/tg/Station 13

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16570

Its simple, it ports smooth movement that bay/vg/goon/almost all the servers/etc use.

It does this by removing two lines.

This doesn't affect run speed, but it does feel like it's slower with the smoother movement

Their movement feels much better so yeah it's cool

I have no idea if I'll like this or not until I try it on a non-laggy server.

I always thought it was related to network performance and not code.

Reposting my thoughts from the pull

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Was never a fan of this, having the character so perfectly centered on the screen at all time gave me a sense of the world moving around the character instead of the character moving around the world.

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After some playing around with this on a live server I'm moving this from "I have some subjective problems with this but I acknowlege that it might be a good idea" to "I actively dislike this and would be less likely to play the game if I had to deal with this"

The smoothness is distracting, everyone looks like they're slowly skating on a very rough slab of ice, it legitimately makes me feel a sensation almost like a weak form of carsickness.

Might be alright for things other than mobs (like thrown objects), but for things that are supposed to give the sensation of "this is deliberate movement that could change direction or stop at any moment" it just looks really bad.

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Also gotta say the "Well everyone else is using this so why aren't we?" argument is pretty weak here. Those server were either always like that or made a tragic mistake later on in their development by changing something so intrinsic to the game. Sacrificing player familiarity is usually a bad move in my opinion. Either it gets done slowly enough to where people can't really notice or doesn't happen at all. This is just too jarring as a one step change.

test it for a week

make a poll

this is one of those things where making a poll makes the most sense tbh

I've played with it in gloom a bit and didn't like, same thing now in Sybil(it was merged for testing). I really didn't like, honestly doesn't feel any smoother than before, instead it feels like it makes you slower, can be really noticiable when you first start moving. I'll try it for a few more days and edit/post about my overall feelings about this new movement, this was more a first impression or so about it.

I'll have to play with it for a while, but for now I'm giving it a tentative thumbs up.

Incoming wrote:Reposting my thoughts from the pull

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Was never a fan of this, having the character so perfectly centered on the screen at all time gave me a sense of the world moving around the character instead of the character moving around the world.

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After some playing around with this on a live server I'm moving this from "I have some subjective problems with this but I acknowlege that it might be a good idea" to "I actively dislike this and would be less likely to play the game if I had to deal with this"

The smoothness is distracting, everyone looks like they're slowly skating on a very rough slab of ice, it legitimately makes me feel a sensation almost like a weak form of carsickness.

Might be alright for things other than mobs (like thrown objects), but for things that are supposed to give the sensation of "this is deliberate movement that could change direction or stop at any moment" it just looks really bad.

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Also gotta say the "Well everyone else is using this so why aren't we?" argument is pretty weak here. Those server were either always like that or made a tragic mistake later on in their development by changing something so intrinsic to the game. Sacrificing player familiarity is usually a bad move in my opinion. Either it gets done slowly enough to where people can't really notice or doesn't happen at all. This is just too jarring as a one step change.

I agree with incoming on this one, it feels really floaty and gross, especially when you're moving at slow speeds like you're wearing a hardsuit or are hurt. When you go slow enough, you come to a complete stop before starting to move again which makes me feel like I'm moving a piece on a chess board instead of controlling a character. In addition, I constantly see people jutting back and forth while they're running along, I think especially when they're rounding corners, which is really weird too.

Edit: With normal movement you're always moving at the same speed, so you can tell how fast you're going and when to round a corner when you're in a hurry. With this movement you're constantly jittering back and forth and moving at different speeds (especially when you're slowed down) which makes it way more frustrating to try

The more I see the less I like, and I could phrase that a million different ways but the emotion stays the same.

Besides changing the visible range of the world I would argue there's no single change that is as drastic as this. All this to allow for higher FPS that no one is even asking for.

Why?

Maybe this is all in my head, but you seem to keep moving much farther after you stop holding down the key when it is lagging

The concept is good but it needs polish.

To be honest, one of the reasons i love sybil so much was it's responsive, non-sluggish movement. It felt like i was in control of my character. This new movement system feels like there's a delay of about a second or more for me. This means getting through a door im going back and forth trying to get through.

All other servers that had this, goon specifically, felt like i was not the one controlling the character. It's like i push the keys telling someone else what key to push and i have to wait for them to control my character. I think i started playing SS13 3 years ago and started on goon, it has always felt that same way which is why i stayed on tg/sybil most of that time. Best way i can compare it is the difference between playing CS:S and ARMA ... ARMA you float around never really feeling in control. The new movement system is ARMA. imo, i really hate it o_O

Not a fan. It makes movement lag more noticeable and just feels weird in an intangible way.

