Paranoia on a deathtrap
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Paranoia on a deathtrap
Where'd it go?
What's the easiest way of bringing it back?
What's the easiest way of bringing it back?
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- TGMC Administrator
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
What's there to be afraid of when you're all but guaranteed to either get revived, or return to the round in another role with 15 minutes? And even if you don't, the rounds are rarely ever over an hour anymore.
You have to have something to lose to be afraid.
You have to have something to lose to be afraid.
- kevinz000
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Lumi I'm afraid of losing the BoH of things I have on me
Can't have assistants rampaging with my stuff now can we
Can't have assistants rampaging with my stuff now can we
Local catgirl scratching post - Shezza
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
NSFW:
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
buff the everloving fuck out of antags, especially the stealthy shitdrunkas wrote:Where'd it go?
What's the easiest way of bringing it back?
make it so at any moment a traitor could just out and drop you dead in a second flat
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: Shodansbreak
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
They canPKPenguin321 wrote:buff the everloving fuck out of antags, especially the stealthy shitdrunkas wrote:Where'd it go?
What's the easiest way of bringing it back?
make it so at any moment a traitor could just out and drop you dead in a second flat
with a revolver
nobody buys it
- leibniz
- Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:21 pm
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- Location: Seeking help
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Why was the ebow nerfed?
It costs like half your TCs and it is inferior to the fucking basic tasers sec officers have.
It costs like half your TCs and it is inferior to the fucking basic tasers sec officers have.
Founder and only member of the "Whitelist Nukeops" movement
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
>7 bulletsHelios wrote:They canPKPenguin321 wrote:buff the everloving fuck out of antags, especially the stealthy shitdrunkas wrote:Where'd it go?
What's the easiest way of bringing it back?
make it so at any moment a traitor could just out and drop you dead in a second flat
with a revolver
nobody buys it
>almost all your TCs
buff it. make them way cheaper again. make them come with spare ammo and make additional ammo come in boxes and only cost 1 TC.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
paprika actually did this IIRC, he had the genius idea of making it a child of kinetic accelerators because he's a madmanleibniz wrote:Why was the ebow nerfed?
It costs like half your TCs and it is inferior to the fucking basic tasers sec officers have.
we could probably revert it now that he's gone tbh
sorry for the double post i was just too lazy to copy-paste a quote block to make both responses in the same quote
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Screemonster
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:23 pm
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Tension and paranoia take time.lumipharon wrote:What's there to be afraid of when you're all but guaranteed to either get revived, or return to the round in another role with 15 minutes? And even if you don't, the rounds are rarely ever over an hour anymore.
You have to have something to lose to be afraid.
Jumping at every shadow expecting an attack that may never come is something you're not gonna get when people get bored and call the shuttle after 20 minutes.
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
PK has it right. Make revolver ammo cheaper, revert the ebow to glory.
- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
This is honestly less about traitor items and more about items findable on the station. So many things have been nerfed that as a result there is almost no PvE.
- Shaps-cloud
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
You could give traitors an instagib gun that would make them 100x more lethal and dangerous and it wouldn't make the game more tense and paranoia filled, just more frustrating when you get dropped out of nowhere
Honestly my paranoia reaches its peak during early conversion rounds when I'm trying not to get gang'd or flashed so that I'm not obligated to help a gang/rev, but I don't think that's the kind of paranoia you're looking for
Honestly my paranoia reaches its peak during early conversion rounds when I'm trying not to get gang'd or flashed so that I'm not obligated to help a gang/rev, but I don't think that's the kind of paranoia you're looking for
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- Lumbermancer
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Less team modes. More traitor. More changeling. Less traitor and changeling items/skill for killing, more for subterfuge and messing up with things.
I mean yesterday when I played it was rev-ops-rev-ops in a row or something like that. That doesn't help the round longevity and thus creation of any tension.
I mean yesterday when I played it was rev-ops-rev-ops in a row or something like that. That doesn't help the round longevity and thus creation of any tension.
- imblyings
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
The logical conclusions I'm seeing are that murderboners become more frequent because the tools make it easier and that 'powergaming' by non-antags increases in response because no one likes having their fun stopped by someone else.
