Lavaland

confused rock · Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:06 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

The outpost is missing a disposal, abandoned crates are gone, and the miners have no form of light if they run no hardsuit besides pda. give them a hard hat or something.

Gamarr · Post by **Gamarr** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:00 pm #162685

The ash storms are great in theory, yeah, but with almost no 'here but useless' ruins implemented to provide temporary shelter when out digging or whatever, with the mobs everywhere, the clockwork ashstorms are a serious pain.
Now, miners get some free ones I believe and also can buy more, so the actual facet of the stations crew having this issue should be minor. Why? I've yet to even see a miner use them right. They always drop them like... ten damn tiles away from the mining airlock. WHY!? And then they never buy anymore as I've not yet seen any deployed beyond the first. Afaik they are supposed to be used for you in the emergency, when you are deep in the mine, and you use it to make a mini-outpost. Use as directed.

Ah yes, the bluespace hut capsules. Implement logging for their creation and who did, and maybe where, because they have no kind of access restrictions and each capsule drops down an instant house with full walls and some electronics, with no restrictions on station or anywhere else. Have seen them used to grief now a few times with no downside.

As for the Tribe getting onto the station, that is sometimes going to be a thing until there is a minimum distance required for such ruins as theirs or the prisoner spawn. I got to see one prisoner shuttle crashed right at the edge of the whiteships landing zone once. Two prisoners got dressed fast enough and went back to the station and had a fun time. Now, shit could've happened, maybe it will in the future, but I'd like to note that the chances of their spawns actually being in a place where our short rounds allow the miners, and the prisoners/Tribe enough time to get into contact, is very, very slim. However, the Tribe should not be shitty up on the station without a damn good reason given they worship the Tendrils/Necropolis and are down there to be cave-lizards.

The unloved rock wrote:The outpost is missing a disposal, abandoned crates are gone, and the miners have no form of light if they run no hardsuit besides pda. give them a hard hat or something.

Miners all get these sexy lanterns in their lockers for them to use. This also brings up an obvious use of glowshrooms from botany I might add.

confused rock · Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:28 pm

Gamarr wrote: Miners all get these sexy lanterns in their lockers for them to use. This also brings up an obvious use of glowshrooms from botany I might add.

not any more for some reason, and even so, thatd waste some inventory space.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:45 pm #162914

add clown posters to cluwne ruin pls

also up ore amounts

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:53 pm #162918

Ops should get pickaxes and a lavaland destination so they can sentience mining mobs to use on the station

onleavedontatme · Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:05 pm

Abandoned crates are back.

Lava will no longer overwrite ruins.

Ash lizards/prisoners are disabled now.

There is a mapping freeze currently so it's difficult to fix some of these concerns.

onleavedontatme · Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:09 pm

Ash storm warnings will definitley need to be made more visible, as well as the storms themselves.

I'm torn between thinking they are too long but also having had some good experiences holing up with other miners/survivors. Maybe locking people in a room is a dumb way to do it, but it was nice to have a couple minutes to actually converse with another player.

I'm thinking about how to make borgs/mechs interact with storms, obviously they're not in a very good place right now.

Mineral amounts will be upped or high mineral zones added once the mapping freeze is done.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:36 pm #163410

Kor wrote:Ash storm warnings will definitley need to be made more visible, as well as the storms themselves.

I'm torn between thinking they are too long but also having had some good experiences holing up with other miners/survivors. Maybe locking people in a room is a dumb way to do it, but it was nice to have a couple minutes to actually converse with another player.

Could I make a few suggestions?

Make storms hamper instead of being lethal, to something akin to wearing a welding mask/goggles in the active position to reduce visibility. If possible, add in a speed debuff for being in the storm, walking into the wind/being buffeted about.

Monsters (Goliaths, Legions and Basilisks) would be unaffected by this so wandering about in storms would still be something of a bad idea as the monsters would get the drop on you. Increasing monster activity/having respawns might be another good way to make people think twice about wandering about.

Make it so EVA suits protect against the fire damage of the ash, instead of just thermal protection garments like the CE's jumpsuit. Non-miners could still go about and mine extra but storms would hamper than more than actual miners in hardsuits. Firesuits would probably be a viable option for ash protection as well, but you'd need a space proof helmet to block all the damage.

Gamarr · Post by **Gamarr** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:34 pm #163420

Davidchan wrote: Make storms hamper instead of being lethal, to something akin to wearing a welding mask/goggles in the active position to reduce visibility. If possible, add in a speed debuff for being in the storm, walking into the wind/being buffeted about.

Monsters (Goliaths, Legions and Basilisks) would be unaffected by this so wandering about in storms would still be something of a bad idea as the monsters would get the drop on you. Increasing monster activity/having respawns might be another good way to make people think twice about wandering about.