EDIT: Dunno if it's my connection or what, but it's smooth for a second or two, jerks and goes back to smooth. Super off-putting.

Pls go and stay go.

p l e a s e revert

REMOVE
E
M
O
V
E

it's terrible. my AI eye seems to jump like twice as far with one keypress, it went from a little jerky at top speed to a choppy full screen teleport.

why was this implemented without testing it seems really fucked up man, like if this is the way it's supposed to work how can anyone even deal with this shit it's terrible

It bad

Alright, the only opinion I have on this is that you seem to be trying to move the game in the direction of higher FPS, MSO.

I can appreciate that but the game isn't meant for high FPS, lag makes the game absolutely unplayable at those high framerates which is why it's always been capped.

Low FPS sort of has always worked as a way to lag compensate, which has been fair for everyone especially since we have players all over the world on sybil.

Kills my eyes and looks terrible

Is there any way to correct the movement lag that this introduces? I know the current implementation is shit but I don't think we should trash the entire idea just yet, at least not until we know that there is no way to fix the issue associated with this.

Luke Cox wrote:Is there any way to correct the movement lag that this introduces? I know the current implementation is shit but I don't think we should trash the entire idea just yet, at least not until we know that there is no way to fix the issue associated with this.

MSO mentioned something about a BYOND bug, so we should be able to just shoot a memo lummox's way before 510 hits shelves and we'll get it fixed

This could be amazing IF we can eliminate the movement lag associated with it. As it is, it feels jerky and clunky.

i'd try it out but i'm getting pretty bad ping spikes and lag because of this and idk why :^^^^)

Yeah this is actually pretty nice.

The only downside is you really feel it when you start lagging, whereas before the sort of choppy movement would hide some small ping issues.

I don't like it might be a connection thing but it makes the stuttering unreal for me.

I suggest we withhold all judgement until we see this with the BYOND bug causing the stuttering fixed in 510. That will give us a much more accurate impression of what this will actually be like

Luke Cox wrote:I suggest we withhold all judgement until we see this with the BYOND bug causing the stuttering fixed in 510. That will give us a much more accurate impression of what this will actually be like

"lets all suffer and pretend nothing is wrong for an indeterminate period of time because there is a very slim chance that it won't suck in the future"

what the heck

I can't feel the difference. *shrug*

Drynwyn wrote:I can't feel the difference. *shrug*

If your experience don't predate the last 24 hours or so that's because we test merged it off

Incoming wrote:

Drynwyn wrote:I can't feel the difference. *shrug*

If your experience don't predate the last 24 hours or so that's because we test merged it off

Its still active on bagil, so you can easily get a side by side comparison. Or at least you could but the server is ded at the moment.

Super Aggro Crag wrote:

Luke Cox wrote:I suggest we withhold all judgement until we see this with the BYOND bug causing the stuttering fixed in 510. That will give us a much more accurate impression of what this will actually be like

"lets all suffer and pretend nothing is wrong for an indeterminate period of time because there is a very slim chance that it won't suck in the future"

what the heck

Did you not read what goofball said? Currently, BYOND bugs are preventing it from working. When they fix it, this should work a million times better. It's obviously shit right now, but we shouldn't give up on the idea entirely.

Luke Cox wrote:

Super Aggro Crag wrote:

Luke Cox wrote:I suggest we withhold all judgement until we see this with the BYOND bug causing the stuttering fixed in 510. That will give us a much more accurate impression of what this will actually be like

"lets all suffer and pretend nothing is wrong for an indeterminate period of time because there is a very slim chance that it won't suck in the future"

what the heck

Did you not read what goofball said? Currently, BYOND bugs are preventing it from working. When they fix it, this should work a million times better. It's obviously shit right now, but we shouldn't give up on the idea entirely.

"I believe anything Goofball says"

ok are you TRYING to go to Big Dummy Babyjail or what, Loose Socks?

I know Goofball is a dipshit but MSO is the one who found out that it was a BYOND issue. Revert the change for now, re-release it when BYOND is fixed.

Luke Cox wrote:Revert the change for now, re-release test merge it when BYOND is fixed.

This is the correct answer.
Thread can be closed.

Looks absolutely awful at lower FPS (such as default 11) and has a stuttering problem at any framerate high enough (such as 20), where the mob sprite stutters while moving.

I hate it.

It's been reverted for now.

Good. I like the idea but as I said before, this cannot work until the bug in BYOND causing the lag is fixed.