Tele-Gulag

Bolien · Post by **Bolien** » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:40 pm #192466

Pretty bitching new feature, thanks Izimann for adding this.
Actually making security bearable to play tbh.

Anyway, I think the gulag needs to be revamped a bit since there will be an influx of usage.
Specifically we need more miner gear, or for the machine to dispense it upon arrival.

One round today the captain and I sent five people to the gulag, mostly low point crimes (around 200).
There is only four sets of gear so this causes fights or people to just suicide instead of participating.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:51 pm #192471

> Tele-gulag thinning the grey-shit horde through natural selection

I don't see the problem

Lumbermancer · Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:55 pm

Another splendid addition to security thanks to yours truly. And coders of course.

InsaneHyena · Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:05 pm

> Playing security is actually bearable now
Thanks, coderbus

Bolien · Post by **Bolien** » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:06 pm #192493

That's right, forgot it was your vision originally Lubermancer.
A thanks to you as well sir.

Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:52 am

Tele-gulag is great. Thank you so much.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:09 am #192570

What we really need are two additional boxes of prisoner IDs in HoS's and warden's locker. What I often see right now are prisoners stealing boxes upon returning to ensure nobody gets gulagged after them.

Lumbermancer · Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:12 am

Meta doesn't have such problem because prisoner console is in the brig proper, and gulag shuttle exit is just a short hallway outside.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:54 pm #192666

> Be HoS
> Declare that we're only using gulag as punishment
> Gulag 10 people, run out of ID cards
> Some of them try to murder me upon their return, they are going straight back into gulag
> Eventually use cameras to check on them
> Clockwork floors, clockworld walls, clockwork airlocks, traps and runes everywhere
> Cultist miners dug into gulag and found ten angry people, who want to kill security.
> Try to take gulag by storm, get fucked by runes and die.
> They get back to the station and summon Ratvar.

10/10 feature.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:37 pm #192678

I guess they really...CLEANED YOUR CLOCK.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:45 pm #192679

Yeah, funny thing is, if we just ignored them and let them do their own thing, we would have probably won.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:40 pm #192694

My face when everyone was bitching how tele-gulag would ruin security and turn sec into Hitler incarnate.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:41 pm #192696

They were right, you know, but it's not a bad thing. Cracking down on greytiders is a good thing.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:22 pm #192740

This is great, especially for dealing with round start shitlers breaking the brig windows in the first 30 seconds.

Pilgrim · Post by **Pilgrim** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:37 pm #192795

The gulag does seem pretty hard to storm if the prisoners get organized, so I have a solution: take a humanized monkey from genetics, attach a backpack with a toxins bomb, and send him to the gulag. Activate it either by timer or signaller. Alternatively do this with a live greytider you were going to gulag anyway. Straightjacket and muzzle them to prevent your plan from going awry.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:46 pm #192796

That is how you get banned

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:08 am #192811

Pilgrim wrote:The gulag does seem pretty hard to storm if the prisoners get organized, so I have a solution: take a humanized monkey from genetics, attach a backpack with a toxins bomb, and send him to the gulag. Activate it either by timer or signaller. Alternatively do this with a live greytider you were going to gulag anyway. Straightjacket and muzzle them to prevent your plan from going awry.

Sacrificing shitlers for the greater good of the station one max cap bomb at a time... I love it.

killerx09 · Post by **killerx09** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:14 am #192856

That sounds awesome, and makes the addition of the telegulag even more awesome.

Ezel · Post by **Ezel** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:12 pm #193004

InsaneHyena wrote:> Be HoS
> Declare that we're only using gulag as punishment
> Gulag 10 people, run out of ID cards
> Some of them try to murder me upon their return, they are going straight back into gulag
> Eventually use cameras to check on them
> Clockwork floors, clockworld walls, clockwork airlocks, traps and runes everywhere
> Cultist miners dug into gulag and found ten angry people, who want to kill security.
> Try to take gulag by storm, get fucked by runes and die.
> They get back to the station and summon Ratvar.

10/10 feature.