This is part of a good idea, actually, with the visibility (which is already bad but it is not a complaint) hampering from the storm. It would mean that while not so lethal itself, if you do go stumbling into the dark while barely able to see 3-5 tiles ahead of you, you will probably die as the monsters will see you first and their responses tend to trump player/lag more often than not. You will however, be able to not die and dig a little hole into a cave wall and wait it out with this way. It is not ideal, it is not the safest, it is very feasible though and long as you are patient, you will not die generally. This lends itself also to creating pre-exposed tunnels near the outpost, so when a storm does hit the miners just go into that one they dug and work, knowing they are mostly safe. With mesons they shouldn't expose another tunnel with digging if they are smart and all will be well.

So you will get 'clear' which is more for clearing your area/exploring, and when storms bring down visibility like welder-sight as the other guy said, you hunker down/go dig in your exposed and safe-zoned veins. To that end, mining could do with perhaps a... holoprojector for marking tunnels, or color flares of some sort.

As for monsters, the numbers are more than fine, Davidchan, and with the visibility idea they would be plenty enough. As for respawning, there already is respawns, as the Tendrils create a particular type of beast. They also drop loot before wrecking the local environment when killed now, so they are an environment hazard in of themselves.

A speed debuff might be alright but I would not want to test both visibility and slowdown new at the same time because it sounds downright supremely lethal (and mining is lethal right now, if played stupid. I believe people just need to adjust and it is not nearly as hard as people make it seem).

confused rock · Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:39 pm

the stuff from the new abandoned crates is usually useless, but those edgy metal plate things seem broken, considering they basically make walls you can see through that cant be deconstructed by normal means, so you need drills or bombs or something.

TechnoAlchemist · Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:27 am

Keep ash storm length also making them more vision hampering would be atmospheric

kazeespada · Post by **kazeespada** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:15 pm #163667

Up the fire resistance of mining hardsuits(probably to red locker fire suit levels), and nerf the required level of resistance for ash storms. Implement the vision stufff as well, so that miners can weather out ash storms but outsiders have to flee for cover.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:07 am #163983

>Be AI
>Get put in firefighter mech to help mine
>Accidentally step i none tile of lava
>It never goes out
>Die from fire
Wow some fire proof mech you got there

Post by **MMMiracles** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:21 am #163985

Anonmare wrote:>Be AI
>Get put in firefighter mech to help mine
>Accidentally step i none tile of lava
>It never goes out
>Die from fire
Wow some fire proof mech you got there

>lava
>thinking fire-proofing will help against literal molten rock

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:09 pm #163991

>Clowns heal bannanas
>But it's absurd to think fire-proof plating resists heat

Could you not?

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:26 pm #163994

MMMiracles wrote:
Anonmare wrote:>Be AI
>Get put in firefighter mech to help mine
>Accidentally step i none tile of lava
>It never goes out
>Die from fire
Wow some fire proof mech you got there
>lava
>thinking fire-proofing will help against literal molten rock

Are you fucking serious? Magma has a melting range 700 °C to 1300 °C (or 1300 °F to 2400 °F) based on it's composition. Plasma fires that Firefighter APLU's regularly wade through are 6,000 °C if not more.

This guy steps on 2,0000 C Magma and the shoe only stays ignited while in contact, soon as he pulls away the fire goes out. Steel doesn't burn.

onleavedontatme · Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:25 pm

Counter-evidence of lava melting a robot.

onleavedontatme · Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:27 pm

Anonmare wrote:>Be AI
>Get put in firefighter mech to help mine
>Accidentally step i none tile of lava
>It never goes out
>Die from fire
Wow some fire proof mech you got there

I could probably make the firefighting mech lava proof but I'm afraid one person being able to move freely in lava while it kills everyone else would be stupid combat wise.

Though I guess there is little PVP going on with lavaworld anyway.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:26 pm #164020

Probably best to make lava kill everyone

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:38 pm #164023

Kor wrote:Counter-evidence of lava melting a robot.

Molten Steel. Not Lava. Steel melts at 1500 C. As for the complaint was that the fire never went out on the mech, you touch lava once and you never extinguish.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:45 pm #164025

Lavaland gulag is nonfunctional due to no way to start the conveyor belt, and the stacking machine also unusable and is literal garbage. Just remove it entirely, it does nothing.

Jazaen · Post by **Jazaen** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:47 pm #164026

Yes, but then in the new one they used le magic acid to kill le magic alloy robot.

