New New New New New^50 Cult Feedback Thread

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:08 pm #141055

Bottom post of the previous page:

invisty wrote:
Basically, we remove conversion, and turn cult into a magic version of
nuke, with a small team of stealth elite cultists that have to build a
base in the station and sacrifice people in order to build an army of
constructs and get materials to eventually summon Nar-Sie.
A team [gangsters] that have to [secure areas] in the station and [pen] people in order to build an army of [gangsters] and get [influence] to [plant a dominator].
A team [xenos] that have to [secure areas] in the station and [facefuck] people in order to build an army of [xenos] and get [big enough] to [overrun the crew].

All too similar, tbh.

This is my main issue with the mode. I'm fine with overlapping qualities between antags, but each team antag group needs to have a distinct mechanical attribute or feel that makes them unique. For example:
Ops: Carnage and chaos (bombs, shotguns, general mayhem)
Gang: Clandestine operation and bunkering (conversion, setting up a dominator location)
Cult: Building and growth (Sacrificing, building constructs, getting a cult "factory" going)

Right now, it feels like gang with magic.

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:51 pm #141062

I fucking warned you that people wouldn't like it, and now look where you are.

onleavedontatme · Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:05 pm

Rev - hit critical mass via conversion to win
Shadowling -hit critical mass via conversion to win
Gang -hit critical mass via conversion to win
HoG - hit critical mass via conversion to win
Oldcult - hit critical mass via conversion to win

Oldcult overlapped far more than newcult

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:13 pm #141162

Yeah there's actual strategy in current cult. You gotta plan out your forts to be as defensible as possible while attempting to grow your construct army.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:00 am #141181

I like everything about new cult up to the part where the station goes Delta. It feels too forced and un-cultlike. Rework or remove that shit. If a cult can really hide long enough to build a giant ass shell by killing a dozen people, they deserve a silent and swift victory.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:08 am #141182

Zilenan91 wrote:Yeah there's actual strategy in current cult. You gotta plan out your forts to be as defensible as possible while attempting to grow your construct army.

You mean like, in gang?

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:23 am #141185

lumipharon wrote:
Zilenan91 wrote:Yeah there's actual strategy in current cult. You gotta plan out your forts to be as defensible as possible while attempting to grow your construct army.
You mean like, in gang?

In gang, you can just spam recruit pens. In this cult, losing a single cultist can be devastating. Gang is haphazard as fuck and I kind of like it for that. Gives it a unique feel.

With the giant Narsie shell, how about instead of the station going Delta, weird cult shit starts happening all over the station as it starts to wake up, with the occurances getting more intense the closer you get to the shell? You'd get messages about feeling weird when you're far away, and more frequent hallucinations and fainting spells the closer you get. Holy Water or other chaplain items could protect against this, and having to both locate the shell and prepare for the assault will give cult more time. Much more flavorful and interesting, and it makes it feel substantially different from gang or ops.

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:09 am #141205

Luke Cox wrote:
lumipharon wrote:
Zilenan91 wrote:Yeah there's actual strategy in current cult. You gotta plan out your forts to be as defensible as possible while attempting to grow your construct army.
You mean like, in gang?
In gang, you can just spam recruit pens. In this cult, losing a single cultist can be devastating. Gang is haphazard as fuck and I kind of like it for that. Gives it a unique feel.

With the giant Narsie shell, how about instead of the station going Delta, weird cult shit starts happening all over the station as it starts to wake up, with the occurances getting more intense the closer you get to the shell? You'd get messages about feeling weird when you're far away, and more frequent hallucinations and fainting spells the closer you get. Holy Water or other chaplain items could protect against this, and having to both locate the shell and prepare for the assault will give cult more time. Much more flavorful and interesting, and it makes it feel substantially different from gang or ops.

Yeah, like Gellar Field going down shit
Walls becoming a pile of gore and so on. This can be meta'd, but if the comms are down it makes it more difficult

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:10 am #141206

Honestly the defend time is already really really short as is, if it doesn't announce that the cult threw down its win condition it's gonna be really hard for the crew to fight against it.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:22 am #141210

Zilenan91 wrote:Honestly the defend time is already really really short as is, if it doesn't announce that the cult threw down its win condition it's gonna be really hard for the crew to fight against it.