If you want to instil paranoia, you restrict what antags can do, which makes it more reasonable for non-antags to be told that they can't do certain things, which makes life easier for antags to try out different plans, which gives non-antags and antags alike the opportunity to cooperate in making a round filled with 'paranoia' and 'tension' because really it's all make-believe pretending and everyone has to play along.
Yeah you could re-introduce things like parapen c4 or parastings but what this means is I make sure to stay on disarm intent, keep cover between me and others, walk out of a place rather than be alone with someone, talk less, arm myself at the start of the round, hover my mouse over people, scan sprites for innocuous little pen pixels and the like. Which is a flavour of paranoia really but maybe not the definition of paranoia everyone's thinking about.
If you want to instil paranoia, you restrict what antags can do, which makes it more reasonable for non-antags to be told that they can't do certain things, which makes life easier for antags to try out different plans, which gives non-antags and antags alike the opportunity to cooperate in making a round filled with 'paranoia' and 'tension' because really it's all make-believe pretending and everyone has to play along.
Yeah you could re-introduce things like parapen c4 or parastings but what this means is I make sure to stay on disarm intent, keep cover between me and others, walk out of a place rather than be alone with someone, talk less, arm myself at the start of the round, hover my mouse over people, scan sprites for innocuous little pen pixels and the like. Which is a flavour of paranoia really but maybe not the definition of paranoia everyone's thinking about.
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
- Saegrimr
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
The "deathtrap" thing is also never an actual problem. What on the station can even kill you?
Touching a cable like a retard?
I keep saying to remove door safeties so any retard standing in a doorway is liable to get crunched. Maybe have the gravgen always spewing out radiation pulses too why not.
Touching a cable like a retard?
I keep saying to remove door safeties so any retard standing in a doorway is liable to get crunched. Maybe have the gravgen always spewing out radiation pulses too why not.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- CPTANT
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Why isn't the gravgen not always radioactive anyway. It's a room that is usually visited maybe once or twice a round.Saegrimr wrote:The "deathtrap" thing is also never an actual problem. What on the station can even kill you?
Touching a cable like a retard?
I keep saying to remove door safeties so any retard standing in a doorway is liable to get crunched. Maybe have the gravgen always spewing out radiation pulses too why not.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
I will just repost the thing I said on singulo:
People saying they want more danger but call things that kill them overpowered.
People say they want more paranoia but adminhelp when they get killed in confusing circumstances.
I promise you that if we transplanted this playerbase into 2013 or 2010 code it'd be the same killing spree rounds (but using tk xray through walls, or one hit kill polyacid), and the same butthurt, no magical period of perfect paranoia gameplay.
As to the OPs question, the single biggest way to cause a breakdown in the flow of gameplay we have right now would be a one character change in the config file (enable antag security).
People have overwhelmingly voted no to antag security though. They prefer team HUDs and a level of sanity/standard procedure instead of rioting/backstabbing/ambiguity in the rules.
People saying they want more danger but call things that kill them overpowered.
People say they want more paranoia but adminhelp when they get killed in confusing circumstances.
I promise you that if we transplanted this playerbase into 2013 or 2010 code it'd be the same killing spree rounds (but using tk xray through walls, or one hit kill polyacid), and the same butthurt, no magical period of perfect paranoia gameplay.
As to the OPs question, the single biggest way to cause a breakdown in the flow of gameplay we have right now would be a one character change in the config file (enable antag security).
People have overwhelmingly voted no to antag security though. They prefer team HUDs and a level of sanity/standard procedure instead of rioting/backstabbing/ambiguity in the rules.
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Antag sec was just shit however. It discourage people from wanting to play the role due to the stupidity of anyone and everyone hating you, including your own security fellows.
I find it amusing that you can even consider non-antag sec to be the single focal point of """paranoia""".
I find it amusing that you can even consider non-antag sec to be the single focal point of """paranoia""".
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
I didn't say it was the single focal point, just the biggest/easiest change that we could make immediately and unilaterally.
>the stupidity of everyone including your fellow officers hating you
Yes, that is the result of being paranoid and not trusting anyone. And no, like I said, people don't actually want paranoia, because paranoia is not a pleasant emotion.
