/tg/Station 13

Even though we have the issues tracker on github its really not enough I personally feel we should try to get someway to report from ingame and try to get a focus every so often for people to test for general bugs to confirm they exist.

If not for coders it could at least be done to try and make it so it seems that there is at least a interest it could even entail into becoming huge events by admins pressing all the buttons the only time no restrictions are for.

I know a fair few of people feel it is enough but we could create a new system which gets people who want to test can get involved easily.

I would like some sort of in-game pre-formatted bug reporter.

Bluespace wrote:I would like some sort of in-game pre-formatted bug reporter.

That would be nice. Or at least a way for admins to send IRC messages to #coderbus, to forward bugs people ahelp.

I've always been under the distinct impression that if we notice bugs or even have them ahelped, that sort of thing isn't wanted in #coderbus at all.

I honestly can't tell whats a bug or a legit feature unless it's really obvious. Like can't put stuff on tables obvious.

Bluespace wrote:I would like some sort of in-game pre-formatted bug reporter.

I was planning to look into this ages ago. A way to create a github issue without having to register an account would be good, especially if it could be done from inside the game, as you could do stuff like automatically including time, roundtype, excerpts from the runtime log or whatever.
Need to investigate further.

It does pete this is why i made a thread its more a administrative maintanace issue ill try to talk to the buses about it on monday.

How about a reward for bug reporting shit

You can't expect players to want things removed that they could exploit, example

I found if you left the arcade machine window up, then have a chaplain beat you retarded, then started mashing ATTACK it would attack the boss without changing the screen so it would start spraying out prizes because you were too stupid to use the machine, it worked on pretty much anything too

That was fun as fuck, I filled entire wings of the stations with singulo toys and had pop gun monopoly, the only reason it got fixed was an admin saw a stack of 200+ toys and asked me "how the fuck are you doing that"

So why would players report bugs and exploits when they don't stand to benefit.

Hibbles wrote:I've always been under the distinct impression that if we notice bugs or even have them ahelped, that sort of thing isn't wanted in #coderbus at all.

Yeah, most of the time it isn't. Bug reports in #coderbus aren't that useful, since IRC is very fast (most of the time). Issues get put on a big scary counter that keeps going up and that tracks how many bugs there are (hint: it's a lot) and that people can find easily.

TheTerbs wrote:How about a reward for bug reporting shit

You can't expect players to want things removed that they could exploit, example

I found if you left the arcade machine window up, then have a chaplain beat you retarded, then started mashing ATTACK it would attack the boss without changing the screen so it would start spraying out prizes because you were too stupid to use the machine, it worked on pretty much anything too

That was fun as fuck, I filled entire wings of the stations with singulo toys and had pop gun monopoly, the only reason it got fixed was an admin saw a stack of 200+ toys and asked me "how the fuck are you doing that"

So why would players report bugs and exploits when they don't stand to benefit.

Well I can see that just dosent run a update check to see what has occured to you since when you started playing should be a relatively simple fix.

I can see what you mean though Terbs

Bugs go unreported because bugs don't get fixed, so there's no point reporting them.

Bugs don't get fixed because people keep introducing more bugs, so there's no point fixing them.

More bugs keep getting introduced because of feature flip-flop and directionless development.

The only time we got the issues list under control is when we eliminated the latter problem (and hence the other problems) by enforcing a code-freeze.


Bugreporting from in-game was veto'd for years because it would result in really low-quality bug reports. And multiple tickets per bug.

"So why would players report bugs and exploits when they don't stand to benefit." Not everybody is sociopathic, Terbs.

An in-game solution would be good. The less effort it takes, the more reports you get.

carnie wrote: Bugreporting from in-game was veto'd for years because it would result in really low-quality bug reports. And multiple tickets per bug.

You could solve that by designating someone to sift through them and make full reports on github.
Since nobody wants to do that, you could make it a weekly rotation among maintainers.

A feature freeze did wonders last time, and we now have over 400 issues.

Wild Bill wrote:An in-game solution would be good. The less effort it takes, the more reports you get.

carnie wrote: Bugreporting from in-game was veto'd for years because it would result in really low-quality bug reports. And multiple tickets per bug.

You could solve that by designating someone to sift through them and make full reports on github.
Since nobody wants to do that, you could make it a weekly rotation among maintainers.

I talked about it on coderbus and thats not the solution i got rock to agree there needs to be a ingame link to the github issues thing its on his todo list of high priority depends on forum stuff getting done first though.

I understand why they say it wont work a bit now everyone ask yourself willingly if you will accept looking through crappy bug reports to generate a good bug report for this community I dont know if most people would be willing.

Giacom wrote:A feature freeze did wonders last time, and we now have over 400 issues.

As usual, I am totally for this. Last push to get one done fell through. I know it will make a lot of coders disappear during the duration, but they wouldn' havee written a bugfix anyway, so it works for the maintainers.

A feature freeze would be good, maybe we could also get some optimizations/fixes in for some of the laggier and buggier elements of the game (mob-code, anyone?) as well if this were to happen.

I support a feature freeze.

It would be a good thing. It's not like there are huge overhauls waiting to be merged right now. Those can wait.

I agree on the huge overhauls going in first they will just bring more bugs if done this way its better to do a feature freeze until at least ones that are mostly done are in.