Shoulda just killed me when i stabbed you with a bone dagger since killing goliaths is the most easiest thing i can even do it with my fists

Alex Crimson · Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:17 pm

Can Sec retrieve gear from the Equipment Reclaimer Station? I just saw a HoS accidentally(Clown was involved) get sent to the Gulag, and they could not retrieve their gear without getting their points. Sec or command IDs should be able to take stuff from the Terminal.

Also Sec will need more IDs and probably an expanded Gulag with more gear. This Gulag thing is quite popular for disposing of station trash.

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:37 pm #193020

Alex Crimson wrote:Can Sec retrieve gear from the Equipment Reclaimer Station? I just saw a HoS accidentally(Clown was involved) get sent to the Gulag, and they could not retrieve their gear without getting their points. Sec or command IDs should be able to take stuff from the Terminal.

Also Sec will need more IDs and probably an expanded Gulag with more gear. This Gulag thing is quite popular for disposing of station trash.

Sec should be able to retreive the gear, I'll test it later to see if it is working like it should and make a fix

Pilgrim · Post by **Pilgrim** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:38 pm #193022

What happens to the cuffs a prisoner has on when he's teleported to the station?

Gamarr · Post by **Gamarr** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:58 pm #193035

Pilgrim wrote:The gulag does seem pretty hard to storm if the prisoners get organized,

This is somewhat a problem, with the shuttle/gulag itself having non-existant/bad security features with almost zero remote access to Gulag from Brig in any meaningful way. At most you can view with cameras. Using tools and an engineer, you can set up safety features but there is some basic stuff that just needs to be added (basically lockdown buttons, panic syphon/'Put the prisoners to sleep' switches, etc.) and just basic remote operation of gulag without requiring an officer to sit on his ass 24/7 there to be effective.

Tele-brig stuff for gulag looks great, but gulag itself needs mapping/mechanical love.

Lumbermancer · Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:18 pm

It's fine. It's fun. It creates interesting prison vs sec dynamics. Powergaming through design is not fun. There have to be drawbacks.

Alex Crimson · Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:21 pm

lzimann wrote: Sec should be able to retreive the gear, I'll test it later to see if it is working like it should and make a fix

Could just be derpy Sec. It is a new feature and all.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:03 pm #193061

Sec gets instant round removal, it shouldn't be easy for them to storm the gulag with all the prisoners in it.

Lumbermancer · Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:26 pm

Correct. And if it would be used by team antags to do their team-antagonism, even better. Even funnier.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:24 pm #193088

Lumbermancer wrote:It's fine. It's fun. It creates interesting prison vs sec dynamics. Powergaming through design is not fun. There have to be drawbacks.

Very reasonable post, if it is foolproof and airtight it removes the chance for interesting things to happen. Use perma/timed cells if you do not want to take the risk

Not-Dorsidarf · Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:50 am

Thats always been the point of the gulag. It's a great way to get shitlords off the station, but if you send too many people down there at once, it'll end up turning into a microrevolution on any officers dumb enough to carry on down

Oldman Robustin · Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:24 pm

When I first heard about it, I was pleased.

Then I realized how ridiculous it was. It's basically security's default for dealing with players now. There used to be strategies involving getting sent to perma and using implants/hidden uplinks/etc. to bust out. You could also get friends to break you out as well. Why is it so OP? It literally does security's entire job for it. It gobbles up all your items, even implants, and magically spits them out on the floor - giving you a 100% chance that the prisoner sent to Gulag is not a threat with absolutely 0 effort from security. Hell the stupid thing even warns security when someone finishes their sentence so they can grab anyone who actually does finish it and (assuming you want to treat it as perma) rinse and repeat. There's absolutely no rule against giving a killer a 1,000 point sentence, having them work the entire round to finish it, and then security is waiting for him when he leaves the ferry to do it all over again.

There's a balance to strike between security and antags, having the gulag become instant 100% safe punishment that is more reliable than anything on station means I would be an absolute fool to ever use a cell again. Even the most minor crimes would get a 50 point sentence if only because it makes it easy for me to find out if they were hiding anything without having to dig out every pocket/box/headset/etc.