What people really want is to feel like they are in "danger" but still narrowly come out on top. It would be difficult to create this feeling in a single player game, it is almost impossible in a multiplayer game where we need people to lose.
>the stupidity of everyone including your fellow officers hating you
Yes, that is the result of being paranoid and not trusting anyone. And no, like I said, people don't actually want paranoia, because paranoia is not a pleasant emotion.
What people really want is to feel like they are in "danger" but still narrowly come out on top. It would be difficult to create this feeling in a single player game, it is almost impossible in a multiplayer game where we need people to lose.
- CPTANT
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Though narrowly losing after a struggle is also fine.Kor wrote:I didn't say it was the single focal point, just the biggest/easiest change that we could make immediately and unilaterally.
>the stupidity of everyone including your fellow officers hating you
Yes, that is the result of being paranoid and not trusting anyone. And no, like I said, people don't actually want paranoia, because paranoia is not a pleasant emotion.
What people really want is to feel like they are in "danger" but still narrowly come out on top. It would be difficult to create this feeling in a single player game, it is almost impossible in a multiplayer game where we need people to lose.
What is not fun is situations that make you go from alive and fine to BAM DEAD without any way of reacting.
This is why the singularity is good and the tesla sucks. The singularity is a creeping doom that you can try to run away from, the tesla just kills you.
This is also why I prefer a 2 shot stun system over the single taser shot GG system we have now.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
1tc lets you know where the AI eye isCosmicScientist wrote:Last I checked the only paranoia is that of traitors who lack the ability to know where the AI's eye is, where it's headed or what cameras are being looked through by security and the like.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- TechnoAlchemist
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
1tc lets you know if it is looking at you, not that it's in the room next to you and that it is going to pass over you just as you whip out your throbbing Esword.
- Anonmare
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
>Buy camera bug
>put camera bugs on as many cameras as possible
>Activate the EMP function
>AI is completely blind in the area your whipping out your murderboner and doesn't know where to check first
For 2 Tc, you can have a multitool and camera bug. If you're really THAT paranoid about the AI, get a syndie key and you'll know when Security are putting on their stomping boots.
You shouldn't even really be killing people without a disguise/covered face+no ID anyway, unless it's a crime of passion in which case:- Buy syndie soap and AI detector. Check if the AI is watching you. Kill Urist McCoworker. Put body in locker/SSU/Bodybag/Anything and clean up the blood. The AI can't even access SSUs anymore so they''re an even more viable place to hide bodies. You can even hack them to render bodies unrecognisable and destroy equipment/identification. Combine it with a quick brain-removal and you've effectively taken somebody out of the round for good and sec has no way of knowing who.
>put camera bugs on as many cameras as possible
>Activate the EMP function
>AI is completely blind in the area your whipping out your murderboner and doesn't know where to check first
For 2 Tc, you can have a multitool and camera bug. If you're really THAT paranoid about the AI, get a syndie key and you'll know when Security are putting on their stomping boots.
You shouldn't even really be killing people without a disguise/covered face+no ID anyway, unless it's a crime of passion in which case:- Buy syndie soap and AI detector. Check if the AI is watching you. Kill Urist McCoworker. Put body in locker/SSU/Bodybag/Anything and clean up the blood. The AI can't even access SSUs anymore so they''re an even more viable place to hide bodies. You can even hack them to render bodies unrecognisable and destroy equipment/identification. Combine it with a quick brain-removal and you've effectively taken somebody out of the round for good and sec has no way of knowing who.
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- TGMC Administrator
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
>camera bug every camera in the area
Yeah sure, this sounds totally practical considering the AI has plenty of cameras that can see through windows/are behind access locked airlocks etc.
Also if you have time to sneak into a departmnt and disable EVERY SINGLE CAMERA before even trying to murder someone, then you could have just as easily double tapped them in the head with a revolver and just dragged them out.
I have NEVER seen anyone do this, despite how many AI shills claiming it's a reasonable way to avoid the AI from cucking you.
Yeah sure, this sounds totally practical considering the AI has plenty of cameras that can see through windows/are behind access locked airlocks etc.