Oh no Jalleo. I was thinking of making a feature freeze BEFORE the overhauls going in. That way it will be easier to track the bugs related to big overhauls

First bug reported using the in-game bug reporter: "In-game bug reporter breaks when I try to submit anything, I had to use href trickery to submit this one!"

JJRcop wrote:First bug reported using the in-game bug reporter: "In-game bug reporter breaks when I try to submit anything, I had to use href trickery to submit this one!"

10/10

How does one distinguish a bug from anything else in this game. It's like Bethesda and Black Isle had a love child and thus dreamseeker was born.

Heres an idea:
Updates to the code go in bi-weekly, the time between used solely for fixing bugs.
Gives everyone twelve days (give or take) to find the new batch of bugs and have them looked at.

Maybe we should just have a link somewhere to the github for the various servers?

Such as: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-statio ... state=open for TG

There are two ways to get people to report bugs.

1: Incentive people to report bugs.

2: Make it REALLY easy to report a bug.

We have neither, I would prefer if we could use option two.

The best way to do this is a in game button you press, which is easily visible, that takes a screenshot, lets you type a title and relevant text and sends it off somewhere like Github. This would make bug reporting infinitly easier for most people and it means they don't have to go out of their way to report a bug.

Which is the main reason, right now players have to go out of their way to report a bug.

*EDIT* - Here's a run down of how average player wants to report a bug.

A player discovers a (hypothetical) bug that allows him to gain twice the amount of shots out of a Egun. He wants to report it as a bug, here is what he would have to do under the current system.

1: Figure out where the heck you even go to report bugs.
2: Find the TG/NT Station Github page.
3: Register an account with Github.
4: Figure out that Issues = Bug reporting.
5: Post the bug report.

A good system should do this.

1: Click the Bug Report button in game
2: Post the bug report.

Maybe players should adminhelp found bugs, and admins will report them.

Kelenius wrote:Maybe players should adminhelp found bugs, and admins will report them.

Some players do, but we're not the one experiencing the bug, and if we can't reproduce it, how can we report it?
"Lings sometimes can't revive." isn't a valid bug report.

Steelpoint wrote:stuff

Show Server Revision under the OOC tab already has a REPORT BUG HERE button that takes you straight to https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/new
From there you just need a github account, which is no harder to make than the forum or byond account everyone already has.

As is often the case with SS13, the solution to the problem is already there, it's just that most people don't know about it.

Cheridan wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:stuff

Show Server Revision under the OOC tab already has a REPORT BUG HERE button that takes you straight to https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/new
From there you just need a github account, which is no harder to make than the forum or byond account everyone already has.

As is often the case with SS13, the solution to the problem is already there, it's just that most people don't know about it.

All that really does is alter the steps taken by a new to bug reporting player.

1: Figure out where the heck you even go to report bugs.
2: Figure out a button that has NO relation to bug reporting gives you a link to the place where you can lodge a bug report.
3: Register an account with Github.
4: Post the bug report.

The solution is there, its just not actually used properly. I still think streamlining the process so that a player does not have to create a Github account is better but at least make SOME kind of button that says "BUG REPORT" for ease of use, instead of hiding it behind a button that does not even hint at it being related to bug reporting.

carnie wrote:
"So why would players report bugs and exploits when they don't stand to benefit." Not everybody is sociopathic, Terbs.

that isnt being a sociopath, thats how people work you basic ass bitch

The carpet bug has not been fixed in over a year and a half. If you take up carpet and put it back down, it lacks a sprite.

Git hub's issue tracker is just shit anyway, and I don't blame people for not wanting to make an account just to report some minor issue.

There was talk of using a separate issue tracker before but nothing really came to fruition.

420goslingboy69 wrote:The carpet bug has not been fixed in over a year and a half. If you take up carpet and put it back down, it lacks a sprite.

It's been reported, this is really just laziness.

There's now a Report Bug-page in the wiki.

I contacted the Github support asking if it's possible to make an account for Github, which password (or any other settings) could not be changed (so some ass wouldn't change the public account's password immediately if it's pw was in the wiki)?

They replied:

> Is it possible to make an account for Github, which password (or any other settings) could not be changed?

This isn't possible, however one approach to solving the problem might be to create a simple application which allowed anonymous people to submit bug reports, which could use the GitHub API to create issues on your repository, on behalf of a specific user (which could just be created for the purpose of reporting issues):
https://developer.github.com/v3/issues/

Oh and also there's no info in the game how to get the SERVER REVISION, which is also the first question in the format you insist people using (although I see, and have also made, bug reports not using it all the time and no one really cares, things get fixed either way, so it it really necessary?).

Having the first step of reporting a bug being this weird ("wtf is a server revision? how do i get it!?") makes me think it's a wonder people actually report any bugs at all.

Suggestion: Change the server revision question to be the last question. Explain clearly how to get the server revision from the game. Have people tell what they wanna tell (what happened) in the first step and by the time they get to the last step, they will be pissed to search the server revision but they've already gone through so much trouble now that they'll probably do it. Or just outright remove it or replace with just a simple "What server were you on?".

Revision helps to narrow down when the bug started. Although usually one can guess the revision based on the date submitted, I suppose. I was under the impression the template had a whole line of "type show-server-revision ingame to get it".