolver in hand to save them when they're in danger or trying out a bit of roleplay, a shocking concept I know but I pride myself on being ready to face these strange and interesting ideas.
Greentext is a suggestion, not a carved in amendment to the "Ten Commandments And A Bit About This Atmosphere System Roleplaying Simulation Game" .
Or if you're really hard up, trying praying for a different objective and maybe you'll get something really fun like convince the crew they work for the Syndicate or something
- Super Aggro Crag
- In Game PermaBanned
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Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
cjs im gonna venture out on a limb here and say the reason the entire crew tries to hunt you down and ruin your rounds isn't because the other taters aren't doing their jobs its because you're Oldmeme Robustin, a recognizable name and people either think you're a big threat or want to brag about taking you down.Oldman Robustin wrote:words
- Ricotez
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:21 pm
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- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
oh my god how do people DARE to not play the way I want them to play
MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.
Spoiler:
- Cobby
- Code Maintainer
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Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
I've always pictured greentext as the goal, but how I got it should be interesting [in terms of traitorling]. I always shoot for greentext, not because i'm a l33t powergamer, and certainly not because I hate 'roleplay' <implying roleplay is completely ignoring your employers who payed good money for you and the tools you're going to end up wasting by running around murderboning/ 'friendlytraitor' >. In fact, I think if you don't strive to complete your objectives someone else should join with the objective to kill you, the defected syndicate employee.
If there was no point in the objective, then just remove it and put the only objective is to 'cause havoc'.
I personally would like more conflict driven objectives like (X is a name, Y is a number)
If there was no point in the objective, then just remove it and put the only objective is to 'cause havoc'.
I personally would like more conflict driven objectives like (X is a name, Y is a number)
- Kill an entire department
- Ensure someone is alive but brigged in the shuttle's brigging area.
- Steal Y energy-based weaponry
- Ensure X, a fellow syndicate agent, escapes alive // Ensure X, a fellow syndicate agent, does not escape. They may be guarded. [a person gets the first and someone else gets the second]
- Ensure Y other agents complete their objectives.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
I'm speaking from more than just my own character Crag.
I've had many memorable observation moments where a skilled antag was still put into an unwinnable situation because they were literally the only person who was doing anything antagonistic in a 30+ person round. I'm talking "Ling who takes down a warden with nothing but an armblade in maint" and the warden only has time to yell "Help" once on radio and within 30 seconds the AI had brought them up on suit sensors, gave the location to the crew, and 5+ validhunters and security flooded that section of maint and came across his hideout.
Now try the same exercise when plasma is being flooded, there are reports of a rogue borg, APC's are losing power, someone's trying to break into the armory, and a chemist is lubing escape. The AI wouldn't have the time or motivation to look up one "help" on suit sensors and there certainly wouldn't be a validhunter squad rolling in to investigate a single "help" on radio.
Obviously these are two extremes but the takeaway is that low chaos rounds are awful (re: extended) while med-high chaos is necessary for antags to be more than a loot pinata for the crew. Stealing slime extracts and hand tele's is not going to add to the chaos or encourage anyone to engage in chaotic behavior.
Yes you can "make your own objectives" but this isn't about ME trying to find purpose in a traitor round, its about telling the greentext hunters and new players that you're supposed to be an antagonist when you're selected as a traitor.
I've had many memorable observation moments where a skilled antag was still put into an unwinnable situation because they were literally the only person who was doing anything antagonistic in a 30+ person round. I'm talking "Ling who takes down a warden with nothing but an armblade in maint" and the warden only has time to yell "Help" once on radio and within 30 seconds the AI had brought them up on suit sensors, gave the location to the crew, and 5+ validhunters and security flooded that section of maint and came across his hideout.
Now try the same exercise when plasma is being flooded, there are reports of a rogue borg, APC's are losing power, someone's trying to break into the armory, and a chemist is lubing escape. The AI wouldn't have the time or motivation to look up one "help" on suit sensors and there certainly wouldn't be a validhunter squad rolling in to investigate a single "help" on radio.