Increase the defend time (5 minutes or so, maybe even more) and make a ton of weird and dangerous shit happen as you get closer to the shell. Gravity turning on and off, hallucinations, fainting spells, EMPs, shades of the sacrifice victims attacking you, etc. Coms and even all radios stop working, and requests consoles short out. It would get more and more intense as you get closer to the shell. Far away, it would be weird. A room or two away from the shell, it would be deadly without some limited form of protection from the chaplain. Once the cult gets to that point, they should have the upper hand.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:56 am #141240

Luke Cox wrote:
lumipharon wrote:
Zilenan91 wrote:Yeah there's actual strategy in current cult. You gotta plan out your forts to be as defensible as possible while attempting to grow your construct army.
You mean like, in gang?
In gang, you can just spam recruit pens. In this cult, losing a single cultist can be devastating. Gang is haphazard as fuck and I kind of like it for that. Gives it a unique feel.

You mean like HoG, with losing the prophet guy?
Losing one guy who is critical to your success, who may or may not be a fucking retard is not good gameplay.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:52 am #141249

lumipharon wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:
lumipharon wrote:
Zilenan91 wrote:Yeah there's actual strategy in current cult. You gotta plan out your forts to be as defensible as possible while attempting to grow your construct army.
You mean like, in gang?
In gang, you can just spam recruit pens. In this cult, losing a single cultist can be devastating. Gang is haphazard as fuck and I kind of like it for that. Gives it a unique feel.
You mean like HoG, with losing the prophet guy?
Losing one guy who is critical to your success, who may or may not be a fucking retard is not good gameplay.

How are the random runes distributed? I wouldn't mind having it so that cultists "buy" runes like traitors buy gear.

TheWulfe · Post by **TheWulfe** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:56 am #141269

I've noticed in a lot of rounds cult usually just sacrifices exclusively braindeads and suicides. It's getting kind of lame for both sides. I didn't like LOLWIN stunpaper, but cult really knows that anyone who's gonna get captured the conventional way will immediately scream out, it sort of forces them to do it.

killerx09 · Post by **killerx09** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:39 am #141271

Why can't we have both currentcult as a lowpop gamemode, and oldcult as a highpop gamemode?

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:05 am #141273

yeah, having to make stunprods as an antagonist is pretty lame.

i've only played it once and we were basically carried by an engineer that put comms on a signaller and handed us all stunprods, but without those you're basically SOL as far as i can tell.

if stunpaper is really as bad as everyone seems to think, it needs to be replaced by something else more fair, but not having something to incapacitate people out of the box isn't really an option.

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:33 pm #141296

TheWulfe wrote:I've noticed in a lot of rounds cult usually just sacrifices exclusively braindeads and suicides. It's getting kind of lame for both sides. I didn't like LOLWIN stunpaper, but cult really knows that anyone who's gonna get captured the conventional way will immediately scream out, it sort of forces them to do it.

This happens for a plethoria of reasons:

1. Mutes are hard to obtain (only in curse runes) and not portable. People may or may not have those runes or apply them in ways that other people want to apply them. Communication barriers in this sense are just frustrating and make general base planning a nightmare. Keep in mind only four letters have to be uttered to fuck a cult - 'CULT!'

2. Stunprods are a required implement to capture anyone for most cults, barring the chemist or doctor here or there.

3. Sacrifice runes are entirely limited by supply papers and the detection of which or the remains will result in a red-alert shuttle call immediately, meaning you essentially have to work out of a central base.

4. The cult starts very small, weak and mostly unexpandable, they have an absurdly difficult effectively unrestartable (you start back at square 1 with a new statue) objective that they have to fufill with severely limited resources, and in order to acquire enough forces to defend for 4~ minutes, it takes around an hour or so, by which BoHs, bombs, and other such equipment will cockblock the cult from any sort of victory.

Stun landmines and such barely help when they only work in combination with veil talismans, and even then you need to back that up with a curse and pray that there isn't another person there. Not there? Cult will be announced and 7 bored sec officers (HoS, 5 officers, and the detective) will converge on your location along with every validhunter on the station. RNG runes are generally awful, especially for core objectives like sacrifices.

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:06 pm #141304

When are we reverting this?

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:18 pm #141344

I think a lot of people seem to be looking at cult the wrong way.

What you need to do is set up a stun rune that's hidden in a maint hallway, then you all need to hide in lockers and shit around it. Wait for some poor fuck to run over it, then you beat him to death before he can react. YOU DO NOT CAPTURE PEOPLE IN NEWCULT

Let me make this clear

YOU DO NOT CAPTURE PEOPLE IN NEWCULT

You murder the fuck out of them then sac the dead body.

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:31 am #141362

Zilenan91 wrote:I think a lot of people seem to be looking at cult the wrong way.

What you need to do is set up a stun rune that's hidden in a maint hallway, then you all need to hide in lockers and shit around it. Wait for some poor fuck to run over it, then you beat him to death before he can react. YOU DO NOT CAPTURE PEOPLE IN NEWCULT

Let me make this clear

YOU DO NOT CAPTURE PEOPLE IN NEWCULT

You murder the fuck out of them then sac the dead body.