Maybe just make exosuits immune to lingering fire damage, so that they do take lava damage when they touch it but won't have fire on them after that.
Speaking of the glulag, give them some firesuits, and fix it. Sec needs somewhere to throw shitters, and having them ghost there is better than them breaking brig windows and depressurizing the thing.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:50 pm #164027

Saegrimr wrote:Lavaland gulag is nonfunctional due to no way to start the conveyor belt, and the stacking machine also unusable and is literal garbage. Just remove it entirely, it does nothing.

it's also always separated by the rest of lavaland by a lava river so there's no way to escape ever, probably intended though

Remie Richards · Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:06 pm

Grazyn wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:Lavaland gulag is nonfunctional due to no way to start the conveyor belt, and the stacking machine also unusable and is literal garbage. Just remove it entirely, it does nothing.
it's also always separated by the rest of lavaland by a lava river so there's no way to escape ever, probably intended though

All rivers are randomly generated in... EXCEPT for one river, this one river wraps around the mining station (though it does not separate this from the mainland) and then the Gulag (separated) and then straight up until it reaches almost the top of the map, where it takes a 90 degree turn and then keeps going until it hits the east edge of the map.

tl;dr it's very much intended.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:59 pm #164052

Saegrimr wrote:Lavaland gulag is nonfunctional due to no way to start the conveyor belt, and the stacking machine also unusable and is literal garbage. Just remove it entirely, it does nothing.

It functions as a questionably more secure alternative to perma, which is what players have been using the gulag for for ages anyway.

WarbossLincoln · Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:06 pm

Last I saw there weren't many minerals available to the gulag area. Last time I was there I had to breach out of the gulag area(which is full of monsters) just to fill a 500 point sentence.

newfren · Post by **newfren** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:55 pm #164080

cmspano wrote:Last I saw there weren't many minerals available to the gulag area. Last time I was there I had to breach out of the gulag area(which is full of monsters) just to fill a 500 point sentence.

Dig sand man it's the easiest thing in the world.

Post by **lumipharon** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:07 pm #164123

The plant people vault thing needs a grinder and brewmaster like normal botany has.
With the plant changes that will allow them to make mutagen and shit given enough time and autism.

coiax · Post by **coiax** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:24 pm #164605

1) The Free Golem ship has a door that opens onto a wall.
2) The Free Golems start with no ID cards to allow them to claim points at the reward machines, nor dispense ores.
3) The Free Golems have no mesons, making their mining scanners a little bit rubbish.
4) Golem shells aren't activated like runes, so there's a chance a new golem will be born but you won't be around to give its life task.

Jazaen · Post by **Jazaen** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:19 pm #164631

Adding a way to recycle dead golems would be nice too, since one suicide/ash-storm victim costs you 20 iron and 10 of whatever.

onleavedontatme · Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:00 pm

var/golem_name = pick("Quartz", "Crystal", "Boulder", "Mountain", "Rock", "Stalagmite", "Stalagtite", "Sediment", "Geode", "Igneous", "Quarry", "Shale", "Obsidian", "Chasm", "Stone", "Oynx", "Iron", "Quake", "Grotto","Landslide","Mineral", "Slag", "Pebble", "Gravel", "Pyrite", "Flint", "Sand")

Are all the current names. Taking suggestions for more.

onleavedontatme · Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:15 pm

There is a fix up for the IDs. Golems can buy mesons in the vendors.

Lots of little things I cant do right now though without editing the maps and there is a freeze on that.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:15 pm #164640

Shist

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:20 pm #164641

Kor wrote:Taking suggestions for more.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/ ... de_to_Rock

coiax · Post by **coiax** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:29 pm #164642

I think there may be some sort of duplication bug. Diamond is pretty rare, and when I got enough diamond sheets to make a new diamond golem, it was impressive. But then later, another diamond golem walked in, and I assume that somehow another ghost managed to spawn in with the old alert?

Also, feedback, there are no bedsheets for improv surgery, no backpacks (maybe intentional).

Attaching a golem's "type" as a forename would make sense with the list of names we have, Gold Mountain, Diamond Quarry, Plasma Fissure, that sort of thing.

Attached are some geology terms I thought were quasi suitable for names.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:33 pm #164643

I wonder what effect the golem source minerals have, anyway.

coiax · Post by **coiax** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:55 pm #164644

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-statio ... in_code.dm

Here's some code.

coiax · Post by **coiax** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:01 pm #164645

And I looked it up, mineral golems are identical to regular golems in every way apart from blacklisting them from magic mirrors.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:07 pm #164646

Yes, seems that way.

Note to self, learn how to git and kill all the rogue "it's".

coiax · Post by **coiax** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:02 pm #164656

More feedback, having multiple ORMs I'm sure seemed like a good idea, but in practice you end up with a handful of minerals spread across them, and it's a lot of effort tallying how much we have of each type. Multiple ORMs is fine if we had some sort of smartfridge for metals to put it all in.

