M90-GL

[Oldman Robustin]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Crew having Xrays by the time warops show up is an extremely rare thing.

You need excellent coordination between miners (who often don't even bother mining when declaration goes out at roundstart), cargo, and RND, and RND/Mining has to be staffed with at least one really good player.

[lumipharon]

No, it requires 1 competent guy, doesn't even need science access.

Basic research takes 5 minutes or so, which lets you upgrade the ore machine to tier 3.
You can then mine your self, again for 5 minutes or less (only need like, 2-3 of each ore), multiply it all by 3 because goof, then you can finish R&D in another 5 minutes, blood drain to get combat 6 in a minute or 2, then shit out a dozen xrays.

war ops take how long? 15, 20 minutes? That's plenty of time.

[Oldman Robustin]

Theory and reality almost never align in SS13.

[lumipharon]

Its not theory when people like mehki and I can do it routinely.

And that's not blowing my own trumpet either - R&D is just mechanically very simple and straight forwards. But anyway, this is somewhat off topic.

[onleavedontatme]

>1 hit kill bursts
>incredibly high armour values+infinite healing means they can laugh off most lethal attacks
>eshields/adrenals/armour values means stuns are mitigated as well
>occuring with 20 people online

Nuke op power creep is getting really silly. And this is just standard stuff, nevermind silly (but underused) stuff like crippling the entire station with a 5tc fungal TB grenade.

[lumipharon]

The gun price adjustment, plus giving the ops 50 more tc BY DEFAULT, on top of war mode options, has proven to be a mistake, I suspect.

[kevinz000]

Robustin I've seen plenty of scientists get xray capability 10 minutes in. R&D isn't hard. It isn't a rare thing for R&D to be shitting out endgame items and weapons by the time warops come in. That's why warops have so many TC because R&D is probably going to have a lot of endgame items and weapons to shit on them with.

[Jazaen]

*snip*

Says the person who added war mode.

[Steelpoint]

War Mode seems more of a attempt to boost the abysmal Op win rates on high pop (which is around the 5% figure last I checked).

Of course while the Ops get a ton of TC's, the crew get twenty minutes minimum of prep time to actually prepare.

There's a maassive difference between a Security Officer scrambling for a Laser Rifle (which ain't going to work on that Eshield) versus one who's equipped with a X-Ray gun in one hand and and a Prototype SMG in the other, along with SWAT or Bulletproof armour and a healing virus.

[onleavedontatme]

War mode gives the crew a chance to get just as overgeared at least, and it isn't usable below 50 people. All that nonsense stops being quite as powerful when they have to deal with that many armed and prepared crew members.

http://www.ss13.eu/tgdb/tg/latest_stats ... _emergency

All that gear actually plays fine at higher populations/their creep has led them there.

@Steelpoint

Wasn't really an attempt to fix the win rate (it's called "challenge" for a reason), I just liked HBL's event and wanted to turn it into a pseudo mode. I like the participation/build up/plans on both sides.

I'm just going to make a lazy "fix" and restrict operatives to high pop until someone can come up with proper scaling.

[Steelpoint]

Keeping it to 30+ crew members would be the better move. Forcing it to too high pop inverts the problem in making Ops rarely win.

Which is already the problem.

I still think the best solution is to add more Op members on high pop. Also make TC scaling more prevalent perhaps, so on low pop while you have five Ops you will have very few TC's while on high pop you get exponentionally more TC's.

[DemonFiren]

Harsh TC scaling...

I wanna see 20-pop spear ops.

[lumipharon]

I feel we're throwing our heads into the wall here.
It seems clearly obvious that ops have way too much shit to play with at lowpop, where as it's fine/they get fucked on high pop.

The gun change gave ops a flat 50tc boost, which only increased this problem.