And I said that it's impossible to do that sort of thing for four good reasons. I mean shit, four letters is all he needs to get out to fuck the cult, and cultists don't have anything powerful enough to instacrit like that. You have to waste precious supply to place sac runes, so it's not like those are expendable either and thus are placeable throughout the station.

And you seriously think that someone is going to run over a rune if you block only half the sprite given the vibrant colours they use?

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:37 am #141363

The hide rune makes runes invisible to non-cultists from what I remember.

Though really one cultist needs to spawn with sac quite badly because it's probably very frustrating to have to waste supply talisman charges on them.

EMP runes/paper disables headsets so abuse the fuck out of those if you can. Also consider improvised pneumatic cannons full of glass because those are quite effective at killing people.

1g88a · Post by **1g88a** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:36 am #141370

Random runes seems to be such a big issue with newcult that its hard to judge the other aspects of it properly.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:39 am #141393

>hm I wonder what this wierd red rune looking thing is under all this random shit
>oh well, lets just walk over it

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:47 am #141394

All cultists should start with a few base runes (sac, tome, etc) and be able to buy more through the talisman.

kazeespada · Post by **kazeespada** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:14 am #141487

1. Can't communion while cuffed.

2. No convert mechanic. Now its just the shitty part of gangs and the shitty part of wizard mixed together.

3. Narsie having a mortal shell is shit lore.

Ive been a successful cult and a fail cult, and I can safely say NEW CULT SUCKS.

onleavedontatme · Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:21 am

kazeespada wrote:
3. Narsie having a mortal shell is shit lore.

That has been unofficially true forever though. It's why it's sprited the way it is

kazeespada · Post by **kazeespada** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:18 am #141505

Kor wrote:
kazeespada wrote:
3. Narsie having a mortal shell is shit lore.
That has been unofficially true forever though. It's why it's sprited the way it is

Back in the day, that monster used to just claw his way out of the fourth dimension like it was no ones business. All he needed was nine cultists, no stupid shell.

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:21 am #141506

Kor wrote:
kazeespada wrote:
3. Narsie having a mortal shell is shit lore.
That has been unofficially true forever though. It's why it's sprited the way it is

When I joined back in 2013, the rune was "Summon Nar-Sie". The word "summon" implies that they're being brought as a whole from somewhere else, not put into a shell, which would be closer to something like "retrieve" if they needed it to begin with.

1g88a · Post by **1g88a** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:08 am #141533

I like to imagine its that Nar-Sie can't truly physically manifest, so instead a badass ritual statue is made as a conduit through which the Geometer Of Blood can channel a fraction of itself into and influence the material plane

onleavedontatme · Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:00 am

There is a reason it's sprited to look like a construct. Can ask Ausops about his head canon if you don't believe me.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:55 pm #141573

kazeespada wrote:
Kor wrote:
kazeespada wrote:
3. Narsie having a mortal shell is shit lore.
That has been unofficially true forever though. It's why it's sprited the way it is
Back in the day, that monster used to just claw his way out of the fourth dimension like it was no ones business. All he needed was nine cultists, no stupid shell.

back in the day Nar-Sie was literally an asshole, now only figuratively

tho as much as I like an unfathomable sprite for a thing that should not be, summoning their elder god into a construct does fit cultists a bit more

ShadowDimentio · Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:36 pm

So after playing in like three new cult rounds, all of which were apocalyptic failures, I can safely call new cult FUCKING AWFUL.

It's comparable to nops in how the team needs to work together to succeed (usually), but the BIG difference is that nops are a very LOUD antagonist and cult is a very quiet one. If nops are confirmed, the crew jumps into action and the two fight pretty evenly. If cult is confirmed (usually in new cult by one of the group being stupid and getting caught), the others are usually fucking nuked in no time flat thanks to powergaming shitcurity members searching everybody they see.

Example: Virologist got caught in maint in the most recent round and was randomly searched (shoutouts to random searching still being allowed by the way) and got caught with cult shit. He was dragged to perma where he ghosted out of frustration. Later, after cult was confirmed thanks to him, shitcurity was in maximum powergame and one went to mining and waited. Time passes, until one of the miners showed up where they got random searched as well, where it's found that the miner had murdered and sharded the other miner. The miner is then executed.

The phrase "You are only as strong as your weakest link" comes to mind, and that's shit.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:48 pm #141922

Cult really needs armor and weapon runes round start. They also need stun confirmed because it's impossible to do your job without it.

