NukeOp general gunprice renovation

[leibniz]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Because if ops can have unlimited access to ammo, they WILL carry 50975 mags of ammo, then they can just walk down the corridors spamming non stop because they literally can't run out.
Trying to beat the metal storm ain't fun yo.

Well, that's a possible issue.

[confused rock]

What if operatives could buy an "elite emag" that unbolts and opens doors? Problem solved; operatives can now ignore the AI rather than killing or subverting it.

better idea- cant ninjas cut door bolts with the sword? eswords could be able to do the same.

[PKPenguin321]

What if operatives could buy an "elite emag" that unbolts and opens doors? Problem solved; operatives can now ignore the AI rather than killing or subverting it.

better idea- cant ninjas cut door bolts with the sword? eswords could be able to do the same.

not that difficult to do, but it would be controversial

[Incomptinence]

Let them emag c4 to detonate instantly because obviously those nasty seconds it takes to detonate are a really "good" thing to get rid of?

[1g88a]

What about thermite breaching charges/application+ignition kits? Guaranteed to melt steel beams or your money back.

[Incomptinence]

Thermite takes a few seconds to work, seconds are unacceptable apparently.

[Steelpoint]

Look this is all stupid and off topic, if you want a door breaching charge take it else where.

This is about the price of the Op Guns and the possible removal of the Bulldog as a free weapon to allow Ops to buy other weapons instead of just skimming and taking a powerful weapon for free.

[onleavedontatme]

http://www.ss13.eu/tgdb/tg/stats_2015-1 ... _emergency

Ops win very consistently outside of extreme high pop why do people think they need to be immune to doors?

[Amelius]

http://www.ss13.eu/tgdb/tg/stats_2015-1 ... _emergency

Ops win very consistently outside of extreme high pop why do people think they need to be immune to doors?

That's literally only because they kill or subvert the AI 99.99% of the time. If the AI was a factor, it would be lower than 50/50 given that nothing stops the AI validhunting train if they're vaguely competent (asimov even mandates trying to seperate them from the crew).

Regardless, I still don't understand why the number of starting ops doesn't scale to the population, and that's for a different discussion. A two-three man op squad with 30pop? Actually kinda reasonable.

[Zilenan91]

Should be 1 Op per ten crew tbh

[Cik]

used the LMG the other day.

wasn't that impressed, even though it's 23Tc and 6 per box magazine, i actually lost to someone with a laser gun. i think i hit them at least 3 times.

doesn't seem very lethal anymore. do it's standard rounds have any additional effects or is it just damage?

[Zilenan91]

It's just damage, it really sucks now.

[Cik]

yeah, it's a 7.62 machine gun for christ sakes, i'm not asking for an unbalanced instakillgun at 23 tc but i'd prefer if it did way more damage, considering 23tc is still a fuckload.

[lumipharon]

Wait, did that terrible fucking nerf for the SAW actually get merged?

Top kek.

[Cik]

i guess so

>nerf something that nobody ever uses when the alternative is arguably better and free

why.exe

[Zilenan91]

Also eshields got nerfed so they don't block bullets or melee now so they suck

[Steelpoint]

Also eshields got nerfed so they don't block bullets or melee now so they suck

Wait when did this happen?

Edit: Found the PR's, one by Kor and one by Xhuis.

In total it means that Eshields have a 100% block rate against Energy attacks and Stun Batons.

.....

Wait why is it now a 100% block against Stun Batons?

Your kidding me? The only reliable method to stun a Op with a shield is now useless?

[Zilenan91]

Recently. Shields block stunbatons now but Kor also nerfed these into the shit-tier to do it.

[onleavedontatme]

They have a 0% rate vs stun batons, as they did previously.

[Zilenan91]

The shield nerf also made it so that they don't block spears, detective bullets, and also away mission mobs on away missions, so you also indirectly made a lot of the away missions much much harder and also made the shield basically useless. Why take it if the price was unchanged and you are now guaranteed to get shit on by spears and the detective even harder than usual.

[Amelius]

Shield changes were unneeded and unwanted, and the lack of a block ability for spears and so forth makes an already ignored, expensive weapon even more undesirable. The stunbaton used to be the great equalizer - shield blocked three taser shots and you're out of ammo? Well, you can always use the prod. Now normal on-station riot shields are ridiculously powerful now, blocking gunshots AND stunbatons half the time (read: most accessible stuns), making fighting them 100% RNG unfunfests instead of having a standby that doesn't revolve around RNG to push through it. The eshield is actually in many ways inferior to the on-station riot shields, which is just a hilarious travesty.

Also, imagine how shitty that would be to hit someone the HoS in combat with a baton three times or so and for them to not get fucking stunned. Or ambushing someone with a shield before they can react and having RNG fuck you in the ass. It's so fucking anti-fun it hurts - it's a bloody melee weapon, reward people for using it.

[onleavedontatme]

Spears already straight up ignored shields entirely.

