Ratvar, the Clockwork Justiciar

[InsaneHyena]

Bottom post of the previous page:

It is currently impossible to convert a cyborg, unless he WANTS to be converted. Flashes stun them only for a few short seconds now (because buffing silicons is what coders are about now), and stun visor doesn't work on them at all.

[ChangelingRain]

It is currently impossible to convert a cyborg, unless he WANTS to be converted. Flashes stun them only for a few short seconds now (because buffing silicons is what coders are about now), and stun visor doesn't work on them at all.

The stun visor works on them fine, you just make to make sure the cyborg is still caught in the blast.

[Gun Hog]

Chuck a steampunk spear at it, the stun is long enough if you are quick.

[Anonmare]

It is a bit odd that Ratvar cultists, of all antag types, don't have an EMP of any sorts.

[metacide]

Now that the novelty has worn off, Ratvar is clearly more or less the same as cult but more OP earlier on. As with cult, either you catch it really early, call shuttle right away and force it through against recallers, or the station gets rapidly wrecked by boring OP stuff and constructs. Neither of these options is much fun. At least with cult you can't make runes off the station and summoning is quick, but with clockcult dull off-station bases happen plenty, with clockcult easily becoming unstoppably powerful before coming back to kill everyone. At least cult can summon Nar-Sie quickly, but even with OP clockcult gear where after a short while it usually becomes evident that clockcult will win, it actually takes ages of boring summoning crap that no one cares for before they actually do, with a portal invulnerable to bombs, which infinitely delays shuttle departure meaning you can't have interesting close-calls like Nar-Sie. Even when Ratvar arrives you have to wait for shuttle call and landing. At least with cult you might have the AI, but Ratvar rapidly converts the silicons most times, on top of all the other powers they have. Clockcult drones get mass produced and can very easily run up to anyone and weldertank bomb them, then drag them into space.

A lot of effort has clearly gone into making it, the sprites and sounds and such are kind of neat, but that just makes it all the more disappointing when the end result is just easy-mode cult and plays pretty much the same, being one of that hallowed group of roundtypes where it's usually best to just DC and do something more interesting, then perhaps check back later to see if it's over. I can see loads of little adjustments going on over at GitHub, but mostly cleaning things up and making things clearer, not improving gameplay. Until there's more to differentiate it from bloodcult, perhaps a few nerfs here and there (plus portal speed buffs for clear victories as well), perhaps the round chances could be brought down a little too?

tl:dr clockcult novelty has worn off, it's a more OP reskin of cult and has all its failings, with more boredom thrown in for good measure

[Xhuis]

So how do you suggest we can improve it? I'm willing to hear all suggestions.

[InsaneHyena]

We had a long discussion about it in OOC, and Amelius will soon post the first draft of nerfs on github.

[metacide]

I did mention some suggestions in my feedback, to clarify:

• Make all clockcult stuff turn to dust on non-station z-levels
  Make drone production harder and drones weaker
  Make it possible to destroy portals with bombs
  Speed up summoning - it takes ages even with no opposition and I've never seen it countered
  Let emergency shuttle depart while summoning and make it minor clockcult victory if it leaves
  Make summoning Ratvar end the round in two minutes (1st shuttle>station, 2nd shuttle>centcom)

Don't get me wrong I think the spritework etc is pretty cool, but after seeing it lots of times the novelty does wear off and the gameplay limitations become a bit more apparent.

[Xhuis]

-snip-

I will never approve anything that Amelius makes. Keep him off my fucking gamemode and let someone else do it.

• Make all clockcult stuff turn to dust on non-station z-levels
  Make drone production harder and drones weaker
  Make it possible to destroy portals with bombs
  Speed up summoning - it takes ages even with no opposition and I've never seen it countered
  Let emergency shuttle depart while summoning and make it minor clockcult victory if it leaves
  Make summoning Ratvar end the round in two minutes (1st shuttle>station, 2nd shuttle>centcom)

• I tried to make clockcult stuff hindered on non-station Zs, but it got shot down by maintain memes
• Not sure how cogscarabs are right now - I didn't make them, Joan did.
• Good idea
• I think it's in a fine spot right now
• Could be done
• Sure, why not

I'm currently doing some rewrites to gamemode code, so once I finish that I'll fix up the stuff you mentioned. Thanks for the feedback.

[InsaneHyena]

If it's your gamemode, then maybe you can fix it?

[Xhuis]

once I finish that I'll fix up the stuff you mentioned

Guess what I just finished?

[ShadowDimentio]

Desperately needs a tier 1 stun. The explodey goggles never work, and the runes are only good for use as mines in maint. The entire tier 1 loadout shouldn't be beaten by a stunbaton.

And if not a stun, a mute. Whenever I would baton and try to convert someone they'd chelp and the shuttle would get called.