Pull and Grab Merged

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Sat May 28, 2016 4:25 am #181105

Nerf to the already nerfed grabs, thanks Phil

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sat May 28, 2016 4:29 am #181107

The biggest issue is the agressive grab taking like 5 secs to grab, no real reason to that...

Sat May 28, 2016 4:32 am

this would be easy to tweak but le feature freeze

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Sat May 28, 2016 8:36 am #181171

Feature freeze and it still got merged

Nice, not even sticking to their own rules

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Sat May 28, 2016 8:46 am #181173

wait so a feature is merged during freeze but it can't be tweaked because feature freeze?

you can't make this shit up guys

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Sat May 28, 2016 8:49 am #181175

Don't forget, it's bugged to shit

You can't upgrade your grabs with the hotkey, you have to actually click on the guy, and borgs can't pull at all

Incomptinence · Sat May 28, 2016 9:10 am

Oh well then I didn't know the next item on the anti silicon agenda was euthanasia for mediborgs.

Remove one section of pipe in atmos, AI and borg proofed now! YAAAAY!

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Sat May 28, 2016 9:32 am #181181

Takeguru wrote:Feature freeze and it still got merged

Nice, not even sticking to their own rules

It was a refactor, not meant to change any intended behavior. Which is perfectly fine.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... -221710982

Grazyn wrote:wait so a feature is merged during freeze but it can't be tweaked because feature freeze?

you can't make this shit up guys

He's allowed to make further tweaks.

lzimann wrote:The biggest issue is the agressive grab taking like 5 secs to grab, no real reason to that...

The duration now is what it "should" have been. The hotkey was enabling people to ignore the cooldowns.

you guys should work on getting educated first and getting mad second

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Sat May 28, 2016 11:27 am #181194

Oh so it's one of those "bugfixes" to something that has been like that for years, i.e. a nerf

Also now you can't pull and grab at the same time, this smells like a nerf to me too

Lumbermancer · Sat May 28, 2016 12:49 pm

Takeguru wrote:You can't upgrade your grabs with the hotkeyl

I never could upgrade the grab with hotkey anyway, I always had to click on the grab icon with mouse.

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Sat May 28, 2016 2:47 pm #181228

it's really buggy. i seem to lose passive grabs for no reason. it took me about 5 minutes to move the AI through security because it would randomly ungrab every 2-5 tiles

pls fix

onleavedontatme · Sat May 28, 2016 2:58 pm

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/17992

It's been fixed

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Sat May 28, 2016 6:19 pm #181300

Cik wrote:it's really buggy. i seem to lose passive grabs for no reason. it took me about 5 minutes to move the AI through security because it would randomly ungrab every 2-5 tiles

pls fix

Actually I haven't fixed this particular case yet, will do asap.

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Sat May 28, 2016 6:43 pm #181316

Cheridan wrote:
Takeguru wrote:Feature freeze and it still got merged

Nice, not even sticking to their own rules
It was a refactor, not meant to change any intended behavior. Which is perfectly fine.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... -221710982

It doesn't matter if it was meant to or not, it's still a significant change to anything grab related in combat

With this, there is now no reason to ever use a grab in combat, it can take an upward of ten seconds with lag and other factors to throw someone, and unless you're in a hazardous place throws are shit too

Good luck ever getting a chokehold on someone unless they're AFK or already unconscious because that takes even longer

Also, the grab sound effect whenever you just start pulling something and every living thing throwing off glaring red text in chat when you just want to pull it are annoying

ShadowDimentio · Sat May 28, 2016 7:18 pm

Cheridan your changes have been fucking shit lately.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sat May 28, 2016 8:18 pm #181350

ShadowDimentio wrote:Cheridan your changes have been fucking shit lately.

You're an idiot.

Super Aggro Crag · Sat May 28, 2016 10:55 pm

great feedback goofball you cockjuggling scat-clown

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Sat May 28, 2016 11:05 pm #181412

Cheridan your changes have been fucking shit lately.

The changes are mine, Cheri only merged my PR.

It doesn't matter if it was meant to or not, it's still a significant change to anything grab related in combat

With this, there is now no reason to ever use a grab in combat, it can take an upward of ten seconds with lag and other factors to throw someone, and unless you're in a hazardous place throws are shit too.

Good luck ever getting a chokehold on someone unless they're AFK or already unconscious because that takes even longer

Also, the grab sound effect whenever you just start pulling something and every living thing throwing off glaring red text in chat when you just want to pull it are annoying

People here seem to think that I care about every tiny change I made to gameplay. I actually don't, the gameplay was just in the way of my refactor.
You want no grab sound when doing a simple pull? Fine, I don't care either way.
You want grab upgrade to be faster? Fine, I don't care.
You want grab upgrade to not require you and your victim to stand still? It's doable, and I don't really care either way.

Make a poll or something, and I'll change the gameplay.