Obviously these are two extremes but the takeaway is that low chaos rounds are awful (re: extended) while med-high chaos is necessary for antags to be more than a loot pinata for the crew. Stealing slime extracts and hand tele's is not going to add to the chaos or encourage anyone to engage in chaotic behavior.
Yes you can "make your own objectives" but this isn't about ME trying to find purpose in a traitor round, its about telling the greentext hunters and new players that you're supposed to be an antagonist when you're selected as a traitor.
- adrix89
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:14 am
- Byond Username: Adrix89
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
What the fuck?
Since when are traitors anything but griefing scum with a license to kill?
I thought easy objectives was just an excuse to blow up the station..
Since when are traitors anything but griefing scum with a license to kill?
I thought easy objectives was just an excuse to blow up the station..
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
Let people play antag how they want.
Also don't remove steal objectives.
Also don't remove steal objectives.
Spoiler:
- Drynwyn
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:09 pm
- Byond Username: Drynwyn
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
honestly if it was up to me traitor objectives wouldn't even show up at round end
Just "Here's who the traitors were, here's what they bought." You still get objectives, and you're told if you completed them or not, but as traitor/ling, they don't show to the station in general.
Might discourage redtexthunting crewmembers and encourage traitors to do something actually memorable rather than brag in ooc about le ebin greentext.
Just "Here's who the traitors were, here's what they bought." You still get objectives, and you're told if you completed them or not, but as traitor/ling, they don't show to the station in general.
Might discourage redtexthunting crewmembers and encourage traitors to do something actually memorable rather than brag in ooc about le ebin greentext.
In game, I play the A.I Firmware, the French cyborg C.U.R.I.E, Aubrie Allen, and the lizard scum Skulks-Through-Maintenance.
- ShadowDimentio
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- Byond Username: David273
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- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:59 pm
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Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
"redtexthunting" is a thing now? Really?
It never ceases to amaze me how people get riled up over completely rational and expected behavour.
It never ceases to amaze me how people get riled up over completely rational and expected behavour.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
- Byond Username: DemonFiren
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
Validhunters are and always have been shitters.
- Drynwyn
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:09 pm
- Byond Username: Drynwyn
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
There'd still be greentext it'd just be privateShadowDimentio wrote:>REMOVE GREENTEXT
GET OUT
In game, I play the A.I Firmware, the French cyborg C.U.R.I.E, Aubrie Allen, and the lizard scum Skulks-Through-Maintenance.
- Luke Cox
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:52 am
- Byond Username: NocturnalQuill
- Location: Prisoner Transfer Room
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
I wouldn't mind some of the benign objectives being replaced with things that cause a bit more carnage. Things like releasing the singularity, ensuring a survival rate below a certain amount, killing off a specific department, etc. Deploying traitors in 2-person teams could allow for bigger objectives.
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- TGMC Administrator
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- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
It's pretty dumb when 90% of steal objectives are for items that no one will give a fuck about getting stolen, or what no one will know or even care about being gone.
jetpacks: Assistants can walk onto the shuttle with one for zero reason and no one will bat an eye.
handtele: gets stolen by non antags 5 minutes into the round 50% of the time.
Blueprints/cap's medal etc: No reason to guard them at all - the medal is purely decorative, and the blueprints at most canbe used to rename the brig the dildo farm.
Slime core: Become a scientist/hack one door and take one of the 459387593 slime cores they have, wow.
If there was some actual reason to care about what happens to these steal objectives, then they would be interesting, but unless you're a valid hunter, sec or anyone else doesn't have a reason to actually CARE that they can, or have been stolen.
jetpacks: Assistants can walk onto the shuttle with one for zero reason and no one will bat an eye.
handtele: gets stolen by non antags 5 minutes into the round 50% of the time.
Blueprints/cap's medal etc: No reason to guard them at all - the medal is purely decorative, and the blueprints at most canbe used to rename the brig the dildo farm.
Slime core: Become a scientist/hack one door and take one of the 459387593 slime cores they have, wow.
If there was some actual reason to care about what happens to these steal objectives, then they would be interesting, but unless you're a valid hunter, sec or anyone else doesn't have a reason to actually CARE that they can, or have been stolen.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: TheNightingale
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
I doubt even Sec cares about slime extracts. They're not exactly illegal, nor concrete evidence of Syndicate activity.