Also if you have time to sneak into a departmnt and disable EVERY SINGLE CAMERA before even trying to murder someone, then you could have just as easily double tapped them in the head with a revolver and just dragged them out.
I have NEVER seen anyone do this, despite how many AI shills claiming it's a reasonable way to avoid the AI from cucking you.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Doesn't EMPing a camera give a huge red flag to the AI who will now be searching the area or relaying "Something EMPed my cameras in the dorms"?
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
It only gives an alarm after the EMP wears off. During the duration of the EMP, you can do whatever you like (including disable the cameras).
How about if the EMP kit (with the EMP grenades, EMP implant and EMP flashlight) also had an upgraded laser pointer in it? Pointing one of those at a camera disables it remotely, and it works to stun cyborgs too.
How about if the EMP kit (with the EMP grenades, EMP implant and EMP flashlight) also had an upgraded laser pointer in it? Pointing one of those at a camera disables it remotely, and it works to stun cyborgs too.
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- TGMC Administrator
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
It would be better if they simply never got a notification of emp'd cameras tbh.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
I think its a good thing, you're thinking too directly.lumipharon wrote:It would be better if they simply never got a notification of emp'd cameras tbh.
Go set the cameras in the engineering hallway to EMP, wait for the AI to yell about it so everybody goes to check it out then revolver the guy in Xenobio.
The problem is the players start to feel like fodder that only exist for the sake of being killed, which is (one of many reasons) why people just go braindead if they don't roll antag.CosmicScientist wrote:Antagonists have all the paranoia and having a taste every so often is good enough for me, I'd rather not feel agitated as part of the crew; being able to put trust in other people not only lets you do fun things but lets you get away from valid hunting and focus on making fun out of the game with other players.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Atlanta-Ned
- In-Game Game Master
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
I dunno, I get paranoid whenever I happen across someone in maintenance regardless of what's going on.
Statbus! | Admin Feedback
OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are
OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are
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- TGMC Administrator
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
But that "emp engineering" part achieves nothing.Saegrimr wrote:I think its a good thing, you're thinking too directly.lumipharon wrote:It would be better if they simply never got a notification of emp'd cameras tbh.
Go set the cameras in the engineering hallway to EMP, wait for the AI to yell about it so everybody goes to check it out then revolver the guy in Xenobio.
The problem is the players start to feel like fodder that only exist for the sake of being killed, which is (one of many reasons) why people just go braindead if they don't roll antag.CosmicScientist wrote:Antagonists have all the paranoia and having a taste every so often is good enough for me, I'd rather not feel agitated as part of the crew; being able to put trust in other people not only lets you do fun things but lets you get away from valid hunting and focus on making fun out of the game with other players.
By emping those cameras, there is a (small) chance of you getting caught doing that, and probably searched.
With shooting the guy in xeno, either he has time to call for help or not (unlikely unless you miss like a pleb). Having a couple of guys possibly distracted by the emp achieves nothing of value, unless everyone in science other than the target all go streaming out to engineering for some bizarre reason.
Edit: Two things I think could help with paranoia, perhaps not for the entire game, but specifically with traitor in mind is A: Communication, and B: Sight.
As a traitor, I feel so much more free when comms are down, because I know I can do illegal shit/attack someone, and they can't just scream for help and immediately get the AI to bolt me down/all of sec come down on me.
From the crew perspective, when comms are down you are suddenly cut off from most of the crew. You don't know if there are nuke ops trying to blow up the station, or if the AI has gone rogue, if there are revs in the streets etc.
While I'm not saying 'remove general comms' or any dumb shit like that, I do think it would be good for the game if it was easier for antags to disable comms.
As for sight, two things here. First was an idea for a traitor gimmick item that would be like a laser pointer or some shit, but instead of disabling cameras/stunning borgs, it would freeze what they can see through that camera/what the borg can see for a certain while/until it's fixed.
So rather than an obvious blank spot in camera coverage, the AI would only see a frozen image (this is classic movie stuff, why don't we have it?) for borgs it would basically just cuck them for a while and be hilarious, because fuck borgs.