Oldman Robustin · Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:50 pm

Here's an idea for our coders:

1) Bring back oldcult, tweak the values you're not happy with (e.g. Stuntalisman ranges from OP to useless depending on how it lasts)

2) Take newnewcult and HoG cult and put two half-assed modes together into one potentially viable mode

3) Consult experienced players before forcing this untested shit down our throat in the future

ShadowDimentio · Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:12 pm

Oldman Robustin wrote:Here's an idea for our coders:

1) Bring back oldcult, tweak the values you're not happy with (e.g. Stuntalisman ranges from OP to useless depending on how it lasts)

2) Take newnewcult and HoG cult and put two half-assed modes together into one potentially viable mode

3) Consult experienced players before forcing this untested shit down our throat in the future

1) Stun talisman would be great because it could serve to silence and hold people still while you dragged them off to sacrifice

2) Good idea

3) Yes hello hi I'm an experienced player ready to consult new gameplay stuff

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:13 pm #141929

If you still abduct people alive in this version of cult you're doing it wrong. You just kill people now and sac the dead bodies.

ShadowDimentio · Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:16 pm

Then give an incentive to sacrifice living people.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:22 pm #141931

There was never a difference for saccing living people before, why would there be now

ShadowDimentio · Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:18 am

There's only ever been the traitor gamemode why should we make another

Sound argument

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:36 am #141947

Saying "sac the bodies" implies that you can insta kill a guy before he can type 4 letters.
I don't know about you, but I can type cult a lot faster then someone can stab me 3-4 times.

TheNightingale · Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:40 am

If you're going to kill someone, don't do it in a way that gives away your cult status. Stab them to death with a kitchen knife, don't club them with an arcane tome or cult sword. They might get out ";HELP SCI MAI-hurk!", but that's a lot better than ":s CULT RD-blargh!".

ShadowDimentio · Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:42 am

You want to know the funniest part about removing the stun talisman? It didn't even change anything. Now you just stunrod and EMP talisman them for an easy, silent kill.

So uh, congratulations on that.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:06 am #141951

Really don't like new Cult. I hated Construct Cult and now the new mode forces it and it makes me just want to go braindead when being sacced. Constructs are boring. RNG runes are annoying and frustrating. No conversion means Cultists are important, but if they're incompetent or new then the Cult's doubly fucked since they can't get new members to offset the ones who are bad.

It'd be fine as it's own mode but replacing Cult with it was just straight bad in my humble opinion

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:32 am #141953

lumipharon wrote:Saying "sac the bodies" implies that you can insta kill a guy before he can type 4 letters.
I don't know about you, but I can type cult a lot faster then someone can stab me 3-4 times.

Hit them in the chest

Cul-HURK
CUL-HARK
CUL-HURK

dead

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:57 am #141958

I've made several posts about how I think this mode can be improved, but I'd like to consolidate all my ideas into one post:

- All cultists start with a set of basic runes and can buy more with their tome, like traitors with uplinks
- Emphasis on building a base/construct factory
- No delta
- Replace delta with paranormal activity that increases in intensity as you get closer to the shell

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:20 am #141964

Zilenan91 wrote:
lumipharon wrote:Saying "sac the bodies" implies that you can insta kill a guy before he can type 4 letters.
I don't know about you, but I can type cult a lot faster then someone can stab me 3-4 times.
Hit them in the chest

Cul-HURK
CUL-HARK
CUL-HURK

dead

gee, glad you've solved the age old issue of people calling for help.
Glad that no one in the history of the game has been able to call for help as they get beaten or stabbed to death, and that everyone is a super slow typer.

Oh. Wait.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:12 am #141968

Seriously though, so long as you can down them without exposing yourself as blatantly cult you can get away with a lot of shit, especially if you're an unknown.

Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:02 am

Zilenan91 wrote:
lumipharon wrote:Saying "sac the bodies" implies that you can insta kill a guy before he can type 4 letters.
I don't know about you, but I can type cult a lot faster then someone can stab me 3-4 times.
Hit them in the chest

Cul-HURK
CUL-HARK
CUL-HURK

dead

>turn on hotkeys mode
>hit T
>type "HELP" into the box
>the bug that makes you un-HURK-able with this was never fixed
>scream help like the powergamer you are

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:05 am #141989

Wait really? Wow that's really shitty

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:19 am #142044

I could see a mute rune being useful but reasonably balanced

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:13 am #142051

Also, it's not fucking powergaming if the security team searches a virologist in maintenance. You've got to assume they will, because they're not out to get killed.

Oldman Robustin · Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:22 pm

Zilenan91 wrote:There was never a difference for saccing living people before, why would there be now

Yes there was, for most of cult's existence it was preferable to sac the living for guaranteed shards or free rune words.