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
I like the "ensure survival rate below X%", it gives you a lot of flexibility while giving you a realistic objective that promotes antagonism.
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
sounds like
>bomb the station
or
>release the singulo
or
>murderbone
>bomb the station
or
>release the singulo
or
>murderbone
- Luke Cox
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:52 am
- Byond Username: NocturnalQuill
- Location: Prisoner Transfer Room
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
Better than traitors getting greentext and doing nothing for the rest of the round. I'm all for more volatile objectives. Put traitors in teams of 2, and give them objectives that require them to greatly disrupt the station.lumipharon wrote:sounds like
>bomb the station
or
>release the singulo
or
>murderbone
- invisty
- Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 12:02 am
- Byond Username: Invisty
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
Since we track station damage already, couldn't we make that an objective? It gives a lot of sandbox freedom for traitors to make/buy bombs, create chaos as a cover for bombing, atmos floods, singulo releasing, etc.
Mime: Depresso
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- Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 6:53 pm
- Byond Username: Cheimon
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
TheNightingale wrote:I doubt even Sec cares about slime extracts. They're not exactly illegal, nor concrete evidence of Syndicate activity.
There's a point at which there's no reason to give a shit about any thief. That point is normally reached if an hour or more passes, since so many of the station areas are open and so much gear is spread around that really it's a free for all if you want stuff. A plasma tank? A slime extract? The hypospray? There is no reason to perma anyone for having these things, and if there's no reason to perma, there's no reason to care about greentext for this.
Another thing is the hand tele. People are always taking it at roundstart, for parts or just because the AI will let you in (because there's no good reason for it not to). Strictly speaking, an assistant that grabs it should be put in perma (it's a capital crime, you could even execute for it). But would you? Hell no. Just take it back and tell him not to steal everything that isn't nailed down.
The law is better when it makes sense according to the magnitude of the crime. Traitor objectives are better when they flout the law. Someone quietly stealing a slime extract isn't fun for anyone. Not even a xenobiologist will really be that bothered.
- Luke Cox
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:52 am
- Byond Username: NocturnalQuill
- Location: Prisoner Transfer Room
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
I would love to perma the little shits who take the hand tele, but they'll cry in adminhelp and I'll get bwoinked. If that's going to be the case, it would be much better to have all the steal objectives replaced with things that cause far more carnage.Cheimon wrote:TheNightingale wrote:I doubt even Sec cares about slime extracts. They're not exactly illegal, nor concrete evidence of Syndicate activity.
There's a point at which there's no reason to give a shit about any thief. That point is normally reached if an hour or more passes, since so many of the station areas are open and so much gear is spread around that really it's a free for all if you want stuff. A plasma tank? A slime extract? The hypospray? There is no reason to perma anyone for having these things, and if there's no reason to perma, there's no reason to care about greentext for this.
Another thing is the hand tele. People are always taking it at roundstart, for parts or just because the AI will let you in (because there's no good reason for it not to). Strictly speaking, an assistant that grabs it should be put in perma (it's a capital crime, you could even execute for it). But would you? Hell no. Just take it back and tell him not to steal everything that isn't nailed down.
The law is better when it makes sense according to the magnitude of the crime. Traitor objectives are better when they flout the law. Someone quietly stealing a slime extract isn't fun for anyone. Not even a xenobiologist will really be that bothered.
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- Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 6:53 pm
- Byond Username: Cheimon
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
I mean, you should totally be able to do that for the hand teleporter. It's specifically written in space law, just get the captain's approval (not strictly necessary, but it will save you hassle if you get bwoinked). If bwoinked, reply "he was found with the hand teleporter, theft of which is a capital crime in space law, so I put him in perma" and you should be free to go on your merry way. R-right?
- Atticat
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:04 pm
- Byond Username: Atticat
Re: Remove Steal Hand Teleporter, slime extract, etc objecti
Steal objective are for noobs and offer nothing interesting to traitor rounds. One can even argue they take away from them. just my opinion..
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