The other gimmick item, which I've tried to shill before, would be an rechargable item that disables all artifical light (ie: pda lights, but not glowshrooms etc) in a large area for 30-60 seconds. Since most crew don't have access to natural light sources, this would blackout a whole area, leaving it vulnerable to the plucky traitor with thermals/nvg's, or simply to help them escape from a bunch of sec, etc.
People don't like being blind, you can't tell what's going on, but you can hear it, and with the above item you'd KNOW a traitor is someone in your area, but you've got no idea if they're simply strolling by, coming to murder the guy working next to you, or coming for you yourself.
Last edited by lumipharon on Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
I doubt /tg/ will ever have that sense of paranoia at this point. PR after PR making the game easier and adding things for any powergamer can gt their hands on. Nerfing stealthy antags into the ground because boo hoo something can kill you without you having a chance to kill it. Enabling silly murderboner meta, rounds getting shorter, powergaming becoming more widespread to the point that big powergamers are fed attention rather than bans.
Might as well put both servers on the hub and truly become NOX 2.0
Might as well put both servers on the hub and truly become NOX 2.0
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
this is (sadly) the most accurate thing in this thread so farGun Hog wrote:Your muscles painfully tighten!
GG
Both are nerfed/removed.
if there was anything to be paranoid of, it was these things
also we should remove/severly nerf defibs
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
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- Confined to the shed
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
A change I'd like to see happen would be to make cameras run off the powernet. It'd make powersinks godlike because it would allow traitors/ops free reign to do whatever they want and not have the chance to get instafucked by a wandering AI or security eye.
Spoiler:
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
As a frequent AI player, I think this'd be quite interesting. Maybe have it so APCs are always visible, though, otherwise the AI can't toggle power to a room without killing their own cameras...Zilenan91 wrote:A change I'd like to see happen would be to make cameras run off the powernet. It'd make powersinks godlike because it would allow traitors/ops free reign to do whatever they want and not have the chance to get instafucked by a wandering AI or security eye.
Or... what if cameras run off the powernet, but aren't connected to a specific APC toggle (Equipment/Lighting/Environment)? So only turning off the main breaker or draining the APC's battery works?
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- Confined to the shed
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Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Yeah if there was like a 1 tile vision in front of APCs, but cameras got disabled by power loss that would be ideal. The new cameras wouldn't be as overpowered and it's a needed AI nerf for validscanning.
Spoiler:
- invisty
- Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 12:02 am
- Byond Username: Invisty
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Paranioa died with the likes of cryo "usability" changes, the nerfing of hunger, etc.
If you want to improve the paranoia, make people dependent on each other, then design the antagonists to play on that. Then nerf the capacity of individuals to go full walking-armoury-murderboner.
"But no!", says the player. "I dont like how I cant get anything done because nobody trusts me! I should be able to do things without depending on those who anecdotally fail to do their jobs."
If you want to improve the paranoia, make people dependent on each other, then design the antagonists to play on that. Then nerf the capacity of individuals to go full walking-armoury-murderboner.
"But no!", says the player. "I dont like how I cant get anything done because nobody trusts me! I should be able to do things without depending on those who anecdotally fail to do their jobs."
Mime: Depresso
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
That's basically the crux of it, yeah.
Self reliance a shit.
Self reliance a shit.
- Babin
- Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:47 am
- Byond Username: Babin
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
We've had sentiments in the past against removing people from the round (and also placing ghosts back into the round), followed by the push to make the station more dangerous. This led in many ways to the flurry of rounds that we see today. Removing people from the round isn't a huge concern because it's been alleviated by having much shorter rounds.
Having nothing but short rounds invalidates much of the late-game content, and by its very nature it also weakens jobs with late-game power. Botany mutations, xenobio, genetics research, virology, mining, and science (because of mining) all have content locked by timesinks.