[Zilenan91]

Not if they got blocked afaik, but I could be wrong.

[onleavedontatme]

Not sure why you need guesswork when the code is opensource and free to all.

Spears were NOSHIELD until a few days ago

[John_Oxford]

>implying you can carry 50975 mags

kkekekekekekeke

You have 7 slots in your backpack, one which will be a box no matter what, which contains 6 slots assuming you put internals on.
Meaning you have 12 slots on average, not including minibombs, guns, emags, toolsets, and crowbars
Adding on a additonal military belt, which will contain a stetchkin and the two mags it comes with, which leaves you at additonal five slots.
So not including additonal equipment you have 17 slots
Adding your pockets, 19.
Your pockets will most likely contain a emag and esword
17.
Two minibombs, Two C4, One Syndicate Bomb Uplink, your jet harness, a medkit
10.
If you have a stetchkin, and a bulldog, you most likely will buy 2 stetchkin mags to make it 4 in total for the two it comes with.
8 slots
You have 8 slots, assuming you only have enough TC to buy 3 bulldog mags, which all contain 8 rounds each.
Being conservative, and assuming they are all buckshot. You'll need around 3 rounds to kill one person, 4 if he is wearing armor.

3x8=24/3=8

You can kill 8 unarmored people.

3x8=24/4=6

Or 6 armored people

Or if they are wearing bulletproof armor

3x8=24/5=4.8 rounded to 5.

Or 5 bulletproof armored people

Or if they are wearing ERT armor

3x8=24/6=4

Or 4 ERT personel (an entire ert time, assuming they dont instantly rekt you with pulse weapons, or get healed by the medic)

Or if they are wearing deathsquad armor

3x8=24/8=3

You can kill 3 deathsquad members, assuming they don't blow you up with grenade launchers, mow you down with pulse destroyers, cleave you in half with energy axes, or just flat out beat you to death.



A normal round on sybil consists of around 90 people
10 of which will be security staff
Not including greytiders, validhunters, and command personel
Which would sum up to about 30 people.

You can't even kill the entirty of security on average.

[Zilenan91]

Bags have 21 slots now depending on weight class so you can hold a fuckton of ammo.

[John_Oxford]

well, disregard that assload of math then.

[MMMiracles]

Wait, did that terrible fucking nerf for the SAW actually get merged?

Top kek.

probably should of said something in the pr if you thought it wasn't a good idea :^)

i guess so

>nerf something that nobody ever uses when the alternative is arguably better and free

why.exe

I think that should count in more of the fact that OPs need rebalanced really badly, the person who added the bulldog even said he never intended for them to be that powerful.

Nobody used the SAW because it was overpriced as fuck, ammo was expensive, loosing it meant a giant chunk of your TC was now gone, and your only burst options were 'slow' and 'waste 3 bullets because you'd only need 2 to drop anyone besides deathsquad'.

SAW was made more versatile and cheaper in exchange for loosing the ability to use a shield (which was nerfed for whatever reason).

[lumipharon]

probably should of said something in the pr if you thought it wasn't a good idea :^)

I said in the pr how it was a retarded change.

SAW was made more versatile and cheaper in exchange for loosing the ability to use a shield (which was nerfed for whatever reason).

You mean turned a powerful, but overpriced weapon into a extremely shit and unversatile, slightly less expensive weapon?

[MMMiracles]

I said in the pr how it was a retarded change.

Unless you go by anything other than lumipharon on github, no, you didn't.

You mean turned a powerful, but overpriced weapon into a extremely shit and unversatile, slightly less expensive weapon?

I've actually seen people buy the gun now, last I ever saw it bought was when nodrop+adrenals was still a gameplan for OPs. How is a single-burst crit for everyone barring the HoS/bullet-proof' armored enemies considered 'shit'? Compared to the revolver disguised as a shotgun, then yes, it is quite shit. Then again, literally everything is pretty mediocre compared to the bulldog (seriously even the magazines for it cost less than the refill boxes for the actual revolver). Its priced so you're capable of buying the gun and a spare 1-2 ammo boxes without bankrupting your entire team of their TC and still capable of doing decent damage. If you're having issues dropping half the crew with it now then may space jesus have mercy on your unrobust soul.

[lumipharon]

can you link this pr, because I think you're talking about a different one then me.

The one I saw nerfed the damage to 30 or some shit per shot, so you couldn't even 1 burst crit anyone.

[MMMiracles]

can you link this pr, because I think you're talking about a different one then me.

The one I saw nerfed the damage to 30 or some shit per shot, so you couldn't even 1 burst crit anyone.

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13629

You're thinking of another PR or some shit, it does at the least 35 with added AP, so it still 1-burst crits people, including officers.

[J_Madison]

can you link this pr, because I think you're talking about a different one then me.

The one I saw nerfed the damage to 30 or some shit per shot, so you couldn't even 1 burst crit anyone.

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13818
Added to OP on reference.