I also don't like that I suggested this exact idea for REGULAR cells and it never caught on, but I leave for a bit and now suddenly we've got the system in place but ONLY for the Gulag. Even as someone who hates using it as a punishment for minor/moderate crimes, I'm hard pressed to ignore the convenience as HOS when I can instantly strip/sentence/secure a prisoner with a couple clicks whereas a regular sentence takes nearly a minute to carry out.

Why do we have this system for the GULAG, which just antagonizes the playerbase and makes security even more of a loathed presence, and not for the decent normal sentencing system that is much more flexible. I'm half-tempted to just go full Shitcurity when I play just to drive home the point that the shittiest way to treat most prisoners should not be the easiest, safest, and most convenient. I bombed someone last year for unjustly sending me to the Gulag, it's truly a shitty way to treat players... there is a massive difference between forcing someone to AFK for several minutes versus telling them they have to click rocks on their computer for 15 minutes or they will never leave. Either give this feature to regular cells or don't keep it for the Gulag, and either way don't make it a 100% risk-free way to dispose of everyone you suspect of a crime.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:26 pm #197042

^
Pretty much this, I enjoy playing security, but this is piss easy mode and far too abusable, I've seen officers gulag'ing people for breaking windows and stealing minor things. It's too easy to just toss them in there, ignore them for the rest of the round, there's no danger at all for security.

EDIT: mind you, I can't really talk, I generally just shoot greytiders on the spot when they break into the caps office/engineering/brig. So I barely use it as it is. Generally a flashbang followed by a 2-3 greyshit massacre either sends the masses into frothing revolution, or cools them to the idea of being shits real fast.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:27 pm #197043

That's pretty much exactly what I said about it when it was getting implemented

InsaneHyena · Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:59 pm

I'm still 100% content with gulag, as it gives me a way of getting station rid of shitlers and greytiders without murdering them. Don't get me wrong, I would kill them if I could, but for some reason being shit is not a capital crime.

Lumbermancer · Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:12 pm

Oldman Robustin wrote:It's basically security's default for dealing with players now.

That's why I originally suggested to have X number of telepods, and each telepod would be "occupied" until prisoner got back.

Oldman Robustin · Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:24 pm

If someone is truly tiding no admin would ever punish you for killing them as HOS.

I got executed for disarming a sec officers gun, running around the central hall, then throwing it into the brig during a traitor round. Was still told "Valid".

Alex Crimson · Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:51 pm

The Gulag sorts out the men from the boys. Most shitty griffers end up killing themselves rather than putting in the minimum amount of effort required to meet their point quota. It works great. There are a few Sec players that take it way too far and Gulag everyone, or abuse the point system with unrealistic quotas, but thats a player problem.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:10 am #197502

I dunno, maybe a point maximum for security dependent on rank, an officer can give you 250, warden 500 at max. HoS and cap can give up to 1000 or just infinite using some kind of banishment option. not real sure on the numbers, just spitballing here.

Would this be an idea worth considering? Might be fine as it is, I don't see the need myself, but if it's a real issue to others go for it, amiright?

Edit: kinda adds an actual benefit to following the chain of command for high crimes, while limiting the silent justice bagemtagembrigem type players.

Ezel · Post by **Ezel** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:05 am #197629

Make it cost bluespace crystals

Alex Crimson · Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:40 am

That doesnt seem fair. Bluespace crystals are not exactly common, and thats even assuming the Miners live long enough to produce anything at all. The Gulag is an effective way to deal with greytiders, i see no reason to change it. Although i do like the idea of limiting the points based on ID level. Hell, maybe even limit it to 500 max.

InsaneHyena · Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:00 pm

If someone is truly tiding no admin would ever punish you for killing them as HOS.

I get bwoinked every time I cough wrong, I'm not even talking about executions. "Hey, Insane, why did you gulag Pocket? He says he dindu nuffin, why would you punish such a refined gentleman?"