On one hand, you have the long and boring rounds where nothing happens. If a bunch of ghosts are stuck for an hour waiting for the round to end, that's never fun for the ghosts. If none of the antags are causing issues, that's only fun for a handful of people (mostly those with the late-game content, whoops). But on the other hand, if you play many short games, then the rounds begin to blur together. There is no room for the late-game shenanigans or the rare extra-long round where the nuke ops go stealth to attempt a fun gimmick. That would be a shame, because while those long rounds can be a bust for some, they have some potential to be the most hilariously fun rounds ever. It's also worth mentioning that when rounds are shorter, your own life is less important because you'll just respawn soon anyway.
I like the game best when I join a lobby with no idea of how long the next round will be. Will it be a wizard that dies in five minutes? A 90-minute manhunt for an exceptionally skilled killer clown who then nukes the shuttle? Variety is the best thing.
Having nothing but short rounds invalidates much of the late-game content, and by its very nature it also weakens jobs with late-game power. Botany mutations, xenobio, genetics research, virology, mining, and science (because of mining) all have content locked by timesinks.
On one hand, you have the long and boring rounds where nothing happens. If a bunch of ghosts are stuck for an hour waiting for the round to end, that's never fun for the ghosts. If none of the antags are causing issues, that's only fun for a handful of people (mostly those with the late-game content, whoops). But on the other hand, if you play many short games, then the rounds begin to blur together. There is no room for the late-game shenanigans or the rare extra-long round where the nuke ops go stealth to attempt a fun gimmick. That would be a shame, because while those long rounds can be a bust for some, they have some potential to be the most hilariously fun rounds ever. It's also worth mentioning that when rounds are shorter, your own life is less important because you'll just respawn soon anyway.
I like the game best when I join a lobby with no idea of how long the next round will be. Will it be a wizard that dies in five minutes? A 90-minute manhunt for an exceptionally skilled killer clown who then nukes the shuttle? Variety is the best thing.
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- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
If you're a ghost you don't need to spectate for an hour. Go do something else, alt tab and jerk off or something.
People complaining in deadchat until admins press buttons for this is also terrible, and has ruined more than one interesting round.
People complaining in deadchat until admins press buttons for this is also terrible, and has ruined more than one interesting round.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
There is another server. If you're really itching to get back to spacemans you can just hop onto basil/sybil depending.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Drynwyn
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:09 pm
- Byond Username: Drynwyn
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
some people even speak of servers beyond /tg/stationSaegrimr wrote:There is another server. If you're really itching to get back to spacemans you can just hop onto basil/sybil depending.
In game, I play the A.I Firmware, the French cyborg C.U.R.I.E, Aubrie Allen, and the lizard scum Skulks-Through-Maintenance.
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- Confined to the shed
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 pm
- Byond Username: Zilenan91
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
None of the other servers have the level of content or content development as we do, except for maybe Goon because it's ancient. It's also to mention how every server is different in forms of attitude, feel, and playerbase, so leaving /tg/ for Hippie or Paradise or even basil, from Sybil, is like an entirely different game, a game you don't like.
Spoiler:
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Yeah you get less validhunting on basil because the pubbies aren't that robust.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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- Confined to the shed
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 pm
- Byond Username: Zilenan91
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
The reason that people play less on basil is because it's just an inferior server. Admins in particular treat it like the second son of the family, still loved, yet not as graced as the first. The reason this is the case is because of a lot of systemic issues that were never fully dealt with that drive off players, metafriending, for one. It's horribly bad on basil, I see people given increased access nearly every round with no to almost no words exchanged between the two. The worst is when one of them get attacked or slighted in some way and all of the others dogpile on the assailant no matter how much wrongdoing their friend had done. It's just a horrible place to be that will likely never be fixed.
Spoiler:
- PKPenguin321
- Site Admin
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
- Byond Username: PKPenguin321
- Github Username: PKPenguin321
- Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
to be fair, this mindset will inevitably spring from paranoia. if you can't trust people, why rely on them at all?invisty wrote:Paranioa died with the likes of cryo "usability" changes, the nerfing of hunger, etc.
If you want to improve the paranoia, make people dependent on each other, then design the antagonists to play on that. Then nerf the capacity of individuals to go full walking-armoury-murderboner.
"But no!", says the player. "I dont like how I cant get anything done because nobody trusts me! I should be able to do things without depending on those who anecdotally fail to do their jobs."
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Something being super lethal doesn't cause paranoia by itself.