Sat May 28, 2016 11:30 pm

phil pretty much all the things you listed are good changes, i'd also like upgrading with the hotkey back if that's possible

Post by **oranges** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:27 am #181535

Super Aggro Crag wrote:great feedback goofball you cockjuggling scat-clown

Try to read the thread before blasting people SaC

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun May 29, 2016 12:03 pm #181584

Could it be that the grab """refactor""" made xenomming impossible?

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Sun May 29, 2016 2:24 pm #181622

i'd also like upgrading with the hotkey back if that's possible

Pretty much impossible since there's no longer an actual item in your hand when grabbing.

Could it be that the grab """refactor""" made xenomming impossible?

It should work fine, I tested xeno devouring a human.

If people want grab upgrades to not require both mob to stand still, I can change the system by using click cooldown instead of a timer. The downside would be that you wouldn't be able to click anything during the cooldown and since grab upgrade needs to be at least a couple seconds long, it would be noticeable.

I can reduce the upgrade time to 3 seconds, or even 2 seconds and counterbalance it by separating pull and passive grab again, which would mean you'd need to do one additional grab upgrade to reach the kill grab.

I could also make the timer/click cooldown variable depending on the grab level we're upgrading to, so upgrading to an agressive grab is faster than a kill grab.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun May 29, 2016 3:22 pm #181631

The second between ctrl+clicking and the grab actually happening is really throwing me off. It should be instant, plus the sound effect and red text makes people freak out.

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Sun May 29, 2016 3:25 pm #181634

I made the grab upgrades faster: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/18038

The second between ctrl+clicking and the grab actually happening is really throwing me off. It should be instant, plus the sound effect and red text makes people freak out.

That shouldn't be happening, and it works fine for me, pulling IS instantaneous. Are you talking human grabbing human? If it happens to you again, make an issue report.
The red text is here because I merged pull and passive grab together. Without it the only warning message the player'd get is the message that they've been aggressively grabbed (which means they are already restrained).
The whoosh sound when pulling is here for the same reason.

confused rock · Sun May 29, 2016 11:46 pm

how does this change sleeping carp?

TechnoAlchemist · Mon May 30, 2016 12:13 am

Does ctrl+click grab? if not it should, that would be really nice so I don't have to switch intents.

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:28 am #181831

It basically doesn't affect sleeping carp, I made sure not to change any functionality or gameplay balance.

ctrl+click pulls, which is technically a passive grab now. You can't aggressively grab with ctrl+click, it might be possible to change.

ShadowDimentio · Mon May 30, 2016 7:08 am

I despise how long it takes to aggressive grab now. Make it instant and usable with the action key, I want tabling to be a thing again.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon May 30, 2016 7:19 am #181945

Tabling is kind of a shit game mechanic I'm glad it's dead as a tactical maneuver

Maybe someone can work it into a kung fu combo or something

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Mon May 30, 2016 11:44 am #181972

ShadowDimentio wrote:I despise how long it takes to aggressive grab now. Make it instant and usable with the action key, I want tabling to be a thing again.

1 second is too much for you?

TechnoAlchemist · Mon May 30, 2016 11:56 am

One second is a long ass time compared to how it was before I must say

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:04 pm #181978

If you're pulling a cuffed person and someone (you included) bumps into them you'll lose the pull/grab and they'll dart off - this is a major sec nerf.

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:17 pm #181983

Remember that being able to get aggressive grab nearly instantly in the old system was due to an exploit with hotkeys. People who didn't use hotkeys in the old system had to wait 2 or 3 seconds to get their aggressive grab.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:23 pm #181986

And, behold, it was very good.

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:25 pm #181987

Malkevin wrote:If you're pulling a cuffed person and someone (you included) bumps into them you'll lose the pull/grab and they'll dart off - this is a major sec nerf.

Can't reproduce this bug, a pulled handcuffed person cannot be pushed or position swapped by a person other than the puller. But that other person can break your pull/grab by grabbing the handcuffed person themselves.

If you are the puller and don't want to push your victim away, stay on help or grab intent. I changed this so you could be able to swap position with your victim because getting stuck in a corridor because of the handcuffed person you're pulling is terrible. If you prefer the old system I can always revert that specific change.

confused rock · Mon May 30, 2016 1:52 pm

you used to be able to instantly get people in a chokehold with sleeping carp, can you do that still?

Lumbermancer · Mon May 30, 2016 2:44 pm

When AI moves camera while the core is pulled, pull will be resisted and broken.

phil235 · Post by **phil235** » Mon May 30, 2016 2:46 pm #182031

The unloved rock wrote:you used to be able to instantly get people in a chokehold with sleeping carp, can you do that still?

You used to be able to because of an exploit using hotkeys. With the new system sleeping carp can still give you an instant agressive grab (which restrains the victim, making them drop the stuff in their hands and make them unable to use their hand).

ShadowDimentio · Mon May 30, 2016 6:59 pm

phil235 wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:I despise how long it takes to aggressive grab now. Make it instant and usable with the action key, I want tabling to be a thing again.
1 second is too much for you?

It still hadn't been merged at time of posting but yes, instant aggro grabs was fun and let you throw and table people. #makegrabsgreatagain