Ezel · Post by **Ezel** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:59 pm #164685

Make the free golems butcherable for their source minerals with the pickaxe

coiax · Post by **coiax** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:19 am #164697

Ezel wrote:Make the free golems butcherable for their source minerals with the pickaxe

The original Free Golems wouldn't have a material. It's a good idea though, deaths are pretty common. Maybe not get all the material back though. Or you could get a soulshard of some kind and put it in a new shell. I dunno.

Ezel · Post by **Ezel** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:43 am #164761

Make it drop 3 sheets

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:41 pm #165106

Free Golems could do with a backpack tbh. Just my thought.

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:44 pm #165107

Kor wrote:var/golem_name = pick("Quartz", "Crystal", "Boulder", "Mountain", "Rock", "Stalagmite", "Stalagtite", "Sediment", "Geode", "Igneous", "Quarry", "Shale", "Obsidian", "Chasm", "Stone", "Oynx", "Iron", "Quake", "Grotto","Landslide","Mineral", "Slag", "Pebble", "Gravel", "Pyrite", "Flint", "Sand")

Are all the current names. Taking suggestions for more.

Just take every mineral name that's in DF, for starters.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:03 am #165151

lumipharon wrote:
Kor wrote:var/golem_name = pick("Quartz", "Crystal", "Boulder", "Mountain", "Rock", "Stalagmite", "Stalagtite", "Sediment", "Geode", "Igneous", "Quarry", "Shale", "Obsidian", "Chasm", "Stone", "Oynx", "Iron", "Quake", "Grotto","Landslide","Mineral", "Slag", "Pebble", "Gravel", "Pyrite", "Flint", "Sand")

Are all the current names. Taking suggestions for more.
Just take every mineral name that's in DF, for starters.

Bippity, Boppity,Boop

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:14 am #165735

Give miners mesons back.

There's no fear, no sense of suspense, and no enjoyment out of walking into the darkness into an instant goliath stun because you can't see that shit on the ground and getting ganked by 2 mining mobs you would've been able to see the presence of with mesons. There's nothing to be gained by keeping them gone. Even discovering rooms through walls is a moot point because you can only see the outlines of said rooms through the walls, not the actual contents of them so you would still have to find a way inside for you to discover things. Knowing the existence of something and having to find a way inside of it is more engaging and fun than not knowing it exists in the first place. That's literally the entire appeal behind the unfinished Necropolis.

Also goliath tentacles are nearly invisible on the lavaland floor sprite, please change them, the stun was fine before because it had contrast between the floor and itself and because you had mesons so you could at least guess where goliaths might be. Right now you just walk into the pitch blackness get stunned and die, most miners die because of this.

Also pls buff the explorer armor it sucks now

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:26 am

>you would've been able to see the presence of with mesons

Not sure what you mean? Mobs are still invisible with mesons, though I guess easier to see at visions edge. But yeah I said I'm open to reverting to mesons, I think I"ll just do it in another PR.

>Also pls buff the explorer armor it sucks now

It has better armour stats than the hardsuit and no slowdown.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:30 am #165742

I've heard from a lot of people that it has less than the hardsuit, so if I'm wrong on that then everyone is wrong.

Also yeah the mobs were invisible with mesons without light but when mobs walk into asteroid turfs or the mining walls, they break them, so if you see 2 long sections of mining wall then a mob was almost guaranteed to be there because of how mining generates its turfs, which meant you could predict their positions.

ShadowDimentio · Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:54 am

Kor wrote:>you would've been able to see the presence of with mesons

Not sure what you mean? Mobs are still invisible with mesons, though I guess easier to see at visions edge. But yeah I said I'm open to reverting to mesons, I think I"ll just do it in another PR.

>Also pls buff the explorer armor it sucks now

It has better armour stats than the hardsuit and no slowdown.

The hardsuit is spaceproof. Meanwhile the explorer armor starts killing you if gibonite explodes.

Put some sealant in the miner vendor for like 1000 points that spaceproof it.

onleavedontatme · Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:01 am

ShadowDimentio wrote:
Kor wrote:>you would've been able to see the presence of with mesons

Not sure what you mean? Mobs are still invisible with mesons, though I guess easier to see at visions edge. But yeah I said I'm open to reverting to mesons, I think I"ll just do it in another PR.

>Also pls buff the explorer armor it sucks now

It has better armour stats than the hardsuit and no slowdown.
The hardsuit is spaceproof. Meanwhile the explorer armor starts killing you if gibonite explodes.

Put some sealant in the miner vendor for like 1000 points that spaceproof it.

Gibtonite should not be causing vacuum