Nor do consequences (sitting in deadchat for an hour). A wizard warping to station, cheesing stuns to kill everyone, and recalling the shuttle for 45 minutes is not fun or interesting for anyone involved.
Paranoia comes from not knowing.
But we know everything. We have brightly lit areas, cameras, universal radio, secHUDs that see your job and whether or not you have the AntagFree implant, meta tells for all antags, spammable antag tests/deconversion, team huds/private chat for most antag types, etc.
It is not about lethality, it is about information, and trust, and we have a ton of both.
Playing a game of Mafia or Trouble in Terrorist Town doesn't require the badguy to be able to shrug off bullets and rampage to be scary, and the games only last 15 minutes at most. But it exploits everyones lack of information, to sow mistrust and confusion. It is a race against time to figure things out as people get picked off.
We lack confusion, because our players desire clarity, in rules and in gameplay.
Nor do consequences (sitting in deadchat for an hour). A wizard warping to station, cheesing stuns to kill everyone, and recalling the shuttle for 45 minutes is not fun or interesting for anyone involved.
Paranoia comes from not knowing.
But we know everything. We have brightly lit areas, cameras, universal radio, secHUDs that see your job and whether or not you have the AntagFree implant, meta tells for all antags, spammable antag tests/deconversion, team huds/private chat for most antag types, etc.
It is not about lethality, it is about information, and trust, and we have a ton of both.
Playing a game of Mafia or Trouble in Terrorist Town doesn't require the badguy to be able to shrug off bullets and rampage to be scary, and the games only last 15 minutes at most. But it exploits everyones lack of information, to sow mistrust and confusion. It is a race against time to figure things out as people get picked off.
We lack confusion, because our players desire clarity, in rules and in gameplay.
- invisty
- Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 12:02 am
- Byond Username: Invisty
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
That's the problem. There's no reason to make yourself dependent on other players unless you're unambiguously allied. eg. metabuddies, no-antag-sec, syndies.PKPenguin321 wrote: if you can't trust people, why rely on them at all?
Lone-wolfing, either as a protagonist or antagonist, should ideally put you at a greater disadvantage than cooperating with other players.
Mime: Depresso
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- Confined to the shed
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 pm
- Byond Username: Zilenan91
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
Or we could just keep taking the game in the direction it's going currently. There isn't anything endemically wrong with the way the game is going right now. All this thread is is nostalgia for a worse time.
Spoiler:
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: Paranoia on a deathtrap
PKPenguin321 wrote:buff the everloving fuck out of antags, especially the stealthy shitdrunkas wrote:Where'd it go?
What's the easiest way of bringing it back?
make it so at any moment a traitor could just out and drop you dead in a second flat
This used to be what changelings did. They'd cuck you in single combat no matter what, and that made everyone paranoid of everyone because WHAT IF THIS GUY IS A LING STAY AWAY FROM MY PERSONAL SPACEKor wrote:Something being super lethal doesn't cause paranoia by itself.
Nor do consequences (sitting in deadchat for an hour). A wizard warping to station, cheesing stuns to kill everyone, and recalling the shuttle for 45 minutes is not fun or interesting for anyone involved.
Paranoia comes from not knowing.
But we know everything. We have brightly lit areas, cameras, universal radio, secHUDs that see your job and whether or not you have the AntagFree implant, meta tells for all antags, spammable antag tests/deconversion, team huds/private chat for most antag types, etc.
It is not about lethality, it is about information, and trust, and we have a ton of both.
Playing a game of Mafia or Trouble in Terrorist Town doesn't require the badguy to be able to shrug off bullets and rampage to be scary, and the games only last 15 minutes at most. But it exploits everyones lack of information, to sow mistrust and confusion. It is a race against time to figure things out as people get picked off.
We lack confusion, because our players desire clarity, in rules and in gameplay.
Until the butthurt players that hated parasting had it removed.
Then ling lost it's shtick of "1v1 gods" and wandered around different gameplay ideas that were all shit, slowly dying, until people got so sick of it that it was removed.
Bring back parasting, bring back ling, bring back paranoia, bring back fun.
Spoiler:
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