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:15 pm #197657

Weird. I shoot shitlers on sight. I've gunned down people for breaking into the bridge, for breaking into engineering or atmos. Hell, I've killed people over pushing officers for their taser. Proles gotta get with the progrom or get ded.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:32 pm #197659

Pushing officers for their taser is fair if they have it in hand all the time. They gotta learn to git gud some way.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:57 pm #197668

And they can keep it if they manage to stay alive duribg the ensuing manhunt.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:18 pm #197672

Reece wrote:Weird. I shoot shitlers on sight. I've gunned down people for breaking into the bridge, for breaking into engineering or atmos. Hell, I've killed people over pushing officers for their taser. Proles gotta get with the progrom or get ded.

Disarming a police officer in real life can and does result in supporting officers shooting the suspect. Real life police officers shoot people for having things that even look similar to a gun or dangerous weapon. Our rules for Security players are even more harsh than real life sometimes!

Post by **Atlanta-Ned** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:34 pm #197679

InsaneHyena wrote:
If someone is truly tiding no admin would ever punish you for killing them as HOS.
I get bwoinked every time I cough wrong, I'm not even talking about executions. "Hey, Insane, why did you gulag Pocket? He says he dindu nuffin, why would you punish such a refined gentleman?"

You're kind of a shitter though. Comparatively, I've made judicious use of the tele-gulag and have been bwoinked exactly zero times over it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Gun Hog wrote:
Reece wrote:Weird. I shoot shitlers on sight. I've gunned down people for breaking into the bridge, for breaking into engineering or atmos. Hell, I've killed people over pushing officers for their taser. Proles gotta get with the progrom or get ded.
Disarming a police officer in real life can and does result in supporting officers shooting the suspect. Real life police officers shoot people for having things that even look similar to a gun or dangerous weapon. Our rules for Security players are even more harsh than real life sometimes!

Yes, but your average sec officer shouldn't have anything lethal on them aside from a baton. And if you have the greytider in custody for stealing a taser, toss em on the gulag etc. Don't be looking for excuses to murder as security.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:46 pm #197687

>Not grabbing a robusting extinguisher from the nearest wall when someone needs to die

The robust man's best weapon in spess is all around you

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:20 pm #197690

Can't do the time then don't do the crime

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:33 pm #197692

Atlanta-Ned wrote:
InsaneHyena wrote:
If someone is truly tiding no admin would ever punish you for killing them as HOS.
I get bwoinked every time I cough wrong, I'm not even talking about executions. "Hey, Insane, why did you gulag Pocket? He says he dindu nuffin, why would you punish such a refined gentleman?"
You're kind of a shitter though. Comparatively, I've made judicious use of the tele-gulag and have been bwoinked exactly zero times over it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Gun Hog wrote:
Reece wrote:Weird. I shoot shitlers on sight. I've gunned down people for breaking into the bridge, for breaking into engineering or atmos. Hell, I've killed people over pushing officers for their taser. Proles gotta get with the progrom or get ded.
Disarming a police officer in real life can and does result in supporting officers shooting the suspect. Real life police officers shoot people for having things that even look similar to a gun or dangerous weapon. Our rules for Security players are even more harsh than real life sometimes!
Yes, but your average sec officer shouldn't have anything lethal on them aside from a baton. And if you have the greytider in custody for stealing a taser, toss em on the gulag etc. Don't be looking for excuses to murder as security.

I generally see it as 'don't give sec a reason to kill you' working as an officer is a thankless job, there's a very real chance that sticking someone in for a short sentence sees them murdering you in a maint hallway later because you annoyed them, if some greysuited shitwaffle breaks into engineering then he's planning to hack into other places, if he breaks into caps office he's after the gun, or all access, both of which generally lead to a shit cascade, the brig is pretty much the same. it's not worth the risk to just brig someone and then let them go because 9/10 they'll just take the slap on the wrist, do it again and then kill you when you try and stop them; killing them there and then when they do it cuts the shit cascade off at the knees before it can begin the downward spiral.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:39 pm #197693

Aloraydrel wrote:Can't do the time then don't do the crime

Especially when the time is AN ETERNITY IN THE DEPTHS OF HELL

Sidon · Post by **Sidon** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:19 am #197836

Aloraydrel wrote:Can't do the time then don't get